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POLL: Daily Tracking (7/29-31)


Rasmussen Reports
7/29-31/08; 3,000 LV, 2%
Mode: IVR

National
Obama 47, McCain 46


Gallup Poll
7/29-31/08; 2,680 RV, 2%
Mode: Live Telephone Interviews

National
McCain 44, Obama 44

 

Comments
Uri:

I find it strange that Gallup lists 2% for others and 5% for neither, whereas other polls show better results for the other candidates.

Still a remarkable number of undecideds in Rasmussen, I think this will play for Obama because his people are more likely to go and vote.

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Undecided:

Well, this in now a real horse race. The optimism of Obama campaign has to be shaken... whereas the GOP is energized with hopefulness. Who could have predicted this?

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marctx:

Hillary did.

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sherman:

I don't see how the Obama optimism could be shaken too much. The results are well within the margin of error and other polls are showing clear Obama advantages, including the state-by-state polls, which are the ones that really count.

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Tybo:

i wonder what about the overseas trip caused Obama's slipage?
It was a little like a concert tour, the dumped vet visit was an idiots move(whoever okayed it should be out on their arse), does imply McCain is racist have a kickback (given McCain has a multiracial child and has stood up to the gop negative ads).

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Undecided:

I am signed up for emails from the candidates... just received McCain's newest campaign ad against Obama... "The One." It is quite humorous. I am beginning to think that McCain has writers from SNL on his staff.

Bottom line McCain's latest strategy is to play up Obama's celebrity and make it a deficit rather than an advantage for Obama.

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boskop:

i have one word:rocky.

we love the underdog. when obama was one at the beginning and hillary was the presumptive one, we went for him.

clearly, the media bias has hurt obama. the hoopla has too. we had a distinct and plodding underdog.

also, nothing annoys americans more than a bunch of germans and french endorsing a candidate on their turf.

hello-o-o, we do the endorsing and the deciding. so the one who's huffing and puffing up the steps and can barely breathe without feeling dizzy from exertion is the one we are rooting for more and more.


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OGLiberal:

"so the one who's huffing and puffing up the steps and can barely breathe without feeling dizzy from exertion is the one we are rooting for more and more."

I don't deny this phenomenon exists among Americans. Heck, I do it myself whenever I watch a sporting event that doesn't involve my team. But to have it come into play when deciding upon whom to vote for as president is dangerous, ignorant, and ridiculous.

As for Obama's international appeal - for the love of pete, when did it become a bad thing for an American politician to be viewed approvingly by our allies?

Of course, the poll numbers appear to show that I'm on the wrong side of the argument here.

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boskop:

i'm passing judgement. merely making an observation.

by the way, you take my metaphor a but too literally. you read it in terms of age, i wrote it in terms of political success in the campaign.

when obama is recieved by 200,000 not far from the bradenberg gate, and mccain goes to berlin, new hampshire and is met by one single lonely itty bitty reporter, i call that plodding and huffing and puffing to just stay in the race.

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SullaSPQR:

McCain's (well, his GOP advisors') strategy is to throw out enough dastardly lies about Obama, a non-traditional candidate, to uneducated, rural, working class people who believe it because it sounds like it could be true. These people are not paying close attention to the election right now. They are easily swayed by lies because they don't have the education, time or resources to figure it out for themselves, unlike thos eof us who read this site. They rely on their church, their union, other collective or community forces and whatever the prevailing winds tell them to decide on how to vote. It's not usually a rationally arrived at, deliberative decision. The GOP understand this very well. The Democrats, for some reason, still do not seem to understand this and it is our donwfall. If the GOP can raise Obama's negatives among enough of these people, and believe me, there are scores of millions of them, and negatively define him, he will have lost all of that segment, some of whom, even a small minority, might otherwise have voted for him because of economic hardship. If it is successful, then it will be very hard for Obama to rise above 50% in the polls. 50% or above is the magic number you need to be at to win the election. So, in other words, while Obama always knew he would have to write off most of this population, his goal, in addition to registering millions of new African-American voters and young voters, and counting on women, professionals, etc., is to win just enough of these uneducated rural voters, maybe even just 20%, to put him over the top. The Rove tactic is to deny him that and to make him unacceptable by lying about him and scaring these uneducated people that he is some strange character, some boogeyman, the Other. And then, by default, who is left other than McCain? As a Democrat, this has me very worried because I think it can be a very successful strategy. I used to think the election was about 70-30 in favor of Obama winning, now I'd say it's 50/50, and if things continue as they are, I would say we may have yet another loss in the making.

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Mike_in_CA:

Reagan was consistently running behind Carter in the polls during the summer of 1980. Why? Because voters were unsure of what they were getting with the relative newcomer.

Some polls even had Carter ahead in OCTOBER... of course, we all know how that election turned out...

if you forgot, let me remind you: Reagan 489 Carter 49.

Polls before the convention are useless. But, your intimidation tactics are pretty awesome "Undecided." Seriously, the GOP is filled with hopefulness right now? You are smoking something real good over there. The fundamentals of this race DO NOT, and WILL NOT ever favor the Republicans. Check Sabato's site to see how many times the challenger party lost an election when the incumbent party was so out of favor. Never.

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Mike_in_CA:

@boskop,

by the way, this "media bias" in favor of Obama is just wrong. A study found that of comments made about either candidate, 72% about Obama were negative, whereas only 57% about McCain were negative. Media bias my ass.

Another repeat of 2004 we have here, the GOP will do and say anything to win. And then they'll put a disaster in the WH who will garner a sub-30% approval rating, and Americans will once again lose hope in their government to be effective. Why do we do this to ourselves?

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Undecided:

What "intimidation tactics?" I am commenting on the daily tracking polls. Is the idea that McCain and Obama are tied "intimidating" ... in other words that this is a competitive race.

Or that I find "humor" in politics?

Please no more personal attacks on general observations about the candidates. Think before you hit that button labeled "Post an intelligent and civil comment."

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Stillow:

A disaster my freind would be having a liberal in the WH and in conrol of Congress. If you think Bush is a loose goose with money, wait til you see what $$$$$ we spend under Obama.

Bottom line is these #'s have Obama and his followers scared to death. This guy shoud be up a minimum of 15 points and should be climbing. The polls are tightening and we may see McCain pull ahead. Obama's liberal elitist arogance is going to cost him this election which was handed to him on a silver platter, but like most elitist they cannot control there disdain towards the folks. His own arogance is going to defeat him.
This is absolutely astonishing that this race is basically tied. The GOP brand right now is like rat poison and yet Obama cannot pull away. people do not like arogant pompass fools who talk down to them. Perhaps all thsoe folks clinging to their guns and relgiion are swining to McCain.
Or maybe they think taking profits from a company and giving it to the people in the form of rebate checks sounds just bit to much like Socialism.
Anyway, I got to go air up my tires now to lower gas prices.......Obama is an idiot!

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Undecided:

I find the argument that people who will not vote for Obama are "undeducated and swayed by lies" in a McCain ad to be a red herring argument.

The real debate should be about what Obama is doing to win over this demographic of white voters. His outreach has been ineffective and also minimal.

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C.S.Strowbridge:

"The real debate should be about what Obama is doing to win over this demographic of white voters."

He's doing better among white voters than John Kerry did. He's also doing better among Hispanics.

