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POLL: Daily Tracking (8/30 - 9/1)


Gallup Poll
8/30-9/1/08; 2,772 RV, 2%
Mode: Live Telephone Interviews

National
Obama 50, McCain 42


Rasmussen Reports
8/30-9/1/08; 3,000 LV, 2%
Mode: IVR

National
Obama 51, McCain 45

 

Comments
OGLiberal:

Obama seems to be getting a bigger bounce from 3 days of Palin than he did from 3 days of the Dem convention. And he's reached/crossed the magical 50% mark in both daily trackers. Hmm....

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mattn:

Apparently, the USA Today Gallup poll is not independent of the tracking poll:
http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/09/a_note_about_the_latest_usa_to.html

This probably needs to be fixed in the overall average.

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Stillow:

I think most of us were expecting him to bounce up 6-8 points after his convention was over. We will have Palin and McCain speeches this week o nthe natioanl stage....they will need to counter the bounce. If they are still down 6-8 by the time the debates start, it will be really tough to come back.

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Brutus1_:

You want to talk QUALIFICATIONS???

1980 - 1984

Obama: B.A. in political science with a specialization in international relations from Columbia University.

Palin: Wasilla High School, captain of the state-champion basketball team. Miss Wasilla, runner-up in the Miss Alaska pageant, also Miss Congeniality, although that is now disputed.

Him: Ivy League degree.
Her: Tiara.

1985 - 1990

Obama: moved to Chicago; became a community organizer as director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization on Chicago's far South Side. During his three years as the DCP's director, its staff grew from 1 to 13 and its annual budget grew from $70,000 to $400,000, with accomplishments including helping set up a job training program, a college preparatory tutoring program, and a tenants' rights organization.

Moved to Boston to attend Harvard Law School. Selected as an editor and then elected president of the Harvard Law Review, a full-time volunteer position functioning as editor-in-chief and supervising the law review's staff of 80 editors.

Palin: Bachelor of Science degree in communications-journalism, with a minor in political science from the University of Idaho. Brief stint as a sports reporter for local Anchorage television stations; left to join her husband in commercial fishing.

Him: Sterling legal education.
Her: Sportscaster.


1991 - 1995

Obama: Graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard Law School; received contract and advance to write a book ("Dreams from my Father") as well as a fellowship at the University of Chicago Law School. Directed the Illinois Project Vote from April to October 1992, a voter registration drive with a staff of 10 and 700 volunteers that achieved its goal of registering 150,000 of 400,000 unregistered African Americans in the state, leading Crain's Chicago Business to name Obama to its 1993 list of "40 under Forty" powers to be. Appointed as a Lecturer in constitutional law at the University of Chicago. Joined Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland, a 12-attorney law firm specializing in civil rights litigation and neighborhood economic development. Active in several community organizations, usually as a board member.

Palin: member of the Alasaka Independence Party which advocates "Alaska First". Elected to Wasilla city council.

Him: Expert on our nation's fundamental legal principles.

Her: Plotted to leave the Union; thinks Pledge of Allegiance was written by our founding fathers, doesn't know what a Vice President does.

1996 - 2000

Obama: Promoted to Senior Lecturer in Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago Law School. Elected to the Illinois Senate. Sponsored more than 800 bills. In 2000, lost a Democratic primary run for the U.S. House of Representatives to four-term incumbent Bobby Rush by a margin of two to one.

Palin: elected as mayor of Wasilla (population 5,470), defeating the incumbent by a total of 616 votes to 413. Town budget, $8 million (3 millionths of the Federal budget), approximately 100 employees. Reduced property taxes but increased sales taxes. Fired the Wasilla police chief, citing a failure to support her administration. (He then sued Palin on the grounds that he was fired because he supported the campaign of Palin's opponent, but his suit was dismissed when the judge ruled that Palin had the right under state law to fire city employees, even for political reasons.) Hired a DC lobbyist to bring $27 million in earmarks to the city. Wasilla had zero debt when she entered office but she left it with indebtedness of over $22 million, including $15 million-plus for construction of a hockey center which was built on a piece of property that the city didn’t even have clear title to, a matter that is still in litigation. Attempted to ban books from the city library.

Him: Sponsored 800 bills.
Her: Swayed 616 voters.


2001 - 2004

Obama: Reelected in 2002 and became chairman of the Illinois Senate's Health and Human Services Committee.

Publicly spoke out against the invasion of Iraq BEFORE the congressional authorization in 2002, and then again before the actual invasion in 2003.

Wrote and delivered the keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention.

November 2004: elected to the US Senate, receiving over 3.5 million votes, more than 70% of total.

Palin: elected president of the Alaska Conference of Mayors. Unsuccessful bid for lieutenant governor, coming in second in a five-way race in the Republican primary, receiving 19,000 votes. Appointed to the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, served as chairman from 2003 to 2004 and also served as Ethics Supervisor. Resigned in protest over the "lack of ethics" of fellow Republican members. Exposed the state Republican Party's chairman, Randy Ruedrich, for doing party work on public time and working closely with a company he was supposed to be regulating. Director of Ted Stevens' 527 group.

