Pollster.com

This race is about Obama and McCain. VP selections matter but not that much. I am not a big fan of Biden but I would support Obama unless he picks someone like Palin.

McCain's Palin pick is part of his strategy. Let the race be about anything but the issues. McCain will lose if the race is about issues. Did you notice that we stopped talking about issues after she was picked.

I don't think this will help McCain much. Palin is like a sword. She has two sharp edges.

The decision to pick Palin is the same decision as why Quail was picked.

Oh by the way. The Republican party didn't make history like the democratic campaign did. People actually voted for Obama and Hillary.

McCain picked Palin and didn't need the Reps' approval and they're taking credit for something he did.

They are so proud of themselves when it was obvious from their primaries that there wasn't a chance that the electoral process in their party would allow a woman president or any minority president in their party this year.

They're taking credit for it and acting as if they're the party of inclusion.

Robi, I think you mean Quayle.

He was that memorable

@Robi:
Don't you mean Quyale or were you thinking of going Quail hunting?

Yeah sorry the guy wasn't memorable enough to remember his name properly so I gave the bird some props.

If you really think (even just a little!) about it, the GOP is almost 25 years behind the times - the Dems got a female VP candidate first. No glass-ceiling to break there, except in the GOP.

A true maverick woulda picked Meg Whitman or even Carly. I mean, where else are the right-wing fundies gonna go?

If McCain had had the guts of standing up against his party's wishes, he should have picked Lieberman. Men..that is real history: The first person nominated as VP by the two major parties. The first ticket in modern history that has running mates from different parties, 50% socially liberal and 50% socially conservative. That ticket would have spelled: MAVERICK!!!! Now, given Palin's strong, and extreme, right views, I don't see how this is nothing but appeasing one's base. What a courageous man, what a maverick!!!!

This race is over. McCain just threw away the experience card, the qualification card, its the only thing he had left.

Obama 297, McCain 241

Amazing how Rasmussen finds 88% of respondents already have an opinion, and CBS found just 54%. And to boot, CBS had one extra day of Palin in the spotlight.

Seems to me that Rasmussen really wanted to define the candidate before public opinion could.

I love this blog -

hello everyone,

is it just me or was romney especially nasty towards liberals? they didn't sound very inclusive.

There's a reason Romney didn't win and you just saw it. Romney was nothing more than Steve Forbes with more votes; a shell of a human being; 1 dimensional on the economy like Giuliani was 1 dimensional on foreign policy.

Huckabee on the other hand would have made a great VP. Class act despite his policies.

If Mike Murphy and Peg Noonan think it's over and it's bullsh*t, the crack in the dike has already opened. There is a tectonic collision occuring underneath the veneer of republican unity during the convention.

I agree, Palin won't make much difference - McCain is already doomed - it was a desperate Hail Mary pass that was tipped before it got out of the quarterback's hand.

Even Rove is shaking his head.

I'm wondering - Palin's favorables are soooo low in a resonably honest poll. Obama had the luxury of a fairly safe pick that was generally very well received.

I expect that for the next 60 days the 'Publicans will be attempting to make it a campaign of personalities - and the Dems will try to talk issues.

But the 'Pubs have just handicapped themselves. Palin will be a non-stop fiasco.

RS - the fundamentalists and Christianists made it perfectly clear to McCain that they would be staying home if their interests weren't respected. Now they've turned on a dime and are totally fired up to vote for one of their own.

Obama could have had this too, if he had put Hillary on the ticket. Real enthusiasm from dedicated Hillary supporters. Instead he got zero bounce from Biden, a lot of Hillary voters who are holding their nose, and a bunch who are going to stay home.

But yeah, *McCain* made the dumb decision.

Romney sounded like pure evil made flesh! I've never heard him speak before, and wow - he gave me the creeps. Like he walked off the set of a horror movie and straight up to the podium.

You believe McCain is going to defend fundamentalist's and evangelical interests through the gesture of a evangelical vice president?... Really?... I mean come on really now?...

Ciccina:

It's not about a "dumb" decision for winning, it's about a "dumb" decision for the fate of the nation.

That's why people are so pissed about the decision because, god forbid McCain wins and god forbid he dies, this woman will be running the show and that's what scares the **** out of people.

Palin delivered her lines well, but it was one of the most scripted and disingenious speaches that I have seen thus far.

The real issue is that it did next to nothing to define Palin. I literally couldn't tell that she was on the ticket by her words.

I'm sure that the Republicans will respond well as this was filled with red meat and lots of attacks on their opponent along the decades old lines of higher taxes, bigger government and failing to protect the country.

The media (and non-partisans) however won't feel at all satisfied as they were really wanting to know who Palin is. So far the nation has seen her three times, and everyone of them has been Palin reading from a speech that someone else wrote, and that's it.

I find it hard to believe that they are going to put Palin out there as the attack dog, but so far that appears what they are doing.

Oh, and one other thing. I find it repugnant that a 4 month old baby with Downs Syndrome is being used as a campaign prop.

And here comes the conservative posters now with their praise!

At his age of 72 and after 2 bouts of cancer it is very likely John McCain will die while in office. Sarah Palin will become president and the terrorists will flock to our country since she admitted that she is not interested or knowledgeable about foreign policy. Any woman that votes for Sarah Palin has to be anti-choice and anti-equal pay. Anyone motivated to vote because of gender needs their head examined. This is nothing but a gimmick. McCain's first important decision shows his poor judgement. It shows that he cares more about winning an election than protecting our country. "Country First" is really "Republicans First".

OK, they have got the base in line. But will women and independents buy it? That is the crap shot. I personally don't think identity politics are going to work. This is an economy election not gender, race, heroism or any of that stuff. That was why Obama was trying to get the media to back off Palin.

He lost control of the message in the Palin frenzy. Maybe that is what they wanted.

This gal is for real. I don't think that I have ever seen a woman that can deliver a speech with this kind of poise. She is an inspirational natural. She is definitely comfortable on a stage in front of a crowd. The doubters will have to come up with a new line of attack. Small town rookie just left the building.

Hi I'm a doubter.

What are her policies again?

@Robi:
She doesn't make policies; McCain does. Her role as VP is to attack.

The base was already in line, enough so that it wasn't an issue.

Regarding swingable voters, there's an old saying in politics that I subscribe to and that is that you lose when you fight the last election. It surprises me that after such widespread dissatisfaction with the sitting president, and all of the chest pounding about terrorism and war that finally turned back on them in 2006 in a very clear way, that the McCain campaign would choose to define themselves in this way...again.

They could have pumped the maverick thing more, but instead we got Romney, Giuliani and Palin all parroting old generic lines that were mostly absent of fact.

They did effectively attack Obama on his experience, but having Palin do this will largely be seen as hypocritical outside of her base, especially by the media who are the only ones pushing that story, and this only sets the media up to challenge that.

I was really expecting to hear much, much more about how Palin would change the country.

And the part of the speech where the call went out to queue the "Hockey Moms for Palin" fake hand-made posters, and then the fake ad lib joke about the difference between a Hockey Mom's and pit bulls (lipstick) in response was novice stagecraft.

Brian Williams sounded pissed. He just listed like 5 things that Palin blatantly lied about, and took it personally as a member of the media by calling McCain's bluff.

@player

"This gal is for real. I don't think that I have ever seen a woman that can deliver a speech with this kind of poise"

Seriously...really??? cmon man, youre kidding right... Oh I get it you're talking about Hillary Clinton...

Player:

This isn't about electoral tactics for me. My question is for her role as potential president (god forbid McCain has something happen to him), what policies does she have that she will implement for the office?

I was also going to make a comment about how she blatantly lies about democrat policies.

What happened to the Reps talking about beating us on the issues?

How dare the press point out lies when they report the news to the public! They should be kissing the asses of Republicans for giving them viewers.

Umm, Romney, Giuliani and Palin all went much further than twisting facts, they simply made things up to attack Obama. Sure, everyone does this, but it was an overwhelming theme of their attacks. I really think that _most_ Americans have figured this out by now. You really have to come up with new things every few decades, especially when Carter and Clinton were the only two presidents since 1970 that experienced reductions in national debt as a percentage of GDP...and the worst of all was GWB.

voteforamerica-
Brian Williams was quoting from a Joe Klein editorial in Time. Check it out. It really hits McCain and Palin hard.
http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/09/angry_amateurs.html

I also heard Chris Matthews push back against the "left wing media" crap from the McCain campaign.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Barack Obama gives interview to Bill O'Reilly tomorrow night. Don't miss it. Now what is the name of the tune. Oh yea, it goes like this; Desperado why don't you come to your senses?

Player:

I commented on this earlier. This is the smartest thing Obama could have done. He's talking on Fox (which the majority of conservatives seem to watch) right before McCain's acceptance speech.

That is brilliant strategy in my opinion.

@brambster

They had to, they don't have anything else. Plus they have won 7 of the last 10 elections using this same playbook. - I love God, I love country, They'll tax you, FEAR !!!!! (soft/crime/terror, no experience, etc.)

Problem this year is the party of the have's is not in touch with us working people struggles. I was hoping to hear something in that direction tonight and didn't.

Thou I was disappointed with the Dems convention last week (they had a lot of good ideas but didn't lay out a plan on how to pay for anything, but the Rep. haven't addressed anything.

Obama 08 I guess by default

Chris Matthews really hates it when campaigns try to make their coverage, biased or not, a target of their attacks. Of course these attacks come from the absolutely most biased groups around, and it is a perenial theme now of the Republicans.

I really don't think it's smart to continually make the media your opponent when you are trying to deliver a message. They sure went overboard on this in the run up to the Iraq II, and it worked then to quash dissenting opinions, but that game got old too, and it's actually swung back around 180 degrees.

Evolve:

At a convention, you can't give a lecture about the detailed parts of the plan. Only what you want to do.

It is a rally to get your people behind you and giving a lecture doesn't do that.

They have it on their website if people are curious and they have the answers, it's not suitable for a convention though. Those things are long enough as they are.

Dems catch the daily show tonight. Can't miss stuff, Republicans double speak night.

brambster-
Judging from Matthews and Klein the media is not going to back off. If McCain goes ballistic then they will make that the story. Remember Obama's reference to temperament?

Evolve apparently you didn't get the message.

Down on your luck and without a job? Be a Patriot.

Hurricane ravaged your city? Be a patriot.

Can't afford healthcare? Be a patriot.

@Evolve

Honestly, it's a mistake to speak to policy and detail wonks during a nationally tellivised convention. Sure, thus far the Republicans have been 100% absent of any substance, but your messages have to be straight forward and easy to understand.

The Dems needed to focus a lot on healing the whole Clinton thing for two days, and Obama did lay out things he wanted to do in his speech, but it would have been a mistake to go any further. These guys all have sites where they list this stuff out item by item, but people tend to never read it. I do agree however that I can't recall any attempt to define anything for the Republicans outside of "winning" the war in Iraq, and that's a mistake when the economy is the biggest issue. They just spent 3 hours though trying to define their opponents, much of it shamefully absent of truth.

I do like the fact that a comedy show absolutely destroyed the RNC and its arguments especially the sexism thing.

@zotz

I think that McCain knows fully well how to handle his temper in public.

The real issue for the media is that Palin was such a surprise, and clearly has skeletons, and yet 7 days after her being picked all anyone has heard from her has been written by other people and presented to cheering crowds of Republicans.

Come next week, the media is going to be making even a bigger issue about not knowing who Palin is, what she stands for, and what she adds to the ticket (besides her gender).

FYI, I actually believe that Palin is nothing more than a pandering evangelical. She parroted the right lines in her run for governor, but she vetoed or refused to consider bills that would further limit the rights of gay couples and the freedom to choose. She also hasn't pushed for any social conservative programs yet as governor from what I understand. On the other hand, she did use her line item veto power to reduce funding for social programs primarily tasked with helping teen mothers, so maybe she just needs more time.

This certainly wouldn't be the first time that a Republican pandered to the radical religious right.

@Robi:
Could be; however, Barack is going to have to answer questions. If he tries throwing out his usual red herrings to throw the hound off the scent evasion strategy , it will backfire on him. He is going to be seen by skeptical conservative viewers instead of the usual adoring fans. They will know if he is faking. Bill Reilly isn't Brian Williams. He will be more assertive.

Bill O'Reilly is a Hack first of all and let me know if you want examples.

But what red herrings has he thrown out there?

Player:

I am also going to assume that you have just gotten into the race?

I'll fill you in. There's been this one and a half year long democratic primary in which Obama has gone through 25 debates as well as facing the presumptive democratic nominee Hillary Clinton.

Palin kicked the hell out of the media and the left. That speech was a grand slam. Watching the panel on CNN sit there right after ith there jaws scraping hte ground was priceless. Her and Rudy totally revealed the fraud Obama is....that was the best 1-2 punch in a long long time. I wasn't sure if we'd get a bounce, but there's gonna be a bounce...a big one....the media and lefts attempt to destory Palin failed....and she just wiped the floor with both of them. Ya'll can spin it anyway you want, when the #'s come out on this it will be super bad news for the nutty left and the media.
Olberman's expression was also priceless, looked like he got hit with a 2x4 and had no idea where he was. Even the nutty lady on Fox had no idea what to say.........as I said, the backlash began tonight....just wait for the #'s. She was tough and to the point....Biden has his wok cut out for him....