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SullaSPQR:

Undecided, you did not carefully read my argument. I did not say that all people who will not vote for Obama are uneducated and swayed by lies. I know many Repubicans who are highly educated and fiscal conservatives who will never vote for him because any tax hike is a sin to them. What I did say is that there is a certain segment of the population that is rural, relatively uneducated, and susceptible to being influenced by lies for the reasosn aI cited. Obama never hoped to win a majority of such people anyway, but he needs to garner at least in the low double digits from them to have a chance to win. If he is persona non grata with that segement and his negatives drive down their support to the single digits, he is probably toast in the election. The logical fallacy in your criticism of my argument is that you assuemd I meant all people not voting for Obama are uneducated and swayed by lies, when in fact all I said is that there is a certain segment of people who may or may not vote for him, a certain percentage of which he needs to carry, who are uneducated and swayed by lies, thus the negative campaigning could work. As much as I hate the GOP Rove attack tactics, I admit they often do work and Democrats lack a fundamental understanding of the way the human mind works because our appeals are aimed at rational thought and analysis, when in fact that is a smaller factor in who wins than visceral, gut-level feelings about candidates.

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Stillow:

Now wait a second, your right a certain # of rural voters can be tricked, but that i offset by the # of inner-city uneducated who are swayed also by lies. There are hoards of "uneduacted" on both sides....and both sides do advertising to pander to those groups to ensure those votes.....do not sit and proclaim that is only the GOP, the Dems do it too and do it well. Both sides have always done and it will always do it. You have your head in the sand if you think the left is all noble and pure when it comes to these things.

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brambster:

Uncecided/NickBerry,

You're not fooling anyone. You've been ranting anti-Obama stuff on over 40 different sites for the last 6 months:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=nickberry+mccain&btnG=Search

Are you paid to do this?

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SullaSPQR:

Stillow, the Dems may do it too, but certainly not as much as the GOP, and when they do do it, it's not very effective.

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Stillow:

You can tell I am bored at work today.....

Your nuts if you think the Dems do not do it to the extremes. Every major city in this country votes heavily left and most poor people in these big cities vote left, especially non-whites. This is a total wash.
This is a big issue the left has, when it comes to voting, the left claims the high ground each time, accusing the GOP of this and that, whe nthe left is just as guilty, both parties do it, thy do it well and they do it equally.
I beleive the Dems win the "dead" vote every election .........

The Dems don't do it as much, c'mon man, wise up! Both parties as corrupt as they have ever been, they both talk a good game, in the end neither really gives a rat's behind about average folks. Its all about power and keeping that power.

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SullaSPQR:

Stillow, I disagree. I think we should do more of it; make McCain's old age a major issue; the dude's an ebeneezer scrooge type, etc., out of touch, doesn't know how much a gallon of milk costs, wife's a multi-millionaire, Marie-Antoinette type running up credit card debt to be paid off by daddy's inheritted money, whle the rest of us struggle to make ends meet, etc. They won't do it though. And I disagree that each side is as corrupt as the other. The Dems are far from perfect, but the GOP is a den of iniquity.

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josephj:

Undecided: "I am beginning to think that McCain has writers from SNL on his staff."
--------------------
Maybe that's why his ads aren't funny...Has there ever been a period in SNL's history that's less funny than right now?

@Stillow: Maybe you can explain to me why those who are most highly educated vote Democrat? I bet they're brainwashed with such meaningless, irrelevant disciplines as "Global Economics" and such. If only they had the wisdom of rural voters who have consistently voted against their own best interest since Nixon's focus 'values.'

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boskop:

well, at least this site is no longer the obama love fest. some dissenters have come to the fore as the race has become dead even.

as far as voters being lied to, there are as many super educated bimbos with advanced degrees who having read up on history and yacked themselves blue about politics still can see a train wreck in the making.

the deficit. high oil. no jobs. depression.

today the jobs number was pitiful. the market is in bear mode and oil is creeping back up. we are not even close to converting engines to cng/lng or lithium ion without either junking cars and/or building out alt fuel infra-structure to support the change. (despite the 2,000 dollar conversion kits on the market)

ya need moolah to buy the new cars. if you havent got a job because oil based transports have driven your company's supplies through the roof and you got laid off, then you can kiss alt fuels adios for the short term.

then come the big handouts, the bailouts, which drives the deficit higher. bush has strted that process, imagine a republican beating a democrat to the punch!

now you tell me where the greenbacks come from if all you can do is print undervalued greenbacks?
cash? i'd rather own river pebbles than dollars.

oil and whether you drill or dont is the key to this contest. not charm, not invade this climate challenged eastern nation or that.

and my guess is that americans will go with the energy policy that provides both the quick fix to bridge over the alt fuel conversion that is inevitable.

now you tell me which candidate you think is the one that gets the nod.

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Stillow:

SullaSPQR
Good comments, but your the reason why both parties suck right now. Your in denial about the corruption of the left.....its bad on both sides, real bad. Until we all stand up, righties and lefties and tell each party enough is enough and get good people in office on both sides, things will continue to get worse and worse. We keep putting the same people back in to Congress, term after term and then we wonder why its so bad, its not one party's fault, its no one persons fault, the system has become corrupt because the two major parties are corrupt. Most of them woud sell us down the river in a heartbeat if it served there purposes.
Not all are bad, both sides have noble people who really want to do good, but the corruption and partisanship is so bad on both sides.....its just a game to them and its destroying this country.
We all ahve to demand quality from both parties, I clearly identify more with Conservatism, but both sides right now are in horrible shape.
josephj
Highly educated? Anyone who equates "highly educated" with intelligent is himself an idiot. Its no shocker, nor has it ever been...and its been true for decades that younger people graduating college are Democrat and lean left, once they get jobs and realize how punitive the tax code is, many of them beging shifting to the right. Ther eis an old saying that has been true for a very long time.
You are born a Democrat, you live a Republican, you die a Democrat.
But you should never equate educated with intelligent. Some very brilliant people never attended college.....and some very stupid people have.
In addition, most colleges are controlled by liberal facalty which means liberalism is the dominate ideaology that is taught, thus is natural for people coming out of college to thin kthat way....and as a result vote that way. It isn't until they get jobs and see the tax burden on them, especially as there income grows that they begin to see the error of their ways.
Claiming educational supremecy is a ploy used by the left often, basically claiming they are the enlightened onces because some liberal professor gave him an A on a term paper he wrote explaining why abortion is a moral and just thing. All the so called education in the world is still no math for good ole' fashioned common sense.

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Uri:

This might be a hiccup for the Obama camp, and besides, his speech in the Denver stadium at the convention would bump him up and he's still gonna win the EVs anyway.

However, I think a lot of people saw the coverage of the Europe and middle east trip and felt that the media has taken way too much of a bias in this and hence the backlash.

The way that everybody jumped on his plane and McCain was left alone made people think. But maybe I'm hoping for too much from people :)

As for the race story, this will die down and hurt McCain because the MSM is avoiding mentioning what Obama has said (funny name and looking different on the dollar) and then his lame excuse (I would bring change to Washington, because of course that is the first thing I think when I see a president on the bill). Instead, CNN just explained that McCain is a racist because he showed Obama in an ad with two white women (Spears and Hilton).

Argh.

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Uri:

@SullaSPQR: I don't think the Republicans have been spreading lies, or at least so far I've been quite underwhelmed with the Republican hate machine, compared to what they gave Clinton, Gore and Kerry.

The current focus on Obama being a "bag of air" is a point made for a long time by people who are against Obama like myself (or racists, as many Obama supporters to avoid discussion of said criticism). It's about time the republicans picked on it, but they've done a horrible job. The McCain ad doesn't make the jump well from Britney to OBama's policies.

BTW: What's with the choice of username? Quite ironic for an election related forum :)

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dodo:

Cost of McSames shoes $523 --custom Italian

Number of houses owned by McSame 10

Be McSame is Not an Elitist...Why? because he is a Repub and that is not part of the brand.