Him: Demonstrated the wisdom to oppose the Iraq folly before it even began.

Her: Hasn't "really thought much about Iraq" - despite the fact that 17 Alaskans have died there

2005 to present

Obama: Sworn in as the fifth-ever African-American U.S. senator. Worked with Republican Senator Lugar to author and implement a program to locate and dismantle stray Russian WMD's. Designated by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid as the party's point man on ethics. Worked with Russ Feingold to pass a major ethics/lobbying reform bill. Cosponsored, with John McCain, the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act. Called for increased fuel efficiency standards (3 percent every year for 15 years). Assignments on the Senate Committees for Foreign Relations, Veterans' Affairs, and Homeland Security. Chairman of the Senate's subcommittee on European Affairs. As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia and Africa. Waged a tremendous battle to become the Democratic presidential nominee. Currently manages 2,500 campaign employees and a budget of $40-$50 million/month.

Palin: 2005: Board member, Valley Hospital Association, which runs the Mat-Su Regional Medical Center in Wasilla.

Became youngest and first female Governor of Alaska, taking office in December, 2006. Received 114,600 votes. The population of Alaska is 683,478 and more than 50% of the state budget comes from oil revenues, not taxes as in other states. Gross State Product: $44 billion (including the oil revenue). Ranking 45 of 50.
Auctioned off the Governor's jet on eBay. Took on fellow-Republican Senator Ted Stevens to come clean about the federal investigation into his financial dealings. Promoted oil and natural gas resource development in Alaska. Helped pass a tax increase on oil company profits. Formed a sub-cabinet group of advisers to address climate change but does not accept that it is man-made. Objected to listing polar bears as an endangered species because it might hurt oil and gas development in the bears' habitat. Was for the bridge to nowhere before she was against it. However, Alaska kept the federal money. Denied her daughter was pregnant before she confirmed it. Supported abstinence-only education. Currently under a bipartisan investigation for abuse of power for dismissing Alaska's Public Safety Commissioner. Commander-in-Chief of the Alaska National Guard, but has played no role in national defense activities, even when they involve the Alaska National Guard. (The entire operation is under federal control, and the governor is not briefed on situations.)

Obtained her first passport in 2007 to perform visits to the Alaska National Guard in Kuwait and Germany. (Foreign experience so limited that a stopover in Ireland listed on her resume.)

Him: Impressive figure on the national stage who knows how Congress works and is engaged with foreign policy issues.

Her: small state governor for 21 months; "next to Russia", but that is just 1 of the 190 countries in the world she has never been to.


Conclusion: the word "executive" is not some kind of magic force multiplier when placed in front of the word "experience". Especially when that "executive experience" is of less than 700,000 people, the approximate size of Fort Worth, Texas.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/2/1613/27485/447/581295

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Brutus1_:

Ironically, by picking a woman to be on his ticket, Mccain reinforces his misogynistic qualities. She is obviously not qualified and was only picked because of her gender. So Mccain's opinion of women voters (and especially women Hillary voters) is that "see, here is a woman, vote for me now, you brain dead fools". Never mind that Palin is socially right wing, including anti-abortion on all counts. Does McCain really think that women are that stupid?? Apparently so.

Taking this into account with his numerous "jokes" he has made about rape, lesbians, Chelsea Clinton, and wife-beating, and couple that with his numerous adulterous affairs and how he treats his current wife, and you get a particularly harsh insight into the soul of this man. He hates women. Period.

I'm still wondering why a "firm handshake" would require a cast like the one Cindy is sporting right now.

This guy is scary - and just plain unstable.

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KipTin:

Like the dailykos has ANY reputation left after the latest false attacks on Palin.

One would think that the elite Obamanation could figure it out that they are now sounding like the old "right wing conspiracy." Embarrassing.

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KipTin:

I see that Brutus1 has now resorted to spamming this website with multiple "copies" of slime and fomenting of rumors.

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Brutus1_:

You mean like fox news and their numerous stories that made them look like brain-dead juveniles??

Remember "terrorist fist jab"???


What a joke repubs have become.


By the way, troll, the DailyKos never published any "false attack". Any idiot, including yourself, can go post a diary there. But some people don't understand nuance. Perhaps you should run along and go look that word up now, junior.

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Brutus1_:

Poor kiptin, I know the facts must hurt. Your pathetic vp candidate is getting torn to shreds. Obama is climbing way ahead. Bush is returning to speak at the convention. Poor knuckle-draggers.....

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bclintonk:

In fairness I think it's BOTH the Democratic convention and the Palin fiasco that are now taking hold. Remember, Obama's big speech, the capstone to the Democratic convention, was late Thursday night. By Friday am McCain had stolen the media attention with the Palin bombshell, then we headed directly into the long holiday weekend. The latest tracking polls are from Sun-Mon, and the results are consistent with other polls taken over a longer stretch of the weekend showing Obama lengthening his lead. McCain has his work cut out for him to undo the damage of the Palin bomb which shows no signs of abating.