Spin away my liberal freinds, spin away....she just kicked your butts. I thought Andrea Mitchell was going to cry in shame.......and Campbell Brown looked like a moose in the headlights....

I love it................

Oh...and the fact Obama is now going on O'reailly.....they know they are in deep trouble. Otherwise he would avoid Bill like the plague.........Obama going on Fox's #1 guy? Ya, Obama knows he's in hit a big bounce hit..............he was totally exposed tonight!

Welcome back stillow.

It was only a matter of time until you chimed in

@Robi;
You don't know what a red herring is do you? A red herring is a logic fallacy. Obama is good at using them. Bill O Reilly is a hack? Maybe thats why he makes 50 million a year. I guess that is typical hack salary. Perhaps thats the reason Obama is going on his program. Wouldn't won't to be seen with a real professional now would he?

Stillow:

It's the best strategy ever and better safe than sorry.

Going on the most watched media source by conservatives on the day McSame is giving his speech is the best strategy for the Obama campaign.

Do the electoral polls really show desperation? Please.

@Robi
As O'reailly would say, your living in the land of Oz....he is scared....When Hillary was fading she went on Oreailly too in a desperate move to regain her momentum....stats show Oreilly is the #1 show watched among independents, not conservatives.....check your facts.

Player I know what a red herring is. I want you to give me an example of one that Obama has used against McCain smart guy.

Also, this is strategy and perfect strategy. O'reilly is a hack but people like you don't think so and Obama is going on to make his case right before McCain and that is great strategy.

Alex Rodriguez makes 27.5 million a year. Money=intelligence. If you get good ratings via entertainment, then you make money. Your logic is baffling.

Rudy said it best, whit eout the names and party and submit only the resume's......everyoen would take mccain over obama.

No one saw this butt kicking palin was gonna give tonight....the left is in a state of shock....just go look at the cnn panel right after..................classic media moment!

Stillow-
Congratulations!
The media is now officially the enemy!
But they aren't all wussies. Read this:
http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/09/angry_amateurs.html

Stillow:

show me the study

@zotz

nah, i will read it tomorrow....tonight i just want to soak the glory in....just gimme that much....you have to admit, as i did after obama, palin delivered tonight....no question about it....

Stillow:

You believe that O'reilly is a credible source?

You think your salary determines whether or not you're a hack?

I think Obama's decision to go on The O'reilly factor is excellent. Why not try to reach out to the right and explain his policies and his vision? I think a lot of conservatives will appreciate him taking the risk of being attacked by Bill to reach out to them.

I think Palin's speech was great..IF you are a decided mcCain supporter or hard core republican. Sorry guys, I'm really trying to be impartial here because I am just as curious as the next person as to how undecideds took it. Attacking community organizers was a HUGE mistake. Whether you are a repub or dem, these are people that work really hard to make people's lives better. They don't deserve that kind of mockery. And once again, nothing on policies. This election is about making the country better and solving people's problems. There needed to be much more discussion on the economy.

@Robi

i agree with oreilly baout half the time......so yes and no....but there's a reason he by far the #1 watched show....liberal spin calls hi ma hack cus he doesn't tow that line....but he by far has the #1 rated show on cable news....but im probably a hair above 50 on my agreement with him....

@Stillow

Is it "American" to hate half of the people in this country and what they believe in? Do you take solace in seeing people fail? You seem like one of those people that actually cause most of the problems and partisanship.

And besides that, you seem to be projecting.

The media loves this stuff. They never want it to be over. They took Hillary and pushed her all the way past the last primary when she no longer had a legitimate statistical chance past March. Do you really think they are going to do anything but cheer for Republicans and make a phenom out of Palin? They're absolutely killing in the ratings, the media loves this stuff.

You should also note, they hardly made any hoopla about Obama's incredible address in Denver past last Thursday. It was too good, and it went off too well, better than any other convention speech in history, for them to want to play it up.

The media does certainly have influence, and while they don't all act in concert, they to have a general push in their coverage back to things being a tie. I don't know that they can create a true phenom out of Palin with 2 months left, and I don't know that they can push Obama back down.

We'll see what happens in the polls with this speech and McCain's tomorrow. Everyone expects a Republican bounce, and Palin may well have inspired enough to cause that bounce, but the real question is will it last. While I didn't have low expectations for Palin, I do in fact have low expectations for McCain.

Actually I asked for the study cause he's not. So where are you getting your ratings info?

Stillow-
She did a great job. You won't hear from me until tomorrow. goodnight.

O'Reilly makes absolutely false claims from anything about ratings to his own positions on the issues. If you don't believe me let me know.

Obama's visit on FOX right before McCain's speech is perfect strategy. Unlike Hillary, nothing in their numbers shows desperation.

Along with zotz, she did an OK job (I wasn't fond of the absolute lies she pushed but either than that she didn't mess up).

What are her policies again?

@robi

She doesn't have any. They haven't given them to her yet.

word choice:

"but aside from that, she didn't mess up"

@ stillow

If by independents you mean staunch classists and conservatives. I'd challenge you to find evidence FOR YOUR 'facts.' And no, Murdoch quotes don't count.

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/billoreilly/a/oreillyquotes.htm

Umm, I believe Stillow voted with O'Reilly 90% of the time.

@brambster

Not tonight my freind....you cn spin and play your divisive games tomorrow. Big g'ment liberalism got an old fashioned beat down tonight....and exposed for what it is, everyoen got reminded why this country rejects liberalism....big g'ment, high taxes, etc....keep that stuff in europe wher it belongs...let them enjoy the double digit unemployment........

i cant wait for the #'s on this........

goodnight ya'll....overnight the left will get thre talkign point stogether so you can have them in the morning on how to try and refute the speeches tonight....until then....it was a mike tyson like knock out.

NICE

And there is no answer from the O'right

oh and before i leave, i know its a "thing" you guyshave on the left to hate Fox....since they are rated #1 and shows like oreilly stomp anything the others have......it really doesn't matter........keep whining about evil old fox.....afterall its part of that vast right wing conspiracy isn't it?

Silly silly little libs..........

goodnight

And proclamations come forth with no substance and evidence to back it up.

Ladies and gentlemen I give you the Republican party.

@Robi

dang let me go to sleep already....i dont have it bookmarked, it was a year ago when i read it on pew....i'll look for it tomorrow.....don't fall off that high horse your riding.

By the way China's Xinhua news is the most watched news agency in the entire world.

But it's run by the government. Does the number of its viewers make it credible?

so explain to me how you cross party lines with the speeches presented tonight.the seconde coming of the so called uniter has been exposed.mccain cares nothing aout uniting this country. he showed it tonight. of course tommorow he will try to make it seem like he does care, but if you truly say you ll put country first then why are you catering to one half to the electorate.the answer this is not country first. i used to this mccain was an honorable man. he has no honor.a man with honor fight for all. he figghts for himself. it is sad and pathetic that the only thing you can do is play dirty politics and you are supposed to be a man of integrity.mccain is not. i gave him a shot and he misfired horribly.he is a liar and a charlatan.and he is not one of "my friends".and to think there was a time i would have been suckered into voting for him. he is willing to win a election by perpetuating a hate filled speech that question anyone patriotism who doesn agree with him and the gop.it is sad. i will never have respect for mccain after tonight. shameful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC8BBIwrbLU&feature=related

@saywhat90

I would call it a mistake, but in reality, Palin wasn't prepared to give an inspirational speech about herself as they still haven't figured out how to define her as a part of the campaign, and it is too much of a risk for them to do that in what essentially is her coming out of complete obscurity moment. So they reverted to what they know and what is the traditional role of the VP, which is to be the attack dog. So they wrote her a speech and told her to read it, and that's what she did.

What I find disturbing is that very few on TV have pointed this out. Eugene Robinson on MSNBC pointed this out, and I believe that Rachel Maddow did to (which is more so expected of course), but that was all that I have seen so far, but I haven't caught much of CNN's coverage yet...and I don't allow Fox News on my TV, nor do I think there is a chance in Hell that they said anything bad at all about Palin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbX-2X7_h-M&feature=related

There are MANY MANY MORE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM_yMT5V8SI&feature=related

This is the worst one and even though Olbermann is on the left, you can't say this history has bias.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi42d3dKDsE

This one was a goody as well.

The editing sux a lot but it still makes its point.

Did anyone notice that Sarah Palin is now a self-proclaimed bitch? I assume that she meant that hockey moms are like female pit bulls with lipstick rather than male pit bulls with lipstick. It's worse to be a cross-dressing pit bull at a convention than a hot bitch, if you get my drift. At least in Alaska--and California is a write-off for McCain/Pit Bull anyway.

I'm just being literal, not liberal. I leave it to you analysts to decide what it all means. (Like being a bitch is a bad thing? I'm just saying she said it. Please don't bite me, dog!)

(Hey, THEY were the ones yelling Drill, Baby, Drill! during Giuliani's speech. Those evangelicals are nas-tay!)

@brambster

but from mccain the so called lets be civil candidate. i mean i know politicians lie. but he should be called on it . when you spout about honor and integrity .about how you have a greater sense of character you should be called on it. he is not an honorable person.and i m not speaking about his party. i m speaking directly to him. he is not a great man. great men dont sink to such low levels.yes i know the dems attacked himn too. but it was on issues and ideology. not personla attacks and calling those who disagree with you unpatriotic. before now i wasnt sure iwas going to vote. but i will vote even if the ballot box is at the gates of hell. i will do my damn best to get the vote out here in my home state. i do not want the same old nonsense that dared to question the patriotism of me and my fellow americans. today mccain honor died and with it any moral decency he claimed to have. i pray to God, he doesnt win.never done that before. but i dont want vitriol or lack of class in the white house. they showed obama no respect.and obama is not the msm so dont anyone give me that crap about he is attacking her too. he has never said anything about her personally or mccain that i can recall. in any case he has never questioned either palin or mccains love for america.and this insane lie that it was the msm who outed her daughter when she herslef announced and then she brings her son in law to be on stage. then you have the nerver to say this is a private family matter. hypocrisy. downright hypocratic.

I'm done with the O'Reilly posts.

Sorry I put so many on. There are a lot more but I'm not going to spam them.

The overall message is this:

I'm in college now doing my senior thesis on the application of neo-liberalism with the diplomatic relationships between China, Taiwan and the US (I don't have a snappy title yet). When I was in high school, I watched Fox News and I too believed it was "fair and balanced". I especially loved O'reilly as well because I thought that everything he said had to be true for all the same reasons Stillow and others have said.

It was only a year after Bush won re-election and my chance of doing other things than watching O'Reilly that allowed me to distance myself from the crap he spewed and then I saw clips on youtube like the ones I posted and that's when I realized that Bill'O is a liar and a jerk that constantly changes positions and makes up facts for ratings.

I kind of feel like I'm an AA member talking about when I realized alcohol was bad for me lol.

What Billy usually does is get the worst possible people on the other side of the argument or use the worst example of the opposition and set up a straw man argument.

It is also important to note that he goes after the far left (and people should keep them in check) but they don't go after the far right and even Bill claims that people like that don't exist. We all know that is certainly not true or else Obama wouldn't have had to get secret service protection earlier than any candidate in history.

My message is simple:

There may be arguments that have merit, but Bill O'Reilly should not be the source of those arguments nor should any fact he says be taken as true no matter how apparently obvious it sounds because that man has no credibility.

Obama is going onto the factor tonight (technically) but it is important to also remember that McCain has gone on SNL and the Daily Show and Obama has gone on the Daily show and the Colbert Report. Candidates go on ENTERTAINMENT SHOWS as well to try to put forth their message.

The numbers of viewers has nothing to do with the credibility of the show (look at China's news agency which is the most watched in the world). It is the substance and the ability for a show to be truly balanced and not only by proclamation.

If people want me to post clips of Fox News being completely unfair and unbalanced, let me know.

@saywhat90

I understand you completely, it's just that I'm not surprised. McCain 2000 is not McCain 2008. He is the establishment candidate, and his campaign is filled with the same people behind GWB. Palin's speech writer in fact not only worked for Dan Quail, but he also worked for GWB. McCain 2000 got his butt kicked by the establishment, so he joined it. He even changed his voting patterns to fall almost perfectly in line with GWB so that he could get the support of that establishment. IMO, McCain would have done better in 2008 if he actually ran against that establishment.

Regarding the projected un-Americanism, it's nothing new. Swift-boating is now a part of our language, and not even Medal of Honor recipients are immune to the hypocrisy.

And I've got news for you...it's only just beginning.

There are plenty of simple-minded people that vote. These people are shaped best with simple messages. Nothing is more powerful to the simple-minded than waiving a flag and challenging the patriotism of your opponent. This isn't just American, it's used all over the world as a way to defeat one's opponents in the name of nationalism. It makes it more than just claiming that one's opponent is on a different team, it's claiming that there is only one team and the other guy is against all of us. I really hate this part of human nature, but I am happy that not everyone prescribes to this, and I am very, very happy that for the first time in a long time, there is a candidate that fights back by not just claiming that he is also on that one team, but that we all are, and that it is BS to claim otherwise.

It sounds to me like you weren't happy with the retoric of the Democratic campaign, but when you finally heard what lights up the core of the Republican party, it scares you so much that you feel inspired to put it down. Me too, but I never forgot that this existed.