What would Obama be called if he wore $500 shoes and had 10 mansions?....A man of the people if he were a Repub


Stillow:

A disaster my freind (SPELLING) would be having a liberal in the WH and in conrol (spelling) of Congress. If you think Bush is a loose goose with money, wait til you see what $$$$$ we spend under Obama. (Please explain how you are able to read the future)

Bottom line is these #'s have Obama and his followers scared to death (Please how you are able to read people's thoughs). This guy shoud (spelling) be up a minimum of 15 points and should be climbing. The polls are tightening and we may see McCain pull ahead. Obama's liberal elitist arogance (spelling--re elitism, please note the price of McSames' shoes and his number of houses) is going to cost him this election which was handed to him on a silver platter, but like most elitist they cannot control there disdain towards the folks (Please explainhow you are able to read Obama's mind). His own arogance (spelling) is going to defeat him.
This is absolutely astonishing that this race is basically tied. The GOP brand right now is like rat poison and yet Obama cannot pull away. people do not like arogant pompass (spelling, spelling) fools who talk down to them. Perhaps all thsoe (spelling) folks clinging to their guns and relgiion are swining (spelling X 2) to McCain.
Or maybe they think taking profits from a company and giving it to the people in the form of rebate checks sounds just bit to much like Socialism.
Anyway, I got to go air up my tires now to lower gas prices.......Obama is an idiot!

Dude, learn to use the spell checker.

Also please get help; people who think they can predict the future and read others' thoughts are actually crazy.

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Stillow:

dodo,
You need something better than spelling errors. I freely admit I am the world's worst typist...in addition I have two broken fingers, a fun accident at work. Nonetheless, you need soemthing more than spelling if you wish to jump in.
If I were a Harvard grad maybe they would have had better typing classes.....

Oh...and you don't need to read Obama's mind, just listen to his words, he is arogant and a moron.

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TheVoice99:

Oh, gee, another repub who voted for Bush calling another politician a moron. Good one. You clowns elected the world's dumbest leader in the history of this planet. Obama is Einstein by comparison.

Gallup has shown ridiculous variability in their polls. Really, up 8 to tied in a span of a week? I think not.....or maybe they are polling schizos....

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GreatKuzoo:

You live by the polls you die by the polls

Funny thing about polls...Everyone thinks they are BS unless they agree with what you think...Then again when is last time any of you answered a called poll...The last one I answered was so obviously designed to be biased it was laughable..

Having said that the latest Online AT&T poll shows McCain 48% Obama 43% undecided at 8%.....SO the McCain supporters will say Yey and the OBama supporters will say Ney

I don't Like either one of them....Obama is a media created illusion with delusions of grandor....All Style and NO Substance..

McCain Reminds me of the Old Fart Neighbor who tell kids to get off his lawn...

The only real edge McCain has is he is Actually qualified and sticks to his posistions....Obama does not have any posistions....Someone Please Tell me what this Man Believes in or what his posistion is on anything?....From what I have seen of his Voting Record he is just another Talking Point, Finger Pointing, Do Nothing Liberal who's Ideas have very little in common with the views of the average American....

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Uri:

@dodo:
What does everyone want from McCain's shoes?
They probably cost less than a pocket on Obama's fancy tailored suits, whereas McCain's look like they're from the men's warehouse or Macy's at best

Seriously, these people have a private plane, 20 high-paid consultants, a makeup person, a wardrobe person, etc., etc. And one of them is a lawyer who easily makes 500$ an hour. Are the shoes really the issue among all the wasted money?

The big waste is media advertising.

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Uri:

@TheVoice99: Technically, your Messiah only got to where he is because of all those "new excited independents and republicans" coming to vote for him. Since Bush won the previous two elections, you would need his former voters to switch camps.

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Tybo:

"The real debate should be about what Obama is doing to win over this demographic of white voters. His outreach has been ineffective and also minimal."

He seems to be going out of his way to antagonize them.

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Undecided:

What does TheVoice99 not understand about daily tracking polls?

They show bumps and dips depending on momentary hype or controversies. Overall they show a trend which to date has been pretty well static. That there is a tie is something to watch and compare to the parallel events. Is it an Obama failing or a McCain success? The analysts try and ferret that out... and it is actually the entertaining part of campaigns...along with the injected humor. But then again, I have for several years watched the Tour de France on TV when I already know who won that stage for the day (and there are 21 stages).

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Undecided:

Maybe when Obama has 20 more years of success he will have 10 mansions (Do ranch houses count as mansions?).

Anyway, speaking of fashion... if Obama is supposed to be so cool then why are his pants too short (they ride up way too high when he is seated and when he walks) and his collar too tight (he keeps fingering his collar when he speaks)? And when he plays basketball he wears sweats with his t-shirt tucked in. My teenage son says Obama's wardrobe reminds him of Steve Erkel ("Family Matters" comedy)....I highly recommend that he consult with Sean Coombs (Puff Daddy, Diddy, P. Diddy, and Puffy) on his wardrobe... He does have great fashion sense and a line of clothing (Sean John).

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Timmeh:

National polls, especially daily tracking polls, are completely useless before the conventions. They should be basically ignored. The state polls are what really matter right now and throughout the process. National polls have historically proven to be completely inaccurate this far away from the election.

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Undecided:

Rasmussen is the same today (Saturday).

See also link titled "Number of Democrats in U.S. Declines in July" http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/party_affiliation/partisan_trends

"The Democrats now have a 7.6 percentage point advantage over the Republicans, down from a 9.5 percentage point advantage in June and 10.1 percentage points in May."... (Note: These are all adults and not likely voters.)

The August numbers used for weighting the data for daily tracking are as follows: "40.6% Democrat, 31.6% Republican, and 27.8% unaffiliated." This is little changed from July.

And in this mix is the following poll result: "There are nearly twice as many uncommitted voters today as there were four years ago in late July (14%-8%)."
http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/in_white_house_race_twice_as_many_voters_uncommitted_compared_to_four_years_ago


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TheVoice99:

Undecided/tybo/uri -


Again you show a complete lack of understanding about daily tracking polls. It is all noise. Look at the flucuations over the last few months - mccains numbers haven't changed and neither has obama's. Please look up the meaning of the word "noise" in relation statistical relevance. Thanks.

Uri - your argument is weak yet again. A guy who wears $600 shoes has no business calling someone who was on food stamps elitist. Maybe you should watch the video from CNN at the bottom of this link to obtain a quick refutuation of "Obama's custom suits" argument. See, that didn't hurt so much, did it?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/isabel-wilkinson/a-week-in-john-mccains-sh_b_115692.html

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TheVoice99:

You know what is funny undecided - the voter registration drive has barely started for team obama......heh.

Who are repubs going to register....kkk members are already repub, evangelicals don't like mccain.......maybe farm animals? Yeah! Farm animals for mccain!

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SullaSPQR:

URI:

Sulla stands for Lucius Cornelius Sulla, and SPQR stands for Senātus Populus Que Rōmānus, which means the Senate and People of Rome. Sulla has always fascinated me. Given that you'd think I'd be a a conservative, but in fact, I'm a liberal Democrat. There's no point in arguing over which side is better. Obviously, I believe the GOP is a den of iniquity and its policies are shortsighted and lead to the disaster we find ourselves in now, but I am never going to convince you and you are never going to convince me. What's the point?

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Stillow:

TheVoice99, kkk members? It is exactly those type of comments that our system is in such shambles. Instead of debatign the issues with ideas, you make dopy comments like that. The only well known kkk member I know of currently in any high office is Robert Byrd (D).
When are we all goign to move beyond idiotic statements like this guy's kkk statement and actually discuss issues and real solutions? Instead of one liners and boneheaded statements...

And most of you miss the point, these days its not really Dem vs. Repub anymore, its liberal vs. conservative. Congress, espeically the House, is filled with conservative dems and there are quite a few liberal repubs. I think the party labels are on the way out and the divide is cons vs. libs.

And the # of RV's always favors the left, the GOP relies heavily on crossover votes. Because your typical democrat is usually a pretty traditional person with traditional values.