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kerrchdavis:

Kiptin, if you don't want to support change in this country, perhaps move to a country with a lower standard of living. Most of us don't want 4 more years of foreign policy blunders, tax breaks for just the super wealthy, a dying economy, huge budget deficits, a lack of social services and an idiot at the helm.

Oh, and btw, your candidate really is falling apart. I can't wait to see Bush endorse him via satellite.

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Stillow:

Fiasco? You lefties just don't get it....you guys are committing mass suicide! Keep slamming her, keep going after her kids, keep making up stroies about her.....in a couple weeks we'll sit here and you guys will be wondering what happened when the backlash hits.

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Andrew_in_California:

So far its working Stillow. Palin has more problems surfacing than Obama did in only a weekend lol.

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Lompe:

McCain gambled big time and (according to the latest polls) lost.
I wouldn't trust McCain with my (tax) money...

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Brutus1_:

stillow -


Good try. Poor Palin will have to step down and let Mitt take over in about 2 days.

Trooper-gate is just starting.....

Get real. You knuckle-dragging/creationist lot are in the minority. You can't prop up this retard like you clowns did with Bush in '00 and '04. Not this time, falt-earthers, not this time.


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kerrchdavis:

Nobody is making up stories about her save a few idiots here and there. Believe me, there is enough to criticize politically without having to get personal. And any right-winger should have NO complaints about personal attacks and made up stories...not when Karl Rove is your chief strategist. BTW, these polls are really confirming your mass suicide theory...

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Stillow:

@Andrew_in_California:


She has not come out yet to address any of it. She will address it tomorrow night in her speech. If the left thinks making stroies up and going after kids is a winner, then please continue. This has 1980 written all over it when whe nthe libs and the media were brutally slamming Reagan....he went directly to the people and the people told the media to sit down and shut up....and put him i nthere twice in huge numbers.

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Andrew_in_California:

Comparing Palin to Regan. I've heard it all. I doubt Palin will be bringing up the skeletons in her closet in her speech at the convention. Talk about playing defense (something Obama was criticized heavily for in his speech).

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Mike_in_CA:

Re: anyone who thinks McCain will counter Obama's "bounce" with his own convention bounce...

I have long been under the opinion that McCain will actually suffer an anti-bounce with his convention, and I think we already sortof see that happening. As the public's attention shifts back to the Republican party, we are reminded of just HOW MANY MISTAKES they have made, both in the last 8 years, and just in the last 40 years in general (with few Democratic intermissions).

Gustav reminded us of Katrina, Bush's speech will remind us that he is linked to McCain inextricably. We are reminded of the Republicans' failures on energy policy, on Iraq, etc etc.

Drawing unpredented attention to a party who's brand is in the crapper will probably only hurt McCain. I think that's why we are seeing almost a "delay" in Obama's bounce. He had a good convention, but it wasn't a deal maker for everyone. Now that everyone's thinking about the failures of Republicans, his support is shooting up. There is ALWAYS a lag in politics.

Now, bring in Palin and her soap opera, tabloid coverage, and this is just headaches all around for McCain. If he can't right the ship in the next few weeks, I think it will be safe to say it's officially over for him.

Obama has crossed the 50% threshold, if he climbs much further, there's probably no looking back. Watch for the RNC convention anti-bounce for McCain..... I sure will.

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Brutus1_:

More retarded analogies form repub trolls. "Like Reagan"?? LOL! good one, I can see Biden now, "I knew Ronald Reagan, Ronald Reagan was a friend of mine. You, Sarah Palin, are no Ronald Reagan."


The hits on Palin just keep coming!! Really, the gift that just keeps on giving!! I love the Palin pick! Thank you John McCain!!!!


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html#postComment

Speaking before the Pentecostal church, Palin painted the current war in Iraq as a messianic affair in which the United States could act out the will of the Lord.

"Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God," she exhorted the congregants. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

Religion, however, was not strictly a thread in Palin's foreign policy. It was part of her energy proposals as well. Just prior to discussing Iraq, Alaska's governor asked the audience to pray for another matter -- a $30 billion national gas pipeline project that she wanted built in the state. "I think God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for that," she said.

A review of recorded sermons by Ed Kalnins, the senior pastor of Wasilla Assembly of God since 1999, offers a provocative and, for some, eyebrow-raising sketch of Palin's longtime spiritual home.

The church runs a number of ministries providing help to poor neighborhoods, care for children in need, and general community services. But Pastor Kalnins has also preached that critics of President Bush will be banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John Kerry in 2004 would be accepted to heaven; charged that the 9/11 terrorist attacks and war in Iraq were part of a war "contending for your faith;" and said that Jesus "operated from that position of war mode."

She is: A FEMALE BUSH (without the experience).


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Stillow:

@Andrew_in_California:


?The comparison was the media and the lefts