If Obama wins, and the Dems eventually get to 60 Senate seats (could happen in 2010 as it's another year with more R's than D's up for election), then that might actually change this Republican party dynamic. They might find that their single-issue politics, and the politics of hate instead of inspiration has finally found that it's day over.

Obama might not do a great job, and events might not be kind to his administration, but I am very enthusiastic to see someone that tries very hard to not paint everything as just simply black and white, and maybe this them vs. us thing can die down a bit so that we can focus on good things.

There's a reason Dick Cheney (aka "Edgar" by the press corps, after Edgar Bergen, for his relationship to Dubya the Dummy) specifically asks that Fox news be turned on and playing BEFORE he enters a hotel room he has rented.

(This was from a published list of requirements that are provided to hotels before Cheney checks in. Could be BS, but I'm willing to believe anything bad about Cheney, in the certain knowledge that nothing that comes out about him could be as bad as the stuff he's successfully covered up.)

Fox is infotainment for the muddled masses. Its number one because it's yellow and it smells bad.

Well, it played well to the party faithful and they are trying to steal the "change" clothing.

Politically, though, she's invited open season on her with the political grown-ups, not the media, let them get back to reporting! And she throws good jabs and hooks herself, some a little low - a little too low for a lady!

No time to do another makeover on her. Biggest problem is the Shrill in her voice. Hysterical surburban housewife mode!

She is not the kind of VP who will have President McCain's ear especially when he needs calming down.

2 mad dogs on the ticket!

As I wrote earlier "She's no Hillary"; "I was going to vote for McCain, but he's too old" have been expressed to me. To the question: what happens if she has to take over, if he dies in office? the reply I got: "they should have thought about that".

Republican leaning and Hillary Democrat middle class 30-55 year old moderate female reactions!

Obama is with Bill O'Reilly tonight, should be quite a contrast between a calm measured youngish President-in-waiting and John McCain. It's a dangerous one on one play, but hey this man wants to be President.

McCain needs to look at least 10 years younger tonight. I don't think even that will help him. I am sticking to my 2% post convention dip for McCain/Palin. Their base is already solidified and this is not being perceived as a middle ground ticket, I can see some loss on their indie and crossover.

Thoughtful please stop your gonna have stillow and player calling all the liberals sexist (anybody else find irony in that?)

but the thing is it will probably win them the electorate. because people dont get it . why would you reward the party who caused you harm with another 4 years. it is so insane its not even funny. i wouldnt vote for the dems if they had caused all these problems. oh well i will fight the good but even thought that speech was nothing more than personal attacks covered in patriotic rhetoric it will porbably change the dynamic of this race. obama may still win but im not so sure anymore. but i will give it my all to stop the mccain extreme right fake talk express.

Obama thus far has 260 electoral votes in his grasp (according to pollster). I find it very hard to believe that out of the 102 toss ups that pollster says is available, Obama couldn't get 10 of them especially with him leading in Ohio and Virginia.

KNOCK ON WOOD A MILLION TIMES!!!!!!

Her speech had been prepared over a number of weeks. She delivered it as well as she could.

Thisplays with Stillow and Player but nobody who was not already committed and indeedsome that were committed no longer are as committed. This has not played well with moderate and independent women.

Has anybody thought what would happen if McCain were to have a sudden heart attack and die next week, as horrible as that sounds?

This was a crazy pick!

Trying out some slogans for the Godly Oligarchic Paternalists to gnaw on:

(excited white male voice over)

Sarah Palin's the Bridge to the 20th Century!

Sarah Palin is The Change We'd Like to Get Beyond!

Sarah Palin has a wonderful Vision of the Past to share with each and every one of us who qualifies! (void in blue states)

(Everybody sing........NOW!)

Gimme that Old Time Derision!
Gimme that Oil-slimed Religion!
Gimme that Hard-line Division!
It's good enough for me!

It was good enough for Cheney.
It was good enough for Dubya.
It was good enough for Karl, and
It's good enough for me!

When you're a self-identified pit bull, doesn't "being vetted" take on a new meaning? What's her position on neutering pit bulls? Abstinence only! Woof!

McCain/Pit Bull '08 = Pit Bull '09? Bite me!

When the thrill is gone, the nastiness lingers on. If the R's get a bump out of Sarah Palin, it's a boil! Ouch!

Not even the slightest pretense of uniting anybody. Just a big fat FU2 from Lipstick Pit Bulls for Change. That's the speechwriting of the neocons we know and love! So classy! So civilized!

She delivered her speech well, but as we all know, just being able to make a speech does not mean you can govern.

Sarah Palin wakes up this morning with the same problems and questions staring her in the face.

P.S.
How's McCain going to top Palin? Can he be even more snide? Can he claim to be a uniter--vote for me and I'll never let Sarah off her leash again?

Nice would seem to be off the table, but maybe he'll spin it as comedy. Like "Hey, lighten up everybody! We're just funnin' ya! Like that ad with the two white girls, three phallic symbols and Barack, remember? That was just a joke! Racist, schmacist! I said LIGHTEN UP, DAMMIT! Get it?"

Sarah, you've struck a nerve. No, wait, I mean a nerd.

OK, who's up for football?

Publius

Sarah Palin wakes up this morning with the same problems and questions staring her in the face and quite a few new ones.

Sarah didn't go to sleep after the speech. She roamed the streets of Minneapolis knocking over trash cans looking for homeless people to eat.

I'm sticking to Sarah's metaphor like glue. Wait, that's a simile.

She's energized the Democratic base, all right.

I think that her speech was for the base: attack, attack, attack, attack the democrats!!! However, no plans for getting the country out of the ditch. Her speech was totally empty on solutions, full of poison thoug. I don't know how this is going to play with people struggling in this economy, who were looking for her proposals to improve the situation. Remember guys...this lady was supposed to bring the economic credentials that McCain lacks. I am not sure people were left with the impression that she understands the economy any better than McCain.

Time will tell; however, I think that her negatives raised after last night. Look, everybody that has being paying attention knows that Obama has being very respectful of her "situation," so I don't know how people will take her being quite mean towards the guy. Hillary could attack because her negatives couldn't get any higher. In addition, no one doubted that Hillary had more proposals for any problem in America than anybody around town, Is Bill around? So, she didn't have to convinced anybody of her capacity; however, Ms. Palin had to do some convincing, and I don't know if she accomplished that last night.

Her bite is worse than our Barack.

I think that this is exactly what Romney could have done: Attack, attack, attack, without having to convince about his economic credentials. This is why Hillary was effective attacking Obama: She was running on Bill's presidency accomplishments, promising to go back to those years, so she could focus on only one thing: Bring Obama down. Now, I think that Palin had to do both things: Convince the American people that she understands the economy, and has solutions for those precise problems, and bring down Obama. I don't know if she accomplished the first: The economy stupid!!!!

*The democrats have to call people's attention that the republican ticket is offering NO solutions for our economic problems, just the way like Hillary over and over call people's attention that Obama's speeches lack specific policy plans.

It was clearly evident that Palin's authenticity connects with the American heartland. Her words resonate because she says what the people are already thinking. She knows what problems middle class Americans face because she has lived the life of one. Her story doesn't need to be crafted by hollywood script writers to make it work. It works because its real and its believable. It's simply amazing how effective the truth is.

Carl 29

The speech was originally crafted for Romney!

The weakness for Palin outside her base she hasn't earned the credibility to launch attacks on Barrack Obama - very snide ones as she did not mention his name once!

You are right about her negatives particularly women!

Huge McCain mistake from rushed desperate candidate selection through to Introduction and acceptance speech at the convention. Has She ever been to one?

The only + is at least the base is rallied but I can't see indies or moderates buying into this.

Libs know that the only way they can overcome the Palin factor is to lie about her. We can thank God that intelligent people no longer rely on the failing liberal media to get honest information. People abhor the old MSM because they hate injustice. This is the year that conservatives can fight back and call them what they are, because the people are behind them. For a while, they'll scream like all naughty little children that finally get caught. But we can all hope they'll learn their lesson and grow up into responsible adult reporters of the news.

Its something beyond ironic to see the fans of the candidate who slimed Hillary Clinton suddenly getting the vapors when someone pokes holes in their own candidate. The Dem standard bearer abandoned the high ground months ago; you don't get to climb back up there just because its convenient. Kettle, meet pot.

I really think a lot of you just don't understand what happened last night. The GOP changed the narrative of this election from the Shining Knight against the Entrenched Powers of Evil, to Real America Defending Her Values against the Snobby, Sneering Elites Who Think They are Too Good For This Country.

This strategy worked in 1980, it worked in 1992, it worked in 2000. The Democrats woke up this morning to find themselves on the wrong side of populism. And every sneering attack by Chris Matthews, Keith Olbermann, and the small army of dormitory mandarins posting at DKos plays right into the GOP story.

[As for being "scripted" and "delivering the lines written for her" - lol. What do you think Obama is doing in his major speeches? Improv?]

She delivered the speech reasonably well, with 3 days rehearsal and a friendly audience. With the expectations set so low by all of the revelations and criticism during the last week she somewhat over-performed.
The real test is the next couple of weeks on the stump, it's a tiring, grueling routine and it becomes very easy for a rookie to make mistakes and to reveal their real ( uncoached) opinions. The McCain campaign will likely try to insulate her from the press and use her to preach to the choir ( the republican evangelical base) but over the course of the next few weeks I will bet the gaffes ( and revelations) pile up and she will be a net negative for McCain.

A liberal saying that a conservative delivered a speech "reasonably well" is a sincere compliment. Well done.

NeverMet...: only the GOP base (and apparently, you) are stupid enough to think you can successfully run on a "Washington is Broken" theme when your party has controlled Washington for virtually all of the past eight years.

So....good luck with that!

The vitriol the bitterness any body would think the country is about to have a civil war!

Independent and moderate people were so turned off by last nights 30 minute rant by Sarah P. Negative BullPit a heartbeat away from Maverick John McCain.

The Democratic Party is trying to renew the American Dream and the Republican Party is trying to practice sewer and gutter politics. She's a female loud mouth Dick Cheney!

Wait until you see the unfavorability ratings!

Liberals ALWAYS resort to name calling when backed into a corner. It's a survival response.

Ciccina:

Well said.

Only 3 percent of Americans indentify themselves as moderates. 62 percent identify themselves as conservatives. As long as McCain-Palin continue to appeal to the 62 percent, they'll do just fine. Some people just don't get it that Bush's disapproval ratings were low because he wasn't conservative enough. He tried to appeal to the 3 percent, which really didn't make any sense.

Palin did not mention that she was SELECTED by a few Washington elite that she mocked, while Obama is SELECTED by 18+ million ordinary people like you and me. When she was talking about corrupt policies in her state before her and in Washington now, she did not mention that former governor of Alaska and the current US president are Republicans. It was fun to watch crowd cheering for their failed policies in state and federal levels when Palin mentioned that.

She also did not tell the truth about hiring a lobbyist to get $27M from the congress and also supporting the Bridge to Nowhere before she opposed it.

She's the female version of Dick Cheney, promising more of the same failed policies.

Ciccina -

You are either high or extemely bitter that your win-at-any-cost candidate lost. Take your pick. Everyone on the planet who isn't a hillary supporter knows that Obama is the one that took the high road. Hillary was the one that resorted to low-ball tactics. There are plenty of independent people who back this up.

Anyway, Palin didn't reframe anything, you fool. All she did was lie and get creationists excited - not hard to do apparently.

Even today, the media is already tearing her a new one for lying so blatantly. What a joke she is - trying to compare herself to Obama. Yeah, magna cum laude from Harvard Law is comparable to Miss Idaho. Good one.

I expect a bounce from the repub convention - for Obama!

People are tired of the lies and the corruption from the pathetic despicable republicans - and this time the media is exposing them. Finally.

Poor Ciccina is still upset that Hillary isn't on the ticket - boo-hoo. Did it ever occur to you that Obama is the one putting "Country First"?? Once in a lifetime leaders generally don't last long - look at JFK, RFK, MLK, etc. Maybe he thought that Biden would be the best choice to GOVERN - should something happen to him. You know, someone with actual experience and not "tall tales from Tuzla".

Obama's choice wasn't one that would most easily win him the election - it was one that would help him the most in governing. Mccain's however is just an act of desperation by a desperate man. How pathetic that a candidate for the presidency in the last "superpower" has to resort to appealing to the knuckle-dragging lot that got us into the mess we are currently in?

Really nevermet?

- Care to wager on your statement? No? Yeah, that's what I thought. Another lie from a repub troll. Add it to the list.

-------------------------

I am so going to enjoy Palin getting her arse shredded by the media. The lies and scandals just keep on coming. It is amazing.

The gift that keeps on giving.....

Thank you Exxon John!

I guess NMAHL that was meant for me, unfortunately I was over reacting.

Early indications are that Sarah Palin's speech last night drove undecided, moderates and independents, indeed some McCain leans to Obama/Biden by a factor of 4 to 1.

What is worse there are life time Republicans, "petrified", that Sarah Palin may be a heartbeat away from a 72 year old's Presidency.

I can't see a way back for the McCain/Palin ticket.

Look forward to seeing your reactions to the polls this weekend!

Obviously we are just political junkies with very strong opinions. I have never heard any independent, middle of the road voter using the terms: Liberal or Rightwinger. Those terms are used by very partisan, ideological driven people.