If liberals want to push there agenda thru, do it with a debate on ideas and not lame statements about kkk.This country needs a serious debate about issues instead of each side simply repeatign the same old rhetoric they've been spewing for decades.

You basically have one side who wants the g'ment to do everything for everyone and manage your life totally with heavy regulations and control over personal freedoms....and you have hte other side which wants no regulation at all, very small g'ment, a free market approach to everything and let the pieces fall where they will........I ttell you, somewhere in the middle of thsoe two extremes is a reasonable answer. All left solutions would be a disaster and all right solutions a disaster, why are we as people these days unable to reasonably debate and compromise? Do we care more about our hate for the other side these days than we do about actually working together as fellow citizens?

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TheVoice99:

"discuss issues and real solutions"

- That is fresh, coming from a mccain supporter. Do I need to mention britney? Or paris? Or moses? C'mon hypocrite, do you have some more *stuff* you want to hurl.....?


By the way, I stand by my kkk statement. Ever take a look at this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8J9laUNgL4

Now, before you say black people feel the same way, show me a video that shows black people saying they would never vote for a white candidate (or calling whites sub-human). YOU CAN'T. You know why, genius?? Because black people have been voting for white candidates all their life - they didn't have a choice.

- As far as regulation goes - I think we have seen what happens the last 8 years with little regulation. The govt had to step in at the last minute multiple times this year because bush (your guy) was asleep at the wheel. Oh free markets are cute and nice, but when billionaires take ridiculous risks with your mortgages, they aren't so cute and nice any more, are they?

What personal freedoms do these bogeyman "liberals" want to take away, the right to pick your butt? The right to fart in public? What exactly? And why don't you have a problem with Bush and his cronies spying on everyone without a warrant?? Isn't that a personal freedom? History will show that this administration has done more to take away personal freedoms than all Democratic administrations combined. More hypocrisy......hmmpf, why am I not surprised?


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GreatKuzoo:

Voice 99

We already know who the Dems will register.
Funny, how many deceased people end up voting Democratic every year...OR, I don't know, How many Illegals would the Dems like to try and get registered to get out and vote..Gee, Is it any wonder the Dems want to do away with anykind of government issued picture ID requirement to vote.
Meanwhile the Dems attempt to block as many overseas votes from service men being counted as possible... Current Administration wants to use Fedex this Election to Speed up the process..The Postal Union is going..Well, Postal..Gee, I wonder who is behind that....Only 300,000 out of over 1 million overseas absentee votes counted last election because they took to long to be delivered..
Imagine That...

Den of iniquity indeed...Take a Long Look in the Mirror PAL...You Lib Dems are not any kind of Solution as it is also YOUR Tired, Old, and FAILED Policies which have been for far too long a Part of the Problem and further degredation of this country as


Time for a 3rd party in this country..

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TheVoice99:

Sulla,

Uri is a hillbot.

Uri - in reference to the dollar bill.....this is what he was talking about....


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-shaw/reading-the-pictures-emdo_b_116451.html


But what McBush does not want you to know is that his father and grandfather died when they were 70 and 61, respectively. Electing a 72 year old president to the hardest job in the world is not ageism, it's insane. I blame McBush for putting his ambitions first and putting his country in peril if he does manage to get elected. I know this is the 500 pound gorilla in the room but McBush's age is a huge issue. We all saw what happened in Ronald Reagan's second term where Nancy had to run the white house for him in the end. I hope those McBush voters think Cindy will make a good president. The c*nt or trollop (hey, mccain's own words for her) is obviously not even thought of that highly by mcbush himself.

McBush is obviously not qualified to be president. He hates women and Asians, as he has used racial slurs to describe asians and his respect for his wife is shown above. He routinely blurts out misogynistic jokes about women like his famous "gorilla rape" joke. Even Republicans have seen his temper in action and some have said he should be nowhere near "the button". Yikes, when will the media wake up and report this??

____________________

TheVoice99:

I doubt they will, but this is how the Obama campaign should respond to mccain's recent craptastic ads.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgF39TRCPPE

____________________

Stillow:

TheVoice99,

You represent the typical far left person....totally oblivious to the world around them. Did your highly enlightened liberal teachers teach you if hter's a vdieo then it must be true....I can send yo a video of a chicken playing tic tac toe, what does that prove?
I am no MCCain supporter, is he a better chocie than Obama, clearly yes, but I am no McCain supporter.
You guys on the left still think Bush is psying on you code pink conversations? Keep thinking that, its amuses the rest of us.
The lsit of personal freedoms the left wishes to take away is to long to list, it ranges from handguns to bottled water, transfatty foods to smoking...list is way to long....
Your attitude and comments ar those of a child seeking attention as most of the far left attitudes are. This is why the country routinely looks the other direction when a far left agenda is coming at them.
What we need on this site is genuine liberals who can debate without referring to kkk, or scratching their butt, if these comments demonstrate what it is to be an enlightened sophisticated intelectual, thn we are in deep trouble.
TheVoice99......don't forget, if ther's a video or if its on the Internet, its true! Its all true.....

____________________

TheVoice99:

greatcrapzoo,

Wow, so much BS, so little time....are you the troll know as theonlytruth? What, did you get banned again? Anyway...

Yeah, like the stuff dems pulled is even on the same level of outright fraud that was perpetuated by the repubs in '00 and '04. They even made a movie about it for God's sake (Recount on HBO). Repubs accusing Dems of pulling voter fraud is kinda like Hitler calling Mother Theresa "evil".

Having no capacity to understand what went on the last 8 years is rather pathetic.

That is the behavior of a troll. Sorry, but it is.

____________________

TheVoice99:

stillow-

Looks like since you couldn't pull up video evidence like I could, you are content to ramble on......making up BS as you go.

It's pretty sad when your candidate is the one who releases britney and paris ads while you claim to be the more "mature" individual.

The hypocrisy is thick.

Awww, poor baby, you can't get your daily fill of buckets of lard and transfat while playing with your handgun while smoking 6 packs of cigarettes a day in public?? Waaaa.....who is the child now? Keep crying about that. Please, by all means, keep doing all those things in your own home - and make sure you teach those habits to your kids too.

Do you even KNOW why smoking is banned in public places?? Are you really that STUPID??
Do have any IDEA why transfats are banned? Do you know what the word "science" means? I should have known from your previous posts that you just believe what is written in the Bible since you don't "believe" in evolution. I, know, I know, it is just a crazy theory those liberals in charge of the education system invented.

Looks like delusion and paranoia know no bounds.

It never ceases to amaze me the number of utterly STUPID people in this country.....no wonder why the rest of the world points to us and laughs.


____________________

TheVoice99:

Ooops, looks like the greatcrapzoo got crap-slapped. pwned.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/military-donors.html


____________________

Stillow:

TheVoice99
oh, now it all makes sense. You're one of those libs who has no brain of his own and think moves like Recount are actually what happened. I feel bad for you, believing all that propoganda must be making you quite an angry and bitter person. I guess you imagine Darth Vader is real also? My kids watch Mickey Mouse on TV, is that real too? I know liberals by default are much smarter than the rest of us, so help us learn and accept videos and tv shows as fact without pause or question. I bet you'r eone of those guys who think MSNBC has the fairest coverage. Are you by chance a member of the michael moore fan club? Because that guy is charge of the facts.........you heard here it folks, the movie Recount was accurate. A liberal has proclaimed it so...and so it must be. There's a reason far left media like msnbc gets murdered i nthe rartings, because they make stuff up. They create this fantasy in there minds and then convince themselves its true. Its why a radical left host like keith olberman gets like 8 viewers and someone like O'Reailly gets 500,000 a night.......because normal people don't live in fantasy land.
I am not a smoker....what you fail to realize is when you begin banning things i nthe ame of "the public good" where do you draw the line? If I want a fatty greacy dripping with fat cheeseburger, leave me alone. Eventually they will get to soemthing you like. Do you know 4 states have pending legislation to ban smoking in your own home? the left is out of control and they ake no sense, ban smoking, legalize pot, ban fatty foods, but legalize prostituion. The left lcaims to bte the party of choice, ha! Only if they make the choices for you.
Well my all knowing all enlightened freind, its been fun, but i have plans with the kids. And yes, we're taking an evil suv.....
Just don't forget, if it son tv, it mus tbe true, if there's video its fact. .... liberals are smart, cons are not.....please bare with us cons and try to show s the light....I truly am in awe of you, I hope one day to be as enlightened as you. Hopefully one day I too can take video as fact without question. Soon as we get rid of all these evil repubs clinging to there guns and religion we can things straight.

____________________

Stillow:

Oh....did the rest of the world laugh when we saved them in WW2? Or was it when we stopped the sSoviets from taking over? If only we could be more like France as the Nazi army approached, "We surrendur"
Wait til another world wide event occurs like Iran nuking Israel and watch how fast your European freinds come begging us to solve the problem......Oh that's right, Iran is a peaceful nation, they mean no harm....we're the great Satan, not them. What was I thinking....

____________________

TheVoice99:

stillow -

Pathetic - more bs....it never ends.

Who was president during WWII? Say it, I know you can. So, by your ludicrous argument, we can do whatever we want and be absolute retards, because we helped win WWII about 70 years ago?? IS THAT YOUR ARGUMENT?? ROTFLMAO. What a joke.

By the way, I think that you should be able to smoke in your home. If you want to give yourself and your kids cancer, go for it. But since President Obama will install a govt health care plan, you will be paying for your own treatment. How? By taxing cigarettes.....very heavily.


Who said WE were the great "SATAN"?? My, your neurons must be crossed up within your brain. You keep wanting to attribute random ridiculous things to liberals. Maybe in your mixed up little brain, you think, "Hmmm, liberals hate the Iraq war, they must hate all wars...they are our enemy! Murica number one man, damn those commie-liberals!" Is that how your thought process works?? Maybe you should look up a little word in the dictionary called NUANCE. That might help you....but probably not....

Let me just beat down one of your other bogus arguments:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/10/countdown-beats-oreilly-f_n_106298.html

Boom goes the dyn-o-mite! Sorry if that hurt, stillow.

It is so sad how you can't even make consistent arguments. You want all these things that are known to KILL people to be okay for use within your home, but still want pot to be ILLEGAL! WHAT?!?! Are you a libertarian? Obviously not. You are just a sorry old hypocritical conservative who can't even see the inanity of your "arguments".

If you can't even put together a logical, rational argument, then why are you posting here......please go amuse yourself at foxnews.com.....you know those same guys that said the Iraq war was a great idea. Yup, they are the SMART ones.


____________________

GreatKuzoo:

Voice 99

What's the matter..Did my "Truth" strike a Nerve because you know it to be so.. This is obvious, since in typical Sniveling Liberal Fashion you must resort to Name Calling when a point is made....and YES my point was made..You Dems have done more to destroy democracy in this country than any other Party...You do it Everytime you get a Sniveling Liberal activist court to overturn a valid election because the results don't coincide with your Craptastic ideals..Do you serioulsy think your views represent the Majority of the people..If so, why do you Libs have to resort to such tatics again and again to thwart the Will of the People..DO YOU think you are so much Smarter than everyone else? Do you feel you must protect us from ourselves?...Arogant Bores..The Lot of Ya.. Do YOU still think AL GORE won that election?..LOL.GET OVER IT....OH...Gee...Hollywood Made a Movie about the Election...Then it Must be True!! OMG I have been wrong all along...Fffffffttt!!!!

Here is a Poll question even you will Understand

Which is true?.. A. You are really that Intellectualy Vapid or B. You are really that stupid. Question must be answered in order for poll to be accurate.

Also, I DO Understand that A lot of the problems we have today, both Domestic and Abroad are ALSO the results of the FAILED Policies of last Sniveling Democrat to be President coming home to Roost.. Maybe he should have been paying more attention to Stopping Osama and less on Monica giving him Blowjobs in the Oval Office....There's a "Truth" for Ya...

____________________

Stillow:

I cannot help buy pitty you.....we can all only hope on day you grow up.

By the way, the guns you mock me for...in 1982 when an armed intruder borke into my mother's house at 1:20AM in the great city of Cleveland, OH, he was unsuccessful. As he was met with a bullet from a handgun owned by my mother....had she now owned a handgun, she would most likely not be with us any longer. So before you liberals tell me I cannot protect my home and family perhaps an intruder should enter your own home with an intent that is not so pleasant.

____________________

TheVoice99:

greatcrapzoo....


Another pathetic childish rant. Awww, poor baby, mad that the entire WORLD mocks Bush, routinely referring to him as a retarded chimp??

And yet you want to criticize bill clinton - oh, yes, who could forget 8 years of peace and prosperity. Oh, I hated those days. Geee, give me 8 years of bush FUBAR-ing everything. Yup, sounds good to me.

What's with the random capitalizing? Are you on crack? Oh that's a silly question, the content of your post answers that.

So you have a problem with the movie, Recount. Hmmm, interesting. Now, which FACTS in the movie have you shown to be untrue? Any? Oh, you haven't even seen it. Oh, I see. Makes sense for you to talk about it then.

Pleaee put down the crack-pipe before posting here.....or just venture on to fauxnews.com, I'm sure you'll be in similar company over there. Thanks.

____________________

TheVoice99:

stillknownothing-

WOW, the never ending stream of BS is remarkable! Thanks for proving my last post about your neurons by the way. As far as I'm concerned, you should be able to have a bazooka in your house. Make sure the kids know where it is too, since they might have to "protect" the house......

According to the Violence Policy Center, since 1962, 650,000 people have been killed, intentionally or unintentionally by hand guns. Evidently, despite the maxim, guns do kill people. And even that doesn’t tell the story — in a seven-year period between 1990 and 1997, 110,000 people died from gunshot wounds. 89,000 of those came from hand guns. On average, about 80 percent of those who are shot to death in the United States are killed by hand guns. And just 1.4 percent of those killings, on average, are self-defense shootings. The other 98.6 percent of shootings are homicides, suicides and accidental deaths. In fact, someone is four times more likely to be accidently killed by a hand gun than saved from attack by one.

Despite the stats, I think you should have a handgun in your house - in fact, you should have 100. Maybe some ak-47s as well. Especially in the kids' rooms. Ya never know when they will have to defend themselves from a pedophile.


Another pwning! Thanks for playing though.

____________________

GreatKuzoo:

Voice 99
I am NO fan of Bush....

But Peace and Prosperity?..PLEASE!!....Heh!
Let's examine what Good Ole Bill's Policies have gotten us
Clinton balances the budget by gutting the military and our overseas hard intelligence gathering mechanisms..Bill Declares we have no real enemies now that the Soviet Union has Fallen..Costing us now Hundreds of Billions of Dollars to rebuild..OH Yeah..I forgot..He is the smartest man ever..Well, We all know how that Has Turned out...OH and by the Way...If Bill had done his JOB in Regards to OSAMA...Would we be even having this converation...NO...Dumbass..Let's see, how many times did Islamic Extremist attack us under Bills watch Yet he Did Nothing of relivance...GEE he did not even do the Decent Liberal thing and try to "Understand the Terrorist"....Snicker.....But I guess even though George W was not even in Office Yet...Those Attacks were his fault as well....


Bill brought us the Internet Prosperty..and the Bust....OOPs there goes that prosperity.....Enron and Other Financial Accounting fraud Debacles Under Bush's Watch...YES.. but is layed squarely at the feet of Democrats as they control the comittees in charge of the oversite and rules created under Bill Clinton's Adnministration......Thousands loose everything, Home, Jobs, Retirement....Yeah..Libs...You So Smart...