Now, again I think that her speech should have been more focused on her, and her story and record, and from there talking about regurlar Americans struggles, especially economic hurdles, and the ticket's proposals to solve them. Taking some shots at the opponents of course but focusing a lot on a very strong economic, populist message. Remember that given McCain's own admission about his shortcomings on the economy, he needed a running mate who could bring that to the table in a very convincing way. I really don't think she achieved that last night. I think that the only thing people recalls is her attacking and attacking, zero plans for the economy, zero vision for the country. However, remember that I am far from being a "objective observer."

I think that last night speech would have being perfect for someone with very strong economic credentials like Mitt Romney, someone who didn't have to introduce himself to the electorate and had a very strong plataform to run on, his economic credentials. Mitt Romney doesn't have to meet the "economic threshold" in people's minds; the guy is already there. Can we say the same about Palin? I don't know. I think that these speech was perfect for the anti-Obama electorate, republicans, democrats, or independents. Nonetheless, I think that people were already in McCain's corner anyway. Just time will tell guys.

Yes, Ms. Palin is a very talented speaker. However, nothing she said changed my mind about any of the following:

*As much as I admire McCain for standing up to torture by the Viet Cong, that does not mean his disasterous, backword political ideas will work for our country.

*Spin it as she/they might, being Mayor of a small town does not a qualification for being a president make. She also seems to be slamming Obama for never having been a mayor or a Gov. of a state. Interesting because McCain has not done either of those things himself.

*"Tax and spend liberal" is a saw that the Republicans have been dragging out for thirty years-and sometimes it has worked. With a deficit like the one George Jr (and Senior!) created, I think they better find another line of reasoning if they wish to win this election.

*Note to the Republican candidates: the "success" of the surge has not changed the public opinion on this "war" (an occupation, actually) a bit. All "the surge" means is we have dumped thousends more young men and women to hold down the fort for an indefinite period of time in the endless occupation of Iraq. I am relieved that fewer of our troops are dying in that mess, but the "surge" is really no long-term solution. You cannot win an occupation.

Lastly, this bit about McCain being some empty-headed (or elitist) "celebrity" just does not fit. If 'experience" in our Presidents helped bring us where we are today, well then please save us all from "experience". I can see this shapping us as a very negative campaign by the Republicans-notice how in three nights they have not said much at all about what they plan to do if McCain is elected, they spend most of their time beating up on Obama. That might work if their incumbant was popular, but he is very much not.

If McCain wants to win this, he better start telling people tonight how and why he will not just be "more of the same".

Carl29

You have got it in one. They wrote the speech for Mitt, Leiberman or Pawlenty-one of the three and then rewrote it for her!

These guys forget +60% of the American people see Barack Obama favorably. she hasn't earned the right to diss Obama the way she did. That's the line at 538 and what I have found more than agrees.

Ok Daily Ras 09/04

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday shows Barack Obama attracting 47% of the vote while John McCain earns 43%. When "leaners" are included, it’s Obama 50%, McCain 45%.

This after the revised September Repub weighting.

I'm not buying any more moose meat! LOL Wasn't impressed with the overall speech last night. The 3 attack dogs before Palin did their duty in saying AGAIN, how much the Repubs hate Obama and Democrats. I thought the first part of her speech was good, family stuff, etc., but the second part was to reversed and really not her. And again too many attacks and not enough substance to understand exactly what the Repubs will do for me. Forget about Country First, I want to hear People First.

As I understand it, the Repubs will take us to war with Iran, Russia and whoever God wants us to fight. God, please help us in not electing McCain/Palin! :)

Please, please, please keep these liberal attacks coming! McCain-Palin have already received a bigger bounce than Obama-Biden after Obama's big speech, and MCCain hasn't even spoken yet.

Rasmussen:
Just 42% believe Obama has better experience than Palin to be President. Thirty-seven percent (37%) say Palin has the edge on experience. Again, most of the interviews for this survey were completed before Palin’s well-received speech last night.

And which one is running for President?

Incredible.

NeverMet

FYI: 42% is greater than 37% by 5 points.

Obama does not write his own speeches.

If Palin is more experienced than Obama because being Senator does not count, then she is more experienced than McCain too.

Give me a break! We had former Texas governor with huge executive experience (!) as a president. The result: a big fiasco. By the way, Texas is more than 10 times bigger than Alaska.

Obama showed he had better judgment about the economy, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and many other issues.

As if republicans were sincere about Palin's experience being greater than Obama's,.

Look at the clips from last nights Daily show where Rove is shown commenting last month about the possibility of Obama picking Tim Kaine, who was the governor of Virginia for 3 years and before mayor of Richmond (pop~200,000) , Rove says that Obama picking such a dangerously inexperienced running mate would send a message that he based his decisions purely on politics with no concern for the country. The accompanying clip of Rove from this week of Rove praising the pick Palin because of her "executive" mayoral and gubernatorial experience shows the hypocracy of that republican stance, purely political.

The other clip from last night of the Republicans visiting the Larry Craig bathroom was bit over the line but hilarious.

Where is Obama viewed +60% favorably?

Rasmussen (today): Obama is now viewed favorably by 57% of the nation’s voters, McCain by 56%.

Whom did you say? The Republican Rasmussen. The same person who since months ago has been pushing for Sarah Palin as McCain's running mate? Do you really buy into it? C'mon!!! Rasmussen is exactly the type of Republican that Palin is aiming at: Conservative evangelicals.

Sorry but people still haven't been able to answer my question:

What are Sarah Palin's foreign and Economic policies?

Experience for VP is relative. McCain + Palin > Obama + Kaine. Kaine would have been seen as picked to win Virginia (ergo "political" choice).

Hypocrisy is Obama ignoring Palin's Governor experience and his saying that as "executive" of his own campaign that he has more experience then Palin as Mayor of Wasilla.

The situation is that Sarah Palin has defined herself as a "pitbull with lipstick".

The American People want a Vice President

They want a capable Vice President particularly for McCain because of his age.

I have to tell you a lot of respondants found last night's speech "offensive".

VEEP picks don't normally matter that much in positive terms, but I think the "do no harm" imperative may have been breached not in the core Repub base but with the rest of the electorate.

It is going to be very interesting watching John McCain tonight, doing a talk and walk at the convention speech.

He didn't but that's ok. He's only made statements like that when people bring up her experience.

The Obama campaign has made it very clear that McCain is (or should be) the focus of the attacks and that the only argument they want to use against Palin is that McCain can't use the inexperience argument anymore. Reps are pissed.

Still: SOMEBODY TELL ME HER FOREIGN AND ECONOMIC POLICIES!

Robi,
To answer your question on foreign policy and economics:
She lives near Russia, landed in Ireland once, can read the word "Iran" off a teleprompter, and was good at securing earmarks for her town.

I'm satisfied.

She's a political strategy and not a candidate for the actual position for VP.

That's what pisses me off about this decision and people want to ignore that because they don't want to admit how horrible of a choice it was.

At the end of the day, if you win the election you still have to run the country and having her be the potential president scares the living **** out of me.

You may abhor her stand on the issues, but this pit bull in lipstick just hit a home run. She's the Republican answer to Ann Richards, and she is only going to get better and stronger with age and experience. The Democratic rank-and-file made a big mistake in underestimating her and using a lot of ugly sexist tropes in ridiculing her. I supported Hillary in the primaries, was disgusted by that sham so-called "roll call" at the Dem convention (did you know that before the convention, Hillary was only 17 pledged delegates behind Obama?), but was prepared to forgive and forget, hold my nose, and support the Dem ticket -- that is, until sexism reared its ugly head again. My prediction is that Obama's modest post-convention "bounce" will evaporate by Monday. The Democratic leadership and rank-and-file would do well to learn something from the Republican playbook: when their candidate was being attacked with sexist smears, they came to her defense and denounced the misogyny. Even if they did so for purely political purposes, it was the right move. Shame on you, Democrats! You really blew it, big time.

Look Romney is a jackass (and he did nothing to improve that image last night) but at least I understood why he would be picked.

I would not like his policies but at least I would know WHAT THEY ARE. Him as VP is a hell of a lot more reassuring than Palin. Disagreeing with policies and disagreeing with...well...the fact that Palin has no policies in foreign policy or economic policies is a completely different argument.

To put it this way, I didn't think I would have to say this crap about the Rep VP three weeks ago because I didn't think anyone would do such a careless thing.

I think the use of the sexism card is descpicable. I don't think anything attributed to sexism came from the Obama/Biden camp. By this same logic of political attacks = sexism that applies to Palin, I can use the same logic of political attacks = racism against Obama.

WOW! What a speech! I am fired up! I just...

*Made another donation to Obama
*Had my wife fill out the voter registration card that's been sitting on our kitchen table for two weeks
*Volunteered to work for the Obama campaign
*Took election day off to help GOTV

Way to go Sarah!

@Ciccina:
The fundies - Conservative Republicans - have always supported McCain 90%-5% or so. Look at the Gallup internals here:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/108049/Candidate-Support-Political-Party-Ideology.aspx

It wasn't like the Conservative Democrats ("Clinton Dems"?) who pre-Convention/Biden supported Obama 63-26. Post-Convention/Biden, that number is now 77-15 (same link).
[That also suggests that recalcitrant Clintonistas are depleting... Sensible people seeing the facts and making rational decisions.]

But as Brutus1_ said (despite the name-calling, which I don't like), Obama very clearly made his choice like a Statesman, unlike McCain who is the typical Politician (reversing Rove's prophecy). So much for McCain putting "Country First."

Mahler:

You are really calling the Dem primaries a sham? 54 contests and 25 debates and the only reason she might have been 17 delegates behind is because Obama allowed all of Florida and Michigan to be counted as a sign of good faith And what kind of sexism are you talking about?

I watched all of the primaries and debates so I would like to hear this revisionist take on the past two years.

Mac:

Were you describing Obama the KING of the teleprompter? I think Obama showed just how effective he is without teleprompters at the Saddleback forum--the perfect format for getting a true picture of the candidate's views by the way. And I suppose Obama's European celebrity makes him a foreign policy expert? Not even close to Michael Jackson.

Romney has foreign policy experience and policies? Since when? Romney was Governor of Massachusetts for one term (4 years) and CEO of 2002 Olympics in Salt Lake City. So he gets the nod on executive and economics. But foreign policy?

Or Michael Moore.

Well I think Mike Murphy (a McCain campaign strategist I think in 2000) said it best that:

McCain's best strength is no cynicism and this choice is cynical. You don't want to know what Peggy Noonan had to say about the pick.

They thought they were off the air (and they were but the audio was still recording) and spoke their minds about the pick and not the Rep talking points.

I really don't know if "mainstream" Americans will buy the idea of being mayor of a 5,000 people town is strong enough credentials for a REPUBLICAN to convince people that he or she is ready to turn the economy around. Remember that in the minds of most mainstream Americans, republicans messed up a perfect economy inherited from Bill Clinton in 2000. My guess? Sarah Palin's administrative experience in Wasilla won't fly beyond the Republican base and the anti-Obama voters. Did those people need some convincing? I really doubt it. This is exactly why I think that her speech last night should have been more focus on economic policy rather than personal attacks. Again, attacking the opponent is OK, but she concentrated too much on it and nothing on plans to solve the country's problems.

Hadn't you notice that Obama always tops McCain on economic issues? Well, this is a very democratic issue, domestic policy in general. There are some issues that Americans associate with one party or the other. For example, national security, terrorism, and patriotism with republicans; domestic policy, economy, education, health care, and diplomacy with Democrats. Don't you think that just by Romney's presence on the McCain ticket, the democratic ticket would have easily lost ground on the economic issue. I think so. I really think that after the Bush Administration mess, the Republicans needed someone with WOWING economic credentials. With all due respect, I don't think that Palin's economic credentials have wowed anybody beyond the base and the anti-Obamas.

EVERYONE SHUT UP ABOUT THE SADDLEBACK FAITH FORUMS!

What the hell is wrong with everyone? It is a FORUM and not a DEBATE. Jeez. I saw them and he wasn't marvelous but at the same time he was seriously contemplating the questions and giving heartfelt answers. Not a stump speech. I'm sorry but he's been in 25 debates and people think that if he couldn't debate he would have won against Hillary? Get real.

Obamanation still in denial that "sexism" is part of the Obama campaign. It may be cultural (American culture) but it indeed exists.

I will put it a different way so Obamanation understands: Obama himself compared his executive experience (campaign) to Palin's executive experience as mayor. Obama purposefully IGNORED her experience as Governor of Alaska. Obama was being DISMISSIVE of Palin's achievements, the same as Bill Clinton was accused several times of being DISMISSIVE of Obama (except Obama was implying racism there). Obama cannot have it both ways. He cannot accuse others of BELITTLING his accomplishments and then turn around and BELITTLE Palin's accomplishments.

Kiptin:

He had a policy that he debated and made it to super tuesday through the slew of rep candidates (omg am I defending this guy?!?!). And the Reps found his policy credible enough to have him around for that long. And that's the point. He had policies already that were debated a bunch so people could know and make up their minds about him. But Palin has by NO MEANS done that yet. VP debates will be interesting.

But people could argue that Romney's economics balances out the McCain ticket (although I don't like his policies personally) and Foreign policy experience isn't as important for him. But he still has policies that he debated and tested in the primaries as well.

Palin never thought about National economic policies or foreign policy.

Show me Obama himself saying that Bill is be racist.