But since ALL you Can do and say is nothing but Bush Bash and say that what everyone else has to say is just childish rants and Bull****...All I will say is.. Thank You..You Just Prove My Point...A Sniveling Liberal will never allow the issues to be confused by the FACTS...

Too Bad SO Sad...I pity you...Really..I do..

Or as Bill would Say..." I feel your pain "

____________________

SullaSPQR:

Kuzoo,

How can you say liberal policies got us in the mess we are in? The GOP has been in control for 8 years? The New Deal was the greatest thing this country ever did and it paved the way for broad prosperity. Why don't you just admit that you want to repeal Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, Unemployment Insurance, and bring us back to the Gilded Age when there was mass poverty, especially among the elderly, but at least those at the top like JP Morgan and the robber barons did well, and the rest of us had to live at their sufferance. If you would admit it that that's what you want, I could at least respect you for telling the truth.

____________________

TheVoice99:

Don't bother sulla. Kuzoo obviously took the short bus to school. It is like trying to teach a retarded chimp calculus. No matter how good your instruction, you are still talking to a retarded chimp.

I guess greatkrapzoo forgot about the whole Iran-Contra mess under reagan (how did that turn out by the way), trickle-down economics.....I hear some people are still waiting for that trickle, and the REAL start of the end of intelligence gathering since it was under Reagan that policies were instituted to prevent cooperation with "shady" operatives. Hmmm, how else were you going to find out when people were going to bomb the WTC? Magic 8-ball? This chimp doesn't even recognize the facts right in front of him.


You can lead a Republican to the facts, but you can't make him think.

____________________

TheVoice99:

You know what's pathetic, sulla? Even after the entire world mocking us for 8 years, Republicans still think they are in the right. I guess the whole effing world is wrong, and a bunch of people who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground are right.

How sad is that? How must it feel to be THAT DUMB?? Are they amused by shiny things? Do they find math difficult? Do they have conversations with utensils?

____________________

GreatKuzoo:

Voice 99
Oh...Really wanna talk weapons for Politcal favors do we....


Right...Under who's Administration did the Chinese get more adavanced Missle Technology only After very suspicious Political Donations from Chinese Lobbyist...Oh Right..Alleged Chinese Lobbyist..That never Happened...Under's who adminstration's nose did the North Koreans Build and Develope their Nuke progam...Again, Thanks Bill for all you did....Who's Adminstration put on the political pressure and made them admit to what was going on....Hmmm

Yeah..Right..You Libs left NO MESS behind at all....Fffftttt!


And I never said the Libs are responsible for everything ....It is you Libs who seem to think that your Failed and Miserable policies bare no responsiblity or accountability for anything...At least I am smart enough to know that the policies of one admistration have far reaching and lasting implications Years down the road..To say you bare NO responsiblity for what is going on is again a Vapid arguement....Bush has had plenty of mess that was created by you Libs to attempt to clean up over the past eight years...

But since voice 99 you are less intellgent than a trained chimp....I don't expect you to understand....Here...Wanna a Banna Boy Lemme peel it for you...

As Far as the other is concerned...At what Point do think I would even want your respect If doing so just means I have to agree to think what you think I do....Typical Sniveling Lib...

____________________

GreatKuzoo:

Oh...Right before I forget....Who's administration thought it would be a brilliant Idea for it to be illegal for the Various intelligence Agencies to share information....There's A FACT staring right back at you Voice 99....But Like you say...You libs bare No Resonsibility for Nothing....

Do nothing of Substance, Say Nothing of Substance, Be Nothing of Substance....

Gee...That would be a Great Obama Sticker...Don't Ya Think...

____________________

SullaSPQR:

Kazoo, typical to resort to ad hominem attacks, sniveling this or that. Unfortunately, you fail to understand that when you call me a Lib, it makes me proud that I am one! If being a conservative means what the U.S. GOP has become, and not true conservatism in the sense of Edmund Burke, then you're the one who should be ashamed!

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
-John Kenneth Galbraith

____________________

GreatKuzoo:

I am a thinking Independent NOT a true conservative in my views at all and I want a Third Party that truly represents the views American People..NOT just the East and West Coast..But I call it as I see it, you libs are just wrong...And like I said before..How Many Valid Elections and Referendums have your activist courts overturned simply because it was not the results you libs wanted..We are going to see it again in California on the Gay Marriage Vote..The Libs will attempt to thwart the Will of the People because you know so much better than anyone else.... SO as far as what party has become what, I think you would do well to look in a mirror before you apply shame to anyone else...After all it usually the Democratic Candidate who must play to the extreme left while attempting to get elected in the center...Who is being disengenuous when a Liberal knows they can't get elected calling themselves what they really are a "Socialist"

____________________

SullaSPQR:

I will waste no more time arguing with you. It's not worth it.

____________________

GreatKuzoo:

Yeah...I understand..easier to quit than admit what I said is TRUE!!!


C'ya in November.....Heh!

____________________

GreatKuzoo:

Voice 99

Seeing your dubious blog page on the accounting on the Money coming from military donations...Hmmmmm

Funny thing though...The Polls show, and I only mention this because I know you are such a strong believer in them, That those in the Military are still heavily favoring McCain

SO...What a posistion the Dems find themselves in, Does this mean they will or will not reverse themselves from the previous election where they tried to disallow as many miltary votes as they could...Hmmmm?

Nobody has Been CrapSlapped...
But I will dub you Captain Craptastic just the same....

____________________

Stillow:

Well of course the soldiers would support McCain....they are choosing between some who was snorting cocaine in his youth or someone who himself was a soldier paying a huge price for his service as he was a POW for years. So while one was literally smoking crack to his own admission, the other was serving his country and was brutally tortured. So its no shocker they would support McCain.
I wonder how many dead people will show up this time and vote for the left, sinc ethe left usually dominates that demographic....the GOP clearly has some work to do in getting more support among the dead.

____________________

SullaSPQR:

No, you're totally wrong. I'd just rather spend time with my family than arguing with someone who's not worth it to me. Later.

____________________

Stillow:

Well good, go sspend time with them, that is a good thing.

____________________

GreatKuzoo:

SullaSPQR

Yawn and Yadda Yadda Yadda....If it was not worth it to you why did you feel the need to to respond...I know..Letting someone else have the last word just irks you....Right?

Stillow....You are correct, Yes the Republicans diffinitly need to increase that deomgraphic...Voice 99 is laughable to imply the Rebulicans are ahead in voter fraud.....Absolute F..ing Joke....(Adolf Hitler calling Mother Teresa Evil I think were his words)...Snicker..
I was a poll watcher in the last elections and people on the other side were getting caught left and right trying to vote at two or more voting stations claiming they messed up and did not think it would count...DOH!!....Even claiming intimidation when they were turned away trying to vote in a district where they were not even registered in...They were confused as to where to vote....Ahem..Right..35 miles from where they live....OK....The Dems will never get over the hanging chad...OH and the HBO account was SO unbiased...Please....yeah...NO agenda there...fffttttt!...
Depspite Voice99 denying it, He knows full well why the Dems are trying so hard to knock down government issued Photo ID's as a requirement to vote...
He and his IlK are not fooling anyone...

Here is THE Inconvient Truth...Al Gore lost the Friggin Election and if he ran today he would Frigging lose again....

____________________

Stillow:

As I put in a previous post, voter fraud is rampent on both sides. It always has been. Its nothing new, its been going on since G. Washington. Unless they totally modernize the system with real identification stanards like thumb prints or eye scans, voter fraud will always be present. One man, one vote is currently a lie.

____________________

TheVoice99:

I tried to warn you sulla....no point at all. I feel so bad for them, like those pathetic, mentally challenged kids on the short bus with drool dripping from their chin ranting in some incoherent language. How sad there are so many in our country. This last clown didn't even know how to spell "intelligent". Yikes. The other one thinks evolution is some crazy "liberal" conspiracy. I say again....yikes. LOL.


"You know what's pathetic, sulla? Even after the entire world mocking us for 8 years, Republicans still think they are in the right. I guess the whole effing world is wrong, and a bunch of people who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground are right.

How sad is that? How must it feel to be THAT DUMB?? Are they amused by shiny things? Do they find math difficult? Do they have conversations with utensils?"

____________________

TheVoice99:

Ohhh, by the way sulla, don't you love that along with crapzoo's nonsensical rants, he actually types out his retarded noises - the random "fffttt". What does that mean? Is he having a seizure? Or just signaling that he is, in fact, mentally challenged?

____________________

Stillow:

Were you the kid picked last in PE class? Making fun of the kids on the short bus isn't very tolerant of you.
If only we could go back to the 90's....Simolia, Bosnia, Waco...the wonder years. Oh ya, the USS Cole, the first world trade center bombings. All the cooking of the books by Enron and Worldcom was in the laste 90's, unless you're on those people who think Enron only smooged the #'s from Feb to July of 2001.....ahhhh yes.
You still just don't get it, both parties are a joke, but keep posting your far left ideas....we are all being enlightened by your left-wing intelligence.
Don't you libs ever wonder why you keep losing elections? Because most of your ideas are insane.
Hey, don't forget to watch Stone's new movie W....its a unbiased movie based on all facts.
Are you on medication by any chance?

____________________

Stillow:

I'm working today on a database migration, but I missed one of your comments, you said despite what i think guns kill people. As a Conservative we feel that the gun kills no one, the person using the gun does the killing. Stating incidents of accidental deaths by guns doesn't hold much wight with us, because so dars cars, or overdoses on perscription drugs....so why does the left want to ban them...now I am being serious for a moment, as a liberal tell me why the gun is to blame instead of the person using the gun. If you ban all guns, criminals won't suddenly stop being criminals, perhaps knife related deaths would go up, would we then ban knives? As a Conservative we feel the individual is to blame, regardless of the tool he uses, its his fault, not the tool of his choice. Some people commit hit and runs on purpose with their car, or they poison others, they stab them, they strangle them, etc, etc...we feel we shouldblame and punish the criminal....so it always confuses me on why libs want to abolish the 2nd amendment....and they do, all nati gun groups are libs and cities with gun bas, DC, Chicago, etc are all run by libs....so in all seriousness from a libs perspective can you explain it to me? Why do you now want to blame the person, but rather the instrument of his choice. Again, I am totally serious right now, no banter on this one, what is the serious reason? We all belieeve in background checks, etc, so to ban them from law abiding people actally does confuse me, shouldn't the person be to blame? Otherwise we have a whole list of things we need to ban that peopleuse to commit crimes with.

____________________

TheVoice99:

I'm only making fun of you and crapzoo - as it is very likely you two had ridden the short bus to school - and maybe are still currently. I'm sorry, I shouldn't pick on people who aren't as well equipped mentally....but I just can't help it. I know, it probably looks like a mauling to some, kinda like Kimbo Slice against an eunuch midget after two rounds in a ring.

On with the mauling....

Like I said, I don't want to ban guns. You should give your kids ak-47s and have them under their bed......you know, for when the anti-Christ returns. So by your deluded logic, all guns should be legal. We should all be armed to the teeth, including machine guns and surface to air missiles. No problems there.....

Why not allow everyone to have nukes as well? That is an "arm" that we have the right to bear. Yes, a chicken in every pot, and a nuke in every home....nice one.

I would expect nothing less from someone who still thinks evolution is a crazy "liberal" conspiracy, that clinton is somehow to blame for Enron and Bosnia and Somalia. That has to be one of the DUMBEST things I have ever heard. And you've said some stupid stuff on this board, but that takes the cake. So Bush is to blame for 9/11 right? Oh, wait that analogy doesn't quite work 100% since he did forget (or was unable) to read that memo saying "Terrorists are planning on flying planes into the towers". Ooops, sorry about that.....he was to blame....at least partially.

Only someone with a non-functioning cerebral cortex would even TRY to argue that the 90's were somehow worse than the last 8 years. How idiotic are you? Is there an actual limit to your stupidity or is it like an endless geyser of putrid feces?


____________________

TheVoice99:

Here's an interesting perspective from a gun owner -


___________________________________________

Handguns serve only one purpose: to kill people

Isn't it ironic that more handgun deaths are attributed to owners committing suicide than from any other cause, and that doesn't even include all the accidental handgun deaths? I listen to NRA handgun extremists' claims of self protection from criminals. They live in fear of some imaginary intruder or a black helicopter government agent coming into their home, and yet the most dangerous person they will ever meet is the guy they see in the mirror each morning.

Handgun advocates insist they need concealed weapon laws to keep the wild west under control, but these lenient laws enacted in Kentucky certainly haven't prevented horrible acts of violence in our own community.

Handguns are not the answer to our society's thirst for blood and vengeance. Violence only begets more violence. I am an avid hunter and gun owner, but handguns don't serve as a necessary requirement for reasonable sportsmen. A shotgun will serve to protect homeowners much better than a handgun, and self-inflicted deaths and accidents will be next to nothing.

I hear so many immature handgun owners making macho comments like, "Let them try that when I'm around, and I will blow them away with my 357." Handguns are only good for one thing: to kill people. More handguns in the hands of irresponsible and unreasonable people are not the answer. If handguns are more available, maybe we should outlaw testosterone. I doubt there have been many mass murders with knifes.

The police see the violent results, and that is why they also support stronger handgun laws. Our right-wing Supreme Court strikes down handgun bans, and it is the same irrational court that allows child rapists to avoid the death penalty. Where's the logic and common sense in that? With leadership and rulings like that, is it any surprise America is the most violent country on the face of the earth?

Glenn Hall
___________________________________________

____________________

TheVoice99:


"If guns made people safer, America would be the safest nation on earth."


- So why aren't we? Let me guess, all those big bad liberals out there right......they must be somehow responsible.


____________________

TheVoice99:

The "Price of Freedom"

During the 1980s, NRA Executive Vice President Harlon Carter wrote a monthly column for the NRA’s magazines titled “The Price of Freedom.” According to Carter, the “price of freedom,” measured in gun death and injury, could never be high enough to justify restrictions on the NRA’s self-perceived “right” to buy and use all types of firearms. Wrote Carter, “Nowhere is it said that we may not pay a high price for these rights.

It is popularly said that the right to protect one’s life, the right to keep and bear arms, costs lives. This is said without an adequate measure that more lives are saved by arms in good hands than are lost by arms in evil hands….The paramount point to be made is that our `unalienable rights’ may not be infringed by government merely because they suggest difficulties or because they are socially or politically inconvenient or even because they may at times be painful.”

Two decades and more than a half million lives later, and despite a complete lack of reliable evidence that the unfettered access to firearms holds any benefit for society, the gun lobby’s view hasn’t changed. The day in and day out toll that gun death and injury inflicts on America—children killed in drive-by shootings, angry husbands shooting their entire families, alienated youths opening fire on their classmates, disgruntled employees shooting up their former workplaces, or hate-filled individuals shooting innocent people because they belong to a particular racial or religious group—will never exceed the NRA's “price of freedom.”

http://www.vpc.org/pof.htm

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TheVoice99:

I wouldn't expect you to understand stillow. You selectively believe in the Constitution anyway, as you have posted in the past.

But a government has a responsibilty to protect its citizens - thereby the bans on transfats and smoking that you keep bitching about. Guns are similar to that.......some areas like DC and Chicago have decided they have had enough kids murdered by guns.