You know what I've been thinking since last night, I think that now Hillary we work her heart out for Obama, for real. why? Man...she doesn't want McCain-Palin to win. Look, Hillary wants to be president, the first female president. Remember that Hillary will be turning 61 years old this November. Don't you think that Palin will have an easier time being elected after years of people seeing her acting presidential in a McCain-Palin administration? You bet!!! Especially if their administration is very succesful, which is highly probable with a democratic congress pushing a democratic agenda, Palin will take credit for all that and run on it. Wait for Hillary and Bill hitting the road for Obama like crazy!!!

I wonder why no one is talking about the elephant in the room, and by that I don't mean the republican party, I mean race/color. The Republican convention was the whitest event-- held in a hockey arena- with the headliner last night, a vicious hockey mom. Is hockey code for "whites only?" This country is still deeply racist at its core. the unspoken fear that the republicans will play on isn't the overt threat of terrorism that is their platform, but the subtle fear of race. In direct contrast to last night, the democratic convention was mixed, all races...
In some ways I agree, I wish Obama had more time in the senate and more legislative experience, but at least I can listen to him speak and hear an intelligent, thoughtful man who is attempting to come up with concrete ideas to fix this country from its past 8 year decline into a circus show. If he doesn't win this election it won't be his lack of experience, any intelligent person can see he has something to offer we haven't had in a long time, it will be the white neo cons fear of a "slave revolt."

And if he doesn't win, there may be very real rioting this time, unlike the last two elections where everyone (democrats) slumped home defeated and/or cheated.

being** racist.

Questioning someone's ability to be president is not being sexist or racist.

McCain's numbers will move after this convension. Trouble is it will be in the wrong direction. This speach last night was a turn off for independents.

srp777:

We don't talk about it because it's not about the policy issues of either candidate. I do find something with the Republicans saying that liberals are sexist (I laugh all the time cause I have a lot of clips of Reps including Palin calling Clinton a Whiner). But it gets us away from the issues.

So yeah the Reps aren't exactly the party of inclusion but that's what happens sometimes when party leaders say stupid **** (which everyone does of course no matter what party one is on). But concentrate on the issues because, eventually, racism and sexism can be transcended if people stick on the issues because people stop caring about a person's race or gender when they're livelihood is on the line.

DISMISSING PALIN'S EXPERIENCE IS NOT SEXISM! Every speaker last night dismissed Obama's experience, and told outright lies about him. He was just a community organizer? Since when is that a bad thing? Obama has sponsored (with bipartisan support) some major pieces of legislation dealing with ethics reform and nuclear proliferation. Palin said he wrote two memoirs. Yes, they were being dismissive of his experience. It wasn't racism. Just the typical divisive, negative politics that we have seen from the Bush, Cheney, and Rove team for the last 8 years. A torch being passed onto McCain, Palin, and Schmidt.

Palin's speech was well-delivered but a missed opportunity. She didn't give the American people anything to talk about except her family, which they will continue to do, in their homes, on talk shows, in hair salons, in churches. Too bad.

I thought McCain had more on the ball. He would have changed the conversation if he had pivoted to an "energy policy" campaign and integrated Palin into it (or, better yet, made her the leader of the policy team). No chance of anything that intelligent coming out of the McCain campaign or the Republican Party. What a bunch of idiots.

Robi?
As you already know, I never called it a debate.(mis-characterizations are a typical lib thing to do) And what we've seen in recent years have been debates? Get real. Nothing but attempts of the MSM to find a gotcha sound-bite from the republican ticket. And what percentage of Americans still call themselves people of "faith"? So trying to make the term seem derogatory is rather ridiculous. The questions asked wnet far beyond faith issues. You're just sorry that Obama does so poorly without notes. Stop crying.

Robbi,
You spell as well as Quayl(e) did.
On the issue of Palins accomplishments in two years as Mayor turned a city with a balanced budget into one with a 22 million defict.
Is being invesigated for putting prssure on the state police chief to fire her Brother in-law and then firing the Police chief when he wouldn't.
Opposes birth control( in favor of celibacy).
Result teenage daughter pregnant. out of wedlock.
Did I miss any of her major accomplishments.
Oh I assume she is supporting Begnich for the Senate since she believe Stevens is a crook and she is a reformer.

Racism goes beyond rational. We are trying to rationalize things from different perspectives; however, there is nothing rational about discriminating against someone based on the color of his or her skin, or gender, or sexual orientation.

*I also have been thinking about the "hockey thing," but decided not to give it too much thought because we are talking about Alaskans. I'm trying not to act paranoic.

Incredibly, the Republicans are now crying "sexism." I hope they cut that out soon. It shows how bankrupt the party is. Depressing.

Sarcasm from Roger Simon-
Check it out. Very funny!

"On behalf of the media, I would like to say we are sorry. On behalf of the elite media, I would like to say we are very sorry. We have asked questions this week that we should never have asked. We have asked pathetic questions like: Who is Sarah Palin? What is her record? Where does she stand on the issues? And is she is qualified to be a heartbeat away from the presidency? We have asked mean questions like: How well did John McCain know her before he selected her? How well did his campaign vet her? And was she his first choice?
Bad questions. Bad media. Bad."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13143.html

Well, for all the bluster about the "Angry Left", we sure as hell got a good dose of the "even-tempered Right" last night. And when I say even-tempered, I mean it in the way that a starving, cornered and wounded animal is even-tempered.

Also, not to go unnoticed, but someone who calls themselves "Never met an honest lib" is clearly not too angry :)

TUESDAY NITE CONVENTION RATINGS, 10 PM ET

FOXNEWS 6,179,000
NBC 4,468,000
CNN 3,220,000
ABC 3,098,000
CBS 2,928,000
MSNBC 1,590,000 (great job Olberdumb!)

Let's talk concrete ideas we're supposed to BELIEVE in...

Higher taxes
More Government
More entitlements
Higer minimum wage
Small business failures
Loss of jobs
Loss of dignity...

Even FRANCE has moved to the right this year. You libs just don't get it. Your socialist ideas don't work.

OK I have to address this to NVAHL. Putting words in an opponents mouth is what conservatives are known for first of all cause I never said that you called the forums a debate. I was making a point that about how people say that Obama is going to lose the debates because the saddleback forum is an indicator which I think it's not because there is no DEBATE going on.

I'm not being derogatory about faith and I put the words in caps because it was a forum about one's faith in their lives rather than stump speeches. So I was actually giving faith a lot more credit than you apparently give it.

Also, I love how the right has made it almost like a conspiriacy of the "left wing media" which happens to include everyone except for Fox and the Wall Street Journal (only since Murdock bought it). It's like China's people calling all the media except for theirs "Western media propaganda." I have the same response to both groups, grow up and stop crying about bias and argue issues with facts and not fabrications of facts or political positions like Palin did last night.

Lastly, "NevermetanhonestLib" is the the best name to have a debate with people who don't agree with you and your eagerness to misread my statements shows how trivial you want to make this election rather than about the issue.

Oh by the way:

What is her foreign policy and Economic policy? I would really like to know cause we have two months left.

I am a middle of the road Independent voter & the speech just didn't do it for me. I was left with no clue as to what Sarah Palin envisions for our country. Things she did accomplish:

1. Attack on Obama - Her attacks seemed a little desperate to me.
2. Reaffirmed what I feel about the Republican Party - That today's Republican Party is out of touch with what most American's need & want. We want a little hope and change. Not a "culture war."

I'm sorry to say but she just didn't do it for me. I wish she could have shared vision, but she only revealed the desperation of the Republican Party.

One thing the Republican Party needs to understand is that many of us American's don't mind paying higher taxes if we get something out of it. I'm so tired of the Republican need to create "wars" on everything. "War on Drugs", "War on Terror", ...now "Culture Wars?"

Come on...how about a little "hope?" How about focusing on the things that matter? We can talk all we want about "family values" etc...but the only way family values are going to improve is if the American family can begin to breathe again...that we know that our financial future is solid and that our taxes are going to good use rather than being shipped out of our country.

I'm not against Palin...but I'm against the silliness of the Republican party. Us Moderates will lean toward the left because...it just makes more sense.

correction:

"Nevermetanhonestlib" is NOT** the best name

As opposed to the bangup job Bush and company have done these last 8 years, right Never? You know, like squandering inherited surpluses and getting us into a war that was completely unnecessary, trashing the constitution in the name of national security, injecting politics into both science and the hiring and firing of US district attorneys (as well as many other branches of govt that are supposed to be independent), and running up the deficit faster than any other administration in history.

Looks like the ideas you mention are quite the lesser of two evils, thank you very much.

Liberalism and secularism are the cancers of America. I'm angry about the disease, not those inflicted with it.

I'm sorry but have I been living under a rock or have we had a Republican President for almost 8 years? And a Republican congress for 6 years? Congress can't get anything done if the pres. vetoes and vetoes without an override majority (which we don't get a lot) and the Reps think that Democrats have been in power this whole time? SHUT UP!

Why am I hearing last night was not non partisan enough? Are you kidding me? Did everyone forget its a GOP convention? And I guess everyone missed the DNC convention with all of its partisan speeches? The left defines non partisanship as the GOP caving in.....its pretty lame logic.....just my two cents.

Dear NeverMetAnHonestLib,
Pray do tell, how should one keep up an expensive war and NOT raise taxes...?
How is launching wars NOT bigger government. How is the Bush administrations infringing on it's citizen's privacy NOT bigger government in action?
Loss of jobs? What have the unemployment rates been under Bush's administration...? Economy, mortgage crisis,loss of a middle class...
And loss of dignity? THat started eight years ago when a man who can't speak the English language started to run our country...

Veto means that Congress needs to work together on a bipartisan basis. What is wrong with that. You are just angry because the Dems cannot push through their agenda without making compromises.

BOOSH

"Veto means that Congress needs to work together on a bipartisan basis."

Yes, I'm sure that's the definition of a veto.

And Bush went what about 6 years without a veto? He should have started using it DAY ONE. That's why his popularity went down. And if I'm not mistaken the Democrat congress's approval has always been lower than his.

While I guess having questions about a virtually unknown that might lead the country, make me a sexist, here is what we do know about Gov. Palin. She's supposed to usher in an age of transparency. (She hasn't met with any member of the press since she was chosen). She's supposed to be a reformer. (She hired a lobbyist firm to secure $27M in earkmarks for her town, she was for the bridge to nowhere before being against), and she's a corruption fighter (under investigation in Alaska for ethics violations, trying to stall investigation). These are cold hard facts. Nobody on the right has made any effort to address them.

I did not hear anything that would lead one to believe that the GOP is promoting a "culture" war, unless you mean going after the liberal media. I heard family, small-town values, energy independence, etc.

Whereas, Obama is outright pushing "class" warfare.

NeverMetAnHonestLib-
FRANCE!!! Did you mention France?!!! I hate France!!! Because they hate America! They hate us for our freedom! That is why they gave us the Statue of Liberty! We should remame it the Statue of Hating France! Vote for Sarah Palin! When she is president she will bomb France!

Sarah Palin will wipe out the Liberal Elite!
And the French too!!!

Obama is pushing class warfare?

Some of you miss the point. All politicians have baggage. There isn't one alive who doesn't. Clintons have it, the Bush's have it, Reagan had it, Kennedy had it, Nixon had it....and yes, Palin has it. Politicians only survive on there ability to connect with ovters.
Last night the teleprompter broke. She still delivered a near flawless delivery. She is a gifted communicator which means her baggage does less harm as it did to other gifted communicators like Hillary for example. She connected last night, came off funny, informed, personal and yes, threw some heavyweight punches.
Can anyone imagine Obama with a broken teleprompter at his speech? It woudl have been 30 minutes of "uhhhhh".....not comparison.
Palin delivered a knock out speech last night....I promise you, Obama is worried....don't be surprised if Biden suddenly comes down with an illness causing him to withdraw.............

Never...

M.Sarkozy maybe a French conservative that is about where Mr Obama is politically. Sarkozy would be strung up if he messed with their health service free at the point of demand etc.

OK no real movements in trackers today;
Rassmusson is 50/45
Gallup is 49/43

Interesting piece on swing voters on the Gallup site, here is some of it, maybe Mark or one of the pollsters could confirm or offer alternative thoughts:

"At this point, 42% of registered voters say they are certain to vote for Obama, up from 36% immediately before the convention. Thirty-seven percent are now committed to McCain, up slightly from 34%. Thus, with 79% of voters committed to one candidate or the other, 21% are "swing voters" who could vote for either candidate or for a third-party candidate.

Who Are the Swing Voters?

Gallup's research on swing voters has shown that, not surprisingly, political independents and moderates are usually among the most likely voters to lack a firm commitment to a candidate in a presidential election. In the latest poll, 34% of independents and 33% of moderates can be considered swing voters, both of which are well above the national average of 21%.

Beyond those groups, the types of voters more likely to be swing voters have varied across elections. This year, older voters tend to be more movable, as 28% of those 65 and older are not committed to a candidate at this point, compared with 16% of 18- to 29-year-olds, 20% of 30- to 49-year-olds, and 19% of those aged 50 to 64."

Jen...
If anyone on this forum thinks of themselves as a middle-of-the-road independent they're in denial. Now thats really believable.

Cold hard facts? You completely misrepresented the Alaska ethic investigation and instead only repeated Obamanation talking points.

Bring up lobbyists and you bring up the pork that Obama and Biden brought home and their voting record for special interests, which far outshadows Palin as Mayor of Wasilla. Remember Obama is the "change" anti-lobbyist candidate, who used to be for "earmarks" and "worked" with lobbyists before he was against them?

Regarding access by press. Hmmm. Palin introduced Friday as VP choice and she has to get ready for the GOP Convention which starts after the holiday weekend (and throw in a hurricane)-- where she will be "introduced" to her party. You will have a gripe after the convention ends, but now it is really irrelevant for Obamanation and the media to be whining now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-QevraCQUc

Just a little comedy...

@thoughtful

Curious, do you still think the bounce will be -2?

How can one tell where Obama is politically? He has several positions on singular issues. Sometimes three in one week (e.g. Israel/Jerusalem). I consider one of Obama's greatest weaknesses to tell people what they want to hear and not stand by any principles (even if I disagreed with his viewpoint.) Shows lack of strong character.

I love it how Kiptin, NMAHL marctx and player all just make outright assertions that aren't true. Yes I'm using a nice term for calling you liars.

For Kiptin:

About the Obama talking points:

I can tell you that's not what the meeting of the left wing media yesterday was about. NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, CSPAN, the NY Times and everybody else got in a big room yesterday and we all decided that next week's talking points would be about how John McCain likes stem cell research because he likes to eat aborted fetuses. Not what you said.

Thoughtful:

You are exactly right, but moving to the right is HUGE for France, don't you think?

@Carl29:
I thought that you were more intelligent than to began touting conspiracy theories.

McCain/ Palin -

Dumb and Dumber.

Let's see, we have one guy who finished 894/899 in his class and by many reports should have flunked out of college if not for his admiral father - gee, who does that remind you of??

And now this genius picks a University of Idaho alum who believes in creationism and that climate change is not man-made, and that our army is doing "God's work".

Great work retardlicans, good job solidifying the "Americans are stupid" stereotype around the world. Of course after GW Bush, that stereotype is never going away - especially when the world knows that half of Americans voted for him - twice.

@dear player: What is my "conspiracy theory"?

@Robi

Its obvious media consort with one another. I record and watch the coverage from all 3 cable channels, fox, msnbc and cnn....right away the lady on fox, i cant remember her name, but its the liberal lady on the panel, right after the speech said it was just a speech written by bush writers.....the cnn libs said the exact same thing right afterward....both sides defiantely get talking points right away from some source....

I'm glad Palin illegally disclosed troop deployment information to push her political agenda rather than supporting the war which is ironically part of her parties agenda. Very interesting that Beau Biden didn't make this same mistake. Perhaps he's more qualified.

The campaigns (in this case the Obama campaign) email/text these "analysts" constantly, even when they are sitting there on air. Notice the laptops the CNN crew uses. In the old days, it used to be faxes.

Stillow

Sorry, Sarah Palin played well for you, but I have to tell you where it really matters; with the undecided who watched, she has more or less repulsed them to Obama/Biden.

Palin was overwhelming and over-reaching in the second half of the speech which was written by a man for a man. Just a lot of bluster!

Sarah Palin defined herself as a "Pitbull wearing lipstick". I think the American people want a Vice President.

PS viewing figures were a tad over 20 million, I think, that might help as MSM on the whole were impressed, so the ticket might get 2nd hand support!

Perhaps I'm wrong, but didn't I hear Gregory admit on his panel after Palin's speech that they never questioned who wrote Obama's last week? It sounded like he was saying there may be a double standard. I must be wrong.

@ Stillow
You should work for McCain/Palin. I pointed out facts about Palin. You diverted with attacks on Obama.

Misrepresented the Alaska investigation, how? Even the investigators say she isn't cooperating. Trying to have the investigation transferred to a panel of 3 of her political appointees.

Nice try, on the "she's too busy to talk to the press". Six days and counting.

Stillow:

Wait, the anchors or the obvious liberal commentators? There are also obvious conservative commentators that say the same thing people on FOX say.

Plus, I've tried to not watch the commentary anymore for this stuff cause it's absurd and even I said that Palin had speech writers on this forum. It's not talking points, it's common sense.

The commentators are recognized as supporters of whomever so it's not like they're trying to say "these people are objective".

Kiptin-
"I consider one of Obama's greatest weaknesses to tell people what they want to hear and not stand by any principles (even if I disagreed with his viewpoint.) Shows lack of strong character."

In his speech Obama berated McCain’s repeated calls to “drill more, drill now” as “a stop-gap measure, not a long-term solution. Not even close.” He told the truth to a public that is on McCain's side on this issue.

That shows character. Why don't you shock us and say something truthful.

back finally from paris. you might be happy to know that the only real american news they get is entirely controlled by cnn and the NYTimes. is there any question then about the EU's love affair with our campaign executive wiz kid?

FYI: I wrote in this blog a month ago that mccain would take Palin. why did no one else figure this out? logic bellowed in my ear. But cnn was caught with its pants down making love to obama in the hay.

No wonder they lit into her as did others, for the most reliable news they f-cked up big time.

more of palin later. but let's get back to the news and what's really going down.

i also said that obama COULD not take biden for some rather ugly tidbits. He made the wildly political and obvious choice to plug his experience and foreign policy hole, one that even you wacky folks have to admit to which is why you are breathing a collective sigh of relief. duh.

but let me remind you that i warned of a storm brewing over his brother and son's illicit doings in the hedge fund arena with indictments looming.

how did i know about palin and how did i know abut biden long before you do or did? i'll tell you later. HINT: what i know is all out there.

that obama didnt vet this this before he named biden and that the MSM didnt report this before or after makes my skin crawl.

oh right, bristol is prego. big woop. the real question is to what extent obama and friends are in bed with the media and were able to tape shut the media's mouth. how on earth could i have blogged this weeks ago even before the pick and it never made news ..that is until now???

so let me give you another tidbit ahead of the revelations to come; biden was not fully vetted by obama's team of 300 because he was desperate to play the foreign policy card.

obama is lousy researcher and 'decider'. but there is more.. he he. it most likely will soon be found that what took biden down last time he ran for president, plagiarism to be exact... will come back to bite him again.

i have been right way before and gave you all the head's up then... let's hope i am wrong tihs time. EXCEPT i'm not.

palin rocks. republicans show dems what women's lib is and make them eat crow. michele, obama and hllary never wrote their speeches either and michelle was so coached she was slick all the way down to her hand motions.

obama kids are nice little well groomed smart kiddies and as much props as carrying out your special needs child. she was sending a message t0 REAL america not private univ of chicago primary school for rich smart kids america.. but america with learning disabled, adhd, downs kids, autistic, yeah real time america that she's working for you.

i suggest to all you angry jealous women out there not to play the sexist card because sarah palin has more chutzpah than you do.

maybe you should look at your own lives and be proud of your achievements and join her to put a stop to the hideous bigotry that derailed hillary. because if you dont it will continue to derail you and your lives too.

Stillow

Bounce:

I am 95% confident of a bounce/dip between +2%
and - 6%.

McCain is going to do an informal walk and talk sort of "Town Hall" so I am led to understand.

Palin has solidified the base and brought enthusiasm, there was very little before.

@thoughtful

Couldn't be more wrong.....wait for the #'s......next week its gonna be me who the i told ya so moment. She has obama worried and the left is freaking out.....she connected with voters.....exposed obama for the doubletalker he is.
You can spin in it now......she was effective and there's gonna be a bounce, i will not be surprised at all if mccain pulls ahead a couple of points. I know your side is in a total state of denial right now....but time will be your healing....

@mac7396

She shoudl ask for the investigation be moved to someone else...the guy leading it is a staunch Obama supporter....you don't see a conflict of intrest there?

NeverMetAnHonestLib -

Liberalism and secularism a disease? :-P That's one of the funniest things I've heard in a long time :-)

I think it wild that you feel that considering that if Conservatives would have had their way throughout the history of our country -

- blacks would still be slaves
- women wouldn't be able to vote
- Sarah Palin surely wouldn't be able to run for VP (the liberals led the fight for equality if I remember correctly...and the conservatives finally are feeling ok about that one.)
- HIV/AIDS patients would have been exiled
- Gays would continue to be ridiculed and misunderstood.

I think the worst disease at all is living an isolated life - viewing the world in blacks & whites - and fearing what one doesn't understand.

I agree that certain things have gotten out of control, but to say that liberalism is a disease...you just need to educate yourself a little more.

Stillow:

Not my side, I am only relating an opinion based on what I am finding.

"do no harm". Pit Bull who wears lipstick- really.

got to go fishin

U.S. Census FACTS: Wasilla, Alaska

Est.2007 2000 1990
Population 9,780 5,469 4,028

Palin was mayor 1994-2002. Pretty fast growth for a small town anywhere, let alone Alaska.

Did someone say McCain needs to win Michigan? Here's the reaction to Palin's speech from MI independents. Read it and weep!
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/michigan-indepe.html

Heheh, you guys still do not get it!!!

I'm trying to think back, I can't remember a time when the left was scrambling so hard.....they knew they would get creamed by Reagan...so that didn't count....the left is scrambling around. your denail is setting you up for a huge state of depression when #'s start coming in next week....

Please jenjenjen... Review your history.

For example, Mostly western states gave women the right to vote WAY BEFORE the 19th Amendment (1920). Check out how many "conservative" states made the list.

1869 Wyoming
1893 Colorado
1896 Utah and Idaho
1910 Washington State
1911 California
1912 Oregon, Kansas, and Arizona
1913 Alaska and Illinois
1914 Montana and Nevada
1917 New York
1918 Michigan, South Dakota, and Oklahoma

Stillow-
We think that we won the 2000 election. That's the reason for the anger.

Hey... zotz, why don't you "shock" me and quit the insults? Obamanation has never been able to be civil in any discussion with someone who is not in lust with their candidate.

Stillow
Sorry to say but the fact that Palin focused most of her attention on putting Obama down..I'd say that the Republicans are scrambling.

I'm voting for Obama and I'm not worried at all. I was rejoicing when McCain chose Palin :-) :-D It was a completely desperate choice. She seems like a sweet woman, but they are done...oh you eternal optimist you...

Did I read that right - Stillow says McCain's Convention bounce will be between +2 & -6%?
That's just like his Hero, Senator McCain: Support the Surge, but CYA on whether it will succeed:

thinkprogress.org/2007/01/21/mccain-small/

[That actually has a MTP clip.]

Republicans need to present some policy soon. People are making up their minds right now. It is a great temptation to simply attack Obama, but it doesn't move undecideds. McCain needs to get his butt out there tonight and give people something to vote for.

@KipTin

That's because they started registering pit bulls as citizens and preaching abstinence-only. She wasn't kidding about the hockey mom thing.

KipTin

The Western States have always been a little more on the Moderate side...but you surely don't see the hardcore conservative states on that list...

where's - -

Texas
Virginia
Georgia
Most of the other southern states
Most of middle American states

Most of the states that you listed are moving more and more to the left/moderate. But there are very few hardcore conservative states on your list.

I'm not trying to put conservatives down...I'm just stating that it is silly to say that liberalism is a disease. It would be just as silly to say "all conservatives are Neo-Conservative" and that their movement is a sham. Both sides have done wonderful things for our country.

Policies....heh, you guys always claim no one talks policies....thats because unless the talk is about raising taxes and making g'ment bigger, you don't see it as discussing policy.

Gallup is out with its tracking poll:
yesterday, Obama 48 vs. McCain 43
today, Obama 49 vs. McCain 42

So far nothing said on Monday or Tuesday has had any impact. Remember that on Tuesday Fred Thompson and Joe Lieberman attacked Obama. I thought that maybe Lieberman could have had an effect. Obviously I was wrong. Lieberman was the one supposed to woow Independents and Democrats. Let' wait guys. Time will tell.

Stillow:

Heheh, you guys still do not get it!!!

"I'm trying to think back, I can't remember a time when the left was scrambling so hard....."

lol!!!

They were right on last night when they quoted Lincold.
"A g'ment that can give everything to you, is a g'ment that can take everything from you"

Yes, more taxes, more g'ment programs, more entitlements......those aren't policies, those are the easiest way to lose your freedom.

Jen:

Conservatism and far-right extremism are not the same thing are they? On the slavery issue, would you call Lincoln a liberal? The heart of conservatism has never really changed. It has always advocated for smaller government, lower taxes, less government intrusion, more power to the states, personal responsibility, and fiscal responsibility.

Our current president left conservatives out in the rain in some of these areas, and tried to redefine it as whatever he did. He may be a good man and a good republican, but I wouldn't call him a conservative.

I keep coming back to the poll where 62 percent of Americans call themselves conservatives and only half that number liberals. Why is that? People know they don't like liberalism.

I suspect many who choose to identify with conservatives don't really even know what it is, but they do like the sound of it.That's why a lot of republicans have been so quick call themselves one.

Palin's talk and actions line up with conservatism. That's why she is so appleaing to real conservatives. Neocons and Neolibs have been running the country for a while now calling themsleves moderates. Since only 3 percent of Americans identify themselves as such they obviously aren't impressed with that label.

It's time all of us look more deeply into what true conversatism and true liberalism are. Obviously no one has a clue what a moderate is. I'm all about the conservatism I described above, but that doesn't automatically make me a racist, a homophobe, or anything else.

I do believe in God, so I guess to the libs and secularists, I'm just an uneducated fool.

****, it went UP?? Lol!!

John McCain selected Sarah Palin to try and combat Barack Obama's message of change, yet yesterday's hate-fest was a stunning admission that the Republican Party has nothing to offer but more of the same to the American people.

The night began with Mitt Romney, who stepped onto the stage and into the 1970s. If "liberal" were a four letter word, half of his speech would be censored. But that was his intent, of course--to hurl the word out to the dazed, white masses below as if the word "liberal" was an epithet, and as if by its mere utterance, a hoard of rioting dirty ****ing hippies would pour onto the convention floor.

Next came Mike Huckabee, who entered stage right and brought along with him the 1980s and a school desk. A timely quip about Madonna's wardrobe triggered the start of what was a somewhat stumbling stroll down Ronald Reagan lane. Warning against the rise of "centralized government," he weaved a foreboding narrative of an Obama presidency, stitched from scraps of fears two decades old that the is an ever-present red haze on the horizon, eager to chomp into your paycheck and tear apart your private home.

Huckabee was followed by Rudy Giuliani, who cheered for the Republican Party of the 1990s. He tried to paint Democrats as haphazard and unethical controllers of the government, and sold the tale to the audience that it was the Republican Party that had all the answers. Stopping short of drafting another Contract with America, he promised that Republican rule would "shake up Washington" and delivered the rest of his speech in a voice dripping with sarcasm, betraying a jealously that a Democratic official dare to be beloved. He looked so very small on the stage not because of his stature, but because of his style. He delivered a line followed by a pause, grinning and chuckling, as if he were waving a blue-stained dress to the world.

And then, Sarah Palin took the stage. By the end of her speech, she made it abundantly clear that this "change agent" relishes playing the same Bush/Rove politics of the last eight years. The "rising star" of the Republican Party sunk to barrel-scrapping levels as she spit out attack after attack on everyone from Barack Obama to Harry Reid. Snide remarks were followed by more caustic insults, with little if any substance in between. As the monochrome audience roared, and as many in their homes watching winced at the sharpness of her personal attacks, she twisted her verbal knife not in an effort to skewer Democratic policy or governing philosophy, but to draw blood from the bodies of her political opponents. It was Rovian rhetoric at its finest. It was Rush Limbaugh to its core.

Four speakers yesterday demonstrated why four decades of conservative politics have led us here today, to this broken system where a "successful" speech is not one that speaks to the issues, but is one that speaks to the ugliest side of human nature and appeals to hate rather than hope.

It against this ragged landscape of the same, exhaustive politics that John McCain will accept the Republican nomination for President. And though he will style himself as a reformer, he will bleed into the background of these small politics that have long plagued our social discourse and that have stood as deliberate barriers to real change. Because no matter how much he attempts to distance himself from what his party stands for and how it misgoverns, no amount of rhetoric can conceal that a McCain-Palin ticket ensures more of the same at a time when the American people are clamoring for change.

Obama leading in North Dakota

Thu Sep 04, 2008

George W. Bush won North Dakota twice, with 60% of the vote, to 38% for both Al Gore and John Kerry.

Bill Clinton failed to win the state twice, and his closest margin in the state came in 1996 when Bob Dole defeated him by 6.8%. This was as he was delivering a sound electoral-college thrashing to the Kansas senator, 379-159.

No Democrat has won the state since Lyndon B. Johnson in 1964. That was the most successful year for Democrats in the television era, as Johnson set a modern record with 61% of the vote, and carried everything but the Deep South and his opponent's home state of Arizona.

Keep those things in mind as you process this poll from North Dakota:

Obama (D) 43
McCain (R) 40

Note that while North Dakota consistently votes Republican at the national level, its entire federal delegation - U.S. Senators Kent Conrad and Byron Dorgan, and U.S. Rep. Earl Pomeroy - is Democratic, speaking to an independent streak among North Dakotans that transcends party lines.

If that streak extends this year to the presidential election as well, John McCain is in serious trouble. North Dakota has just three electoral votes for the taking, but they are three votes that McCain truly cannot afford to lose. If North Dakota is in play, virtually no state is safe.

http://www.dakotapolitics.com/blogPost.asp?PostId=10915

@Stillow

I'm not sure who you mean by "you guys"--the ones who "always claim no one talks policies."

I know that Obama lost ground against Hillary in the primaries when she was perceived as proposing more concrete policies than he. Competition with Hillary changed Obama for the better, forcing him to "put meat on the bones" of his message of change.

This need to present concrete policy motivated Obama's acceptance speech at the Democratic convention, where he laid out specific measures to respond to people's distress on the economic, healthcare, and education fronts. In a time of economic anxiety (like the current environment), it is very important to respond to domestic concerns. Obama has Hillary to thank for making him a better candidate in this way.

Just as Obama had to tell people what precisely he meant by "change," so too McCain has to tell people what precisely he means by "reform." He has to translate his theme into specifics. If Steve Schmidt has any sense, he has impressed this upon McCain.

Now, who do you mean by "you guys"? People who give candidates good advice?

Let me see if I got this right. The polling that reflects the first 2.5 days of the RNC shows Obama going up a point (Gallup) and maintaining his lead (Ras)?

In the meantime, viewership for the most highly anticipated of the repubs speeches (Palin) was 20mil (half of Obama's 38 mil)?

I actually can't wait for McCain's speech tonight. I need to be up early tomorrow and sleeping pills haven't been working for me.

Stillow---

Um...have you read the Patriot Act? And have you kept up on the fact that now the government can tap any phone without authorization? How about how president Bush just signed an act giving 250,000 doctors plus the right to not treat a patient based on their religious beliefs...I'd say that our freedoms are at risk just slightly.

Government programs can work and really need to be reformed so that they work for us. We can really create an amazing society if we do things correctly. We need to demand that our taxes be put to good use...for medical care, education, retirement. The beauty of living in this country is that we can stop our crying and demand change. Come on now ;-) Let's do something about it rather than whining...

R's are in a total State of Denali (which is not a river in Egypt).

As mobsters say when the cement overshoes are set, "You've solidified your base!"

Sorry, I'm getting away from the pit bull metaphor. It's PERFECT! So again I say

Her bite is worse than our Barack!

I predict that McCain will gain 5-6 points by next week and will stay there until the end of October at which point the dems will unload the most vile lies imaginable. It will backfire and McCain will win in a landslide.

Don’t Walk Into The Trap

by Daniel Larison

Here is an item from Jonathan Martin’s blog that drives home how the impulse of many Republicans and conservatives to lean towards backing Obama is usually both superficial and absolutely irrational:

"Even for unhappy Republicans, who’ve soured on the party and flirted with Obama it [Palin’s speech] was a flash of light in a dismal season for the GOP.

“Sarah Barracudda kicked ass — and my vote is back on the market!” gushed one Obamacan."

Think about this. Here you have a Republican who has soured on the party, presumably because of its poor policies, its lack of competence or some combination of the two, and he is so disillusioned that he felt drawn to a Democratic nominee who probably holds absolutely none of his views, perhaps simply because Obama is not the Republican. One well-delivered speech later given by the Vice Presidential nominee filled with what was largely boilerplate rhetoric, and suddenly the GOP ticket seems like a viable alternative to him again.

With all respect to Gov. Palin, who delivered an effective stemwinder that had a number of amusing lines in it, the conditioned responses that conservatives are having to Palin’s speech is frankly depressing. For all of their complaints and criticisms about McCain’s deviations, conservatives are now falling into line even more pathetically than usual. Seeing this display, I am tempted to think that even Giuliani could have won the nomination, chosen a similar running mate and nothing would have changed.

Practically everything that you, the average conservative, like about Sarah Palin is opposed and negated by what John McCain stands for and has represented for pretty much his entire career, but still conservatives are reacting deliriously to a speech whose ultimate purpose is to co-opt them into backing a presidential candidate whose policies on vital national questions are antithetical to everything they value. Does her small-town ethos impress you and inspire some identification with her? McCain embraces the policies promoting globalization and mass immigration that are gradually transforming your small towns beyond recognition. Does her hostility to Washington elites please you? McCain serves and always has served the interests of those elites, and his immigration legislation was just the most recent and egregious form of this. Like the undead creature it resembles, the GOP establishment will feed off of every bit of the energy, vivacity and authenticity that Palin possesses in its bid to keep conservatives serving their goals. Do not help the creature to feed on its victim.

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

I predict that McCain will gain 5-6 points by next week and will stay there until the end of October at which point the dems will unload the most vile lies imaginable. It will backfire and McCain will win in a landslide.

lol!! I agree! In fact, McCain is so sure to win, don't even bother voting. Why even have an RNC, it's gonna be McCain in a landslide silly! In fact, he's looking so strong at the moment that he should just nominate Lieb VP to have some laughs. Hes actually so far ahead and so certain of victory that, during the debates, he should just tell fart jokes.

In the meantime, I'll keep campaigning for Obama.

Really nevermet?

Would you like to wager on that? How about everything you own?

No?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Big talk, no action. Same as usual from a retardlican.

Nevermet--

Thanks for clarifying...I like your answer. More people need to share their truths because that's the only way we'll understand each other.

Many of us "liberals" believe in God - we just don't feel that church and state should be combined. I made a hasty comment regarding education---but...I was just reacting to your assertion that Liberalism is a disease. There are some great things in Liberalism...just as there are with your beliefs.

So far the only ones that sound desperate to me are the Republicans. Did it occur to them that Americans hear Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter et al and are just a little bit sick of it? So what do they do? They basically do the same thing! Is that what they think Americans want to hear? Democrats raise taxes!! Liberals suck!!! That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

Perhaps THE Beatdown of the YEAR!!!!!

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card

Just finished reading the comments sections in some of our major newspapers, the 'homerun' the media has been talking about may be inside the convention. The local media has really been doing its homework. A full vetting of Palin has been going on, and from what I see most people see her as the zealot she is. People do not want Bush redux. Am surprised how many people do not want to be embarassed by a "redneck." w/ a dysfunctional family supported by the Dobsons of the world.

@jenjenjen

I agree with you. (and welcome to this wacko site) We have to make gov't work. 8 years of neocon BS should be enough to show the world what it's like to have foxes guarding the henhouse and writing legislation.
A while back, McCain said it wasn't even possible to raise taxes on the top 2% because they would always figure a way out of it, and therefore the little people would be left holding the bag.
How patriotic! Where's FDR when we need him?

@NeverMet

You may be right, but it will be R's pretending to be Dems unloading on McCain. That will be your only shot.

@politicod

It is zero surprise the media is trying to destory her. Look what they did to Borke or Justice Thomas....they will make every effort to destory palin's reputation....they will throw her under the bus and run her over all night and all day. The lefts allies in the media will make eevery effort to totally destory her....she is going to have to fight the fight of her life to stop them.

stillow - give it up already.

Any Constitutional expert with anything above a University of Idaho degree knows that Clarence Thomas was an effing joke. He was wholly unqualified. Period. It was a pure political move to garner the AA vote for repubs - didn't work though as everyone saw right through it.

Your pathetic lack of education is symbolic of republican trolls on this board. You don't know about anything. Just shut up already, you make yourself look dumber by the minute.

Jen:

Maybe I should change my name today to OnceIMetanHonestLiberal... but then again, we haven't met :)

Someone please define moderate?

Stillow -

I have to admit it is sad that she is being attacked so badly - we need to respect each other more in this country, no doubt.

She seems like a very smart woman...I think the backlash has to do with it being such a strange choice. No one in the country had really heard of her and then her family issues are a big story - probably because the are usually so far from what usual Republican candidates have had to deal with.

I think McCain would have done better to choose someone like Romney. It was just such a surprise...and kind of a reactionary choice. A lot of people think it makes this race sort of a mockery. I took it like the Republicans were trying to make the point that they can think out of the box...and threw her into the mix to accomplish that. I think they really did a disservice to her because they knew she'd get hammered. If she were a democrat, she would have been hammered by the conservative media & conservatives for not teaching her kids to abstain from sex and that a woman who has a 4 month old should be home with her child.

It's just is all strange for me...

As a woman, I'm a little saddened by it all. She is clearly a smart woman...but I just don't think she was the right choice at the right time.

definition:

Not you. (more to come)

@jenjenjen

I actually agree, the conservative media probably would ahve went after her in reverse....however...and you may disagree, the liberal media outnumbers the conservative media 10 to 1.....so the onslought looks so much more intense.

It is what it is...she's gonna get slammed hard by the left and media....I don't mind it coming from the left, that's there job, but the media is no doubt on a witch hunt.

Maybe you should change your name to "aretardedchimp"....but then again, you aren't even that bright.

I have a friend back home that I talked to yesterday and I believe he's a moderate so I'll describe his views:

He believes that the Iraq war was based on bad intelligence and should not have happened.

He believes that gay marriage should not be legal and believes in civil unions.

He believes that Bush is horrible

He doesn't believe he has the right to tell a woman what to do with her body although he believes that third trimester abortions should be illegal and there should be a scientific term for when a fetus is actually "alive".

He doesn't believe that higher taxes should be put on anyone because they make more money.

He doesn't care that the US tortures people.

He doesn't care that they wire tap people without warrants.

I think he's moderate because he's socially moderate, fiscally conservative, and is fairly liberal-minded in foreign policy.

I think there are different combinations of moderates depending on what combinations of policies they endorse (i.e. moderate, liberal, conservative policies)

I think that if her speech has being a combination of domestic policy, ECONOMY, her story and record, and empowering, not as a woman but as an American. Think about Hillary's speech Tuesday night at the Convention, calling us to stand up and get our country out of this ditch, "to keep on going." Think about Barack telling "America, we are better than these last 8 years." A speech like that would have done wonders among independents and soft democrats. However, her speech was very divisive, full of attacks, with zero policy. She was supposed to bring domestic policy to the ticket, and I doubt people were left with that impression. Her speech was so focus on pleasing the base, like throwing meat to the sharks. I wonder, wasn't the base already pleased with her conservative credentials? That's what I thought. I don't know how can that ticket bring on board those independents and moderate democrats with such "mean spirited" rethoric and absence of domestic agenda.

Stillow:

The media is not "liberal" if it goes against Fox News.

We would say that means the media is "credible"

Cool Palin stuff. The "first dude" won 2000 mile race four times!

http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzzlog/91779/hockey-moms-luxury-jets-and-more-sarah-palins-speech

Divisive.....heheheh, its like you guys wear ear plugs at the speeches given at the DNC. You guys hear what you want to hear....Your partisans, she could have given everyone a million bucks last night and you'd complain that it wasn't two million. It makes perfect sense though, since liberalism by definition is the inability to think for yourself, which is why you seek the g'ment to make your decisions for you.

Just want to clear the air about something that I have seen a few times here.

Although the type of speech that Palin delivered has very little cross-over appeal, and was probably the least effective way to attract real PUMA's, it was in fact red meat through and through, and there are enough simple minded fence sitters that will be swayed by the projected un-Americanism and scare tactics that it will surely help to produce a bounce.

Now as far as bounces go, it won't be a large bounce. She pushed some in the opposite direction with the retoric, and didn't clear the air about who she is that it isn't one of those fundamentally positive moments like Obama had last week.

So I do in fact expect some bounce, especially since Gallup Daily Tracking tends to track down for Obama leading up and through the weekend, but this did not change the dynamic of the election.

I also doubt that McCain will do much of anything to further his cause tonight as he is not a good public speaker, and he is probably more likely to hurt his cause than help it tonight.

I don't think that Republicans or McCain were trying to "think outside the box" by choosing Palin. I think they would have chosen a woman years ago had the right one been available.

I just think that conservatives found their home under RR and without them the party is weak. The last few years they've been taken for granted while the neocons pandered to anyone that could vote. Ideology matters to a lot of people.

Chosing a conservative is returning to 80's ideas. Chosing a conservative woman is just a matter of timing. There hasn't been a stong one out there until now. If there was we would have seen her 20 years ago when most of you were little liblettes.

@Robi

Go the NY Times, count the # of liberal journalists vs conservative. Go to NBC, do the same, go to CNN,do the same, go to CBS, do the same, go to MSNBC, dothe same, gothe LA Times, dothe same, go to the washing post, dothe same. Go to PBS, do the same. Then go to Fox and dothe same...................
You'r eblinded by partisan ideaology....

You mean, when we were in school learning how to spell?

@kerrchdavis:

hey i work in a server room that is 60 degrees, you try and type with numb hands all day.

Stillow:

Liberal is in the eye of the beholder. Back in NY, I was considered a conservative.

Stillow -

The media is largely Liberal but I think there is a reason for this :-)

I'm a journalist myself -- As a journalist you are subjected to so much. You cover people who are hurting, poor...you become quite sympathetic..and see the world in grays rather than in blacks and whites.

I grew up in a conservative home and was so sheltered. And then...I went out into the world and saw how lucky...and also unlucky I was. I was lucky to have things, to travel to Europe many times etc. On the other hand, I was unlucky because I feared those who I didn't understand. Those included kids who went to public schools, kids with single mothers, the poor, gays, people of other religions. As a young journalist I jumped in with my conservative ideals and then was blown away by what I never understood -- I realized that I judged so many people unjustly -- that I never really knew as much as I thought I did.

I've traveled to Africa, Palestine, Mexico, Costa Rica...where there are many, many poor people and have been left with the conviction that we owe it to each other to take care of one another -- to understand rather than judge. And I then became a liberal. Because I realized that - gays are beautiful people who deserve our acceptance and respect - that for our world to heal we need to help one another.

There are many amazing conservatives doing things to help...and I'm thankful for that. But it's just hard to stay a conservative when you see that their platform is so very black & white in so many ways.

Stillow - I apologize for media's coverage of Palin ;-) It's just such a surreal choice.

@stillow

lol, I wasn't talking about you. 60? brrr, I feel for you buddy.

Nevermetafirstgradeteacher was trying to spell "choose" while thinking about a "chode."

I am choosing to ingore that.

I expect McCain's numbers to go up, although I don't think that he will get beyond 45% in Gallup daily tracking. I have the feeling that his "ceiling" is around there. In Rasmussen I think that he could either tie or get ahead by 1%. Let's see how things play out. McCain-Palin's ticket only hope are independents and soft democrats. I don't think that her speech last night did anything towards gaining among independents, and those real PUMAs? I think they are already in McCain's camp since long ago. Let's wait and see guys.

Kerr:

I was thinking about you :)

@jenjenjen

I honeslty think the media could care less about "poor" people. They are all about the show. The media is liberal because its simply playing the game.

I can tell you,the solutions to all the problem swe have is not liberalism, its not raising taxes and growing g'ment. When you grow g'ment and create programs people "depend" on, you create dependency....and the moment you become dependent is the moment you lose your freedom. The g'ment would have complete control over your life...once your dependent on them to solve your problems and take care of your needs, you lose the abilityto take care of yourself. So its like being a child again...if you misbehave or don't do what mom says, you get punished. Reagan said it best, when g'ment expands, freedom retracts. Go back and look at the statements of our founders, nearly all of themwarned greatly the dangers in a large centralized g'ment....where the president is more an elected king, than a servant of the people....once you create that cycle of dependency, it snearly impossible to undo.

Stillow:

That is actually a decent opinion (I guess I think that because I wasn't offended). I'm proud of you.

I still think you're wrong. If you wanna know why, let me know but I don't want to waste my time if you won't listen.

@Carl29:
You said that Hillary wants to be the first female president so bad that she and Bill will work like crazy to get Obama elected and stop Sarah from getting in to the executive office. Boy, that assumption is really grasping for straws. The only chance that Hillary has to be the first female president is for Obama to lose. She could come back in four years to challenge McCain as her party's choice. However, my opinion is that she couldn't even get her party's nomination then. Its over for her. This was it. It was her one shot at the oval office. She has even given her mailing list to Obama.

I do however want to ask you a question. Does Obama hate white women? It seems as if he only goes after women. He treated Hillary in a disgusting manner in the primary. However, he didn't treat Edwards, Biden, or Richardson bad at all. He seemed to look up to them. Now he is going after Sarah in a disgusting manner even though McCain is at the top of the ticket. What gives here? I have a reason for asking this question. Obama is the king of the political driven media. No one can dispute that. It does what he wants it to do.

But why is it better to depend on, for example, a company that sells you health care coverage with the goal of making as much profit as possible in comparison to affordable plans created by the government? I don't think there is any less dependency...you are simply shifting the dependency from the government of a country that SHOULD have it's people's best interests at heart to private services that do not care about you one bit.

Nobody is saying depend on the government. Obama said it best in his speech when he explained that the government is there to help you do what you cannot do for yourself, such as protect you from harm or provide you with an education when you cannot afford it.

@jenjen..

if you are a journalist then please stop with the infantile apologetic smiley faces.

if you are a journalist then why couldnt you see Palin coming as the obvious choice?

if you are a journalist then why did you not know about biden's family getting indicted four weeks ago? it was all over the financial pages.

if you are a journalist then why do you not see the grand picture. that the nation is in a good transition, that mccain is leading the charge for feminism with a viable candidate that hillary was not and was for hillary.

hillary grated. palin does not. women ie educated, middle class intellectuals had a much easier time with the scorned hillary because she wasnt competition with them.

she was the loser fighting back in a pant suit not like the attractive palin with a faithful guy. it's the same old cat fight that has stifled female success in a male dominated world and you and the dems are merely feeding it. imagine that. dems destroying women's chance at a fair break because they are green with envy and out come the claws.

when women stop looking over their shoulder at who is prettier, smarter and more successful..then they have a chance.

hillary was the the woe is me gal. but if you could accept her ability to trudge on while she famously compartmentalized marriage woes etc..then why do you not apply the same standard to palin?

is it because she is simply more lovely?

obama is charming, obama is cute. obama is sexy. face it...a lot of the rationalization over him is his coverbook face and demeanor which btw has been plastered from here to kingdom come.

the issues are so obscured so overlapping and so shifting in their nuances that it comes down to charisma.

come clean jenjen and all yu female obamites who prevaricate all over the lot just to justify your lust.

the yellow states are turning brght red.

watch wiscnsin and new jersey. if palin starts to make a dent, and wisconsin flds then ohio and pa are soon to follow.

Stillow -

There are some journalists who are all about show. I'll give you that. But there are many of us who really want to help the disadvantaged. Those include those who don't have a voice. We also want to voice our opinions when we don't agree with what the government is doing.

Larger government may not be the answer entirely...but what do we do about our current situation? Families are being torn apart because they can't afford health care, college for their children, the rising cost of products. Too many people don't even take more than a week of vacation. How do we remedy this?

I was just in Sweden and they have done a beautiful job there with their social programs. The average worker has 5-8 weeks of vacation, they pay into health care and know that they have retirement waiting for them when they are older. Their neighbor Denmark was rated the happiest country on earth.

Now...I know they are smaller in population than the US...but if we are such innovators, can't we create a system that works for us?

Unfortunately, in the US things are only favorable for the healthy and wealthy. The average person, and a growing number of middle classers can't keep up with the way things are going.

I'll give it to the US that it is a place where men & woman can obtain what many can't in other countries, but it is becoming harder and harder to keep up. Public schools are suffering, teachers being laid off, the hospital system is a wreck, the housing market tumbled...

A recent report revealed that there are more people living in their cars than ever (pets and all)...so...i just have to ask...what do we do to create a better situation? My thoughts are that if our government created benefits that are lasting rather than spend 8 billion dollars a month on Iraq....we can have an investment in our own country that will prove amazing.

You worry about a larger government -- i look at it as an investment & security for our future.

I worry about conservatives running our country by the standards of the Bible & the loss of personal liberties & close mindedness.

It's an interesting discussion to say the least ;-)

Kerr:

The government spends more money on education now than at any time in history.

Are kids getting a better education today than when the government didn't spend a dime?

@kerrchdavis

The difference is a private company you still ahve choice. One can choose that if comapny A doesn't treat you the wayou want, you can choose comapny B. Competition itself is the measure at which quality is maintained. Obama stated if your comapny doesn't offer you a plan, you can get the same plan the g'ment offers. Well naturally...a comapny will stop offering there coverage, which means we'll all end up on the g'ment system where you then have no choice. Unless your very wealthy, you will see what they have in Canad and England, where you have to wait weeks sometime sbefore your appointed doctor can see you. In addition, taking out the profit motive of doctors means the highly skilled people that would have gone into that profession to make a high income will seek other professions where the desired income level can be reached. The g'ment job should never reach beyond oversight. True conservatives will tell you that no one opposes g'ment oversight to ensure people and business behave themselves, but in reverse, business and people provide oversight of the g'ment. G'ment run retirement for example, also known as social security is a bubble program. It has no way to maintian its own funding. Which is why its bankrupt. G'ment run helth care woudl be the same thing. Ask yourself why liberals oppose the work for welfare program....if someone simply cannot find a job in the private sector, then ok, lets put them on welfare. But don't ask them to work in the community? The reason for that is liberals want them stuck in that dependency, working for it would make them probably want more...in addition they would learn skills, etc so the chance of them moving to private is greater.
People will always be better off running there own lives and making there own decisions....forfeiting those to the g'ment would open the door for massive corruption.

boskop:

LOL! Why so angry? For your sake I won't smile anymore.

I very much doubt that you saw Palin coming. And last night she grated me. I will not support a woman who is not Pro Choice. I will not support a woman who is anti gay rights. I will not support a woman with her views.

Sorry.

@jenjenjen

The comparison with countries like Sweeden is invalid, not because of population, but because of responsibility. Like it or don't like, We are pretty much the old country with the ability to defend against radical nations. Stopping the spread of communism by the Soviets didn't happen because countries like Sweeden stoopand fought, it was because we stood up and fought, and we could only do that because we invest in our military. Let's face it, if we were gone, places like China, Russia, Iran would make very aggressive moves to expand.....So ya maybe we don't have 8 weeks vacation, but we have th ability to defend ourselves and our freinds.

I have a decision to make. A pint of Guinness, Sierra Nevada, Blue Moon, or Sam's Octoberfest. What would a good liberal choose right now?

37.2 Million watched Palin last night, little less than Obama....and palin's speech was shown on 4 less networks. 10 networks covered obama, 6 covered palin........people wanted to see her....

The beatdowns of the year!

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/4/105623/5197/586/586233

Wow. Simply wow.

Stillow -

True regarding our ability to defend. Hmm...I just hope we come up with some answers.

We'll pull through I'm sure.

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=36ee8fde-58bf-4027-a75b-b29d86b66b92

This an updated poll that should more than please Stillow and Boskop.