Oh yeah, two words for ya:

Virginia Tech.


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GreatKuzoo:

Voice99

You are a hopless retard who simply skews the facts to fit your own warped mind

Just another example of an intollerant Sniveling Lib....

I would really like to see things from your point of view...Really I would...I just can't seem to manage to get my head that far up my ass...

Amazing that even though Washington DC had the most stringent Anti-guns laws on the books they still had some of the highest crime rates involving guns in the U.S. So much for Anti Gun Laws...Criminals don't abide by the Law...Doofus...That's why they are criminals...You think putting more laws on the books is going to protect you...Who is going to enforce the Law?...The Same Police force who can't protect you now...right?...Right..

The Welfare Class and the Continued Poverty in Urban Areas created by your parties FAILED and Miserable Policies is where you really need to look

I would hate to belong to a Party who knows a large part of it's constituancy must be "Kept Poor" in order to Keep their votes...The Democratic Party has NO real Political Incentive to lift these people out of poverty..That is why every election they trot out the Same Old Tired Ads about Republicans wanting to take away all their benefits.

All you libs have done is created another SLAVE class in this country and YOU are Content to keep them there as long as they serve your purpose....

Yours is sick and twisted party....

I would rather be able to be taught to FISH and become self reliant than to be kept down and oppressed by a party who wants to keep me Dependent on them to get my Fish....

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TheVoice99:

More retarded rantings from the greatcrapzoo...... good stuff buddy, keep it coming.

It is extremely difficult to legislate or regulate guns when there is an active black market and a huge stock of existing guns. When the people who value guns the most are the ones who use them in the drug trade, there is next to nothing you can do to keep the guns out of their hands. What you would need is a literal nation wide ban and crackdown. Simply - not going to happen.

It also depends on the market. For the United States, which has a very active arms manufacturing industry and a huge stockpile of weapons in secret caches all across the nation in both corporate and private hands… banning guns may be really tough.

However, in say, post monarchial Britain, where the previous regimes always tried to keep guns in the hands of the military and not in private ownership- its easier to regulate guns. And thus, Britain's homicide rate is sharply less than the US’s.

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TheVoice99:

More stats for you, although I doubt it will help your little pea brain as you seem to have trouble with little things called FACTS.

__________________________________________

In homes with guns, a member of the household is almost three times as likely to be the victim of a homicide compared to gun-free homes.

Among handgun homicides, only 193 (2.3 percent) were classified as justifiable homicides by civilians.

http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/hgbanfs.htm


The United States accounted for 45 percent of the 88,649 gun deaths world-wide reported in the study, the first comprehensive international scrutiny of gun-related deaths.

The gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in 1994 by country were as follows:

U.S.A. 14.24
Brazil 12.95
Mexico 12.69
Estonia 12.26
Argentina 8.93
Northern Ireland 6.63
Finland 6.46
Switzerland 5.31
France 5.15
Canada 4.31
Norway 3.82
Austria 3.70
Portugal 3.20
Israel 2.91
Belgium 2.90
Australia 2.65
Slovenia 2.60
Italy 2.44
New Zealand 2.38
Denmark 2.09
Sweden 1.92
Kuwait 1.84
Greece 1.29
Germany 1.24
Hungary 1.11
Ireland 0.97
Spain 0.78
Netherlands 0.70
Scotland 0.54
England and Wales 0.41
Taiwan 0.37
Singapore 0.21
Mauritius 0.19
Hong Kong 0.14
South Korea 0.12
Japan 0.05


http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=6166


OOPS! Did I just shoot down another bogus NRA talking point? Yup, yes, I did! It is pathetic who you right-wing retards can't even admit that we have millions who have died from unnecessary gun deaths and then say stupid **** like "criminals kill people, not guns". Hmm, funny, why is it that if you add up nearly the entire world - they don't have as many gun deaths as we do? Sure they use knives and other **** to kill people, but how many less people can a criminal KILL with a knife??

Think about this dimwits, how many kids would that asian guy at Virginia Tech have killed with a bunch of knives?? Hmmm? one, maybe?

What about Columbine - how many kids would have died there? One or two?


DO YOU KNOW HOW UTTERLY STUPID YOU SOUND??

The NRA and the gun manufacturers have done a great job arming Americans that it will be nearly IMPOSSIBLE to take guns off the streets, since there are an estimated 192 million firearms in civilian hands. All a gun ban would do is make guns more expensive for criminals.

______________________________________________

Even after the entire world mocking us for 8 years, Republicans still think they are in the right. I guess the whole effing world is wrong, and a bunch of people who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground are right.

How sad is that? How must it feel to be THAT DUMB?? Are they amused by shiny things? Do they find math difficult? Do they have conversations with utensils?

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GreatKuzoo:

Voice99...

All I will say is this....

Most, NOT ALL of the Gun Deaths and Gun Crimes or Drug Related Gun Crimes in this Country are in the Poorer Urban areas....As My Previous Post explained...It is you Dems who have created the mess and continue to Keep it a Mess for you own Politcal Agenda...Now you want to tell the rest of us we cannot and should not be allowed to protect ourselves from YOUR mess...

Your Hopeless and You will Never convince me you are right on any of these issues...

I see that you want to leave out the FBI statistics on how many crimes or criminals were stopped by those carrying concealed weapons..How Convienient

As far as the the Lower Number of Deaths in other foreign countries...Compare their population totals to ours...Compare the Cultural diffrences and Diversness in their populations to ours

If things are SO much better in the Rest of the World...Well..The last time I Looked this was a FREE Country which means YOU are FREE to Leave as well...

____________________

GreatKuzoo:

Oh....And Since we have so many more traffic fatalities per year than any other country because we have mores cars than any other country I guess we should put a Total Ban on cars as well...

Same Logic Applies...

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SullaSPQR:

Sad indeed Voice 99. About 50% of the U.S. along with the vast majority of every other country in thr world, including world leaders from right wing parties that should favor McCain, are in favor of Barack Obama winning the Presidency (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/conservative/2445951/Tory-MPs-abandon-Republicans-to-back-Barack-Obama.html); and (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/07/25/sarkozy-obama%E2%80%99s-my-buddy/). Who's really out of touch then, huh?

____________________

GreatKuzoo:

Voice 99

Or better known as Captain Craptastic

I will leave you and your fellow Anti-Gun Simpletons with this last bit to ponder

Come back and Talk about Anti-Guns when you are ready to talk about

Anti-Violence in the MOVIES, TV, VIDEO GAMES, MUSIC Anti gang glorification and any other Bilge coming from your sniveling Lib buddies in the entertainment industry which they VOMIT onto our youth at Nauseum...All for the sake of making a dollar...

Maybe then the youth of this country would be less fascinated with Guns, DEATH..KILLING..

Or as a Typical sniveling Lib do you feel this has NO Bearing on what is happening to our Youth?

GUNS have been a constant in this country..
This Country was founded at the end of one
They have been massed produced and available as such since after WWII

Did we have this problem in the 50's NO..60's..NO...70's..NO...It was not until the late 80's did this Crapola start to Rear it's ugly head...WHY?...What Changed?...Values my Feeble Minded Friend...Values..

About the Same time..OH I don't know The Liberal Values you Cling SO Proudly started Spewing Forth onto society as a whole..

You Don't Want your lungs polluted by Second Hand Smoke...And We don't Want Are Youth's Minds Poisoned by YOUR Warped Degrated Value System...

Vote McCain in 08

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GreatKuzoo:

[comment deleted]

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TheVoice99:

[comment deleted]

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TheVoice99:

Umm, what, like that was anymore offensive than the trash the great crapzoo has been spewing.....

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TheVoice99:

[comment deleted]


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GreatKuzoo:

[comment deleted]

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GreatKuzoo:

[comment deleted]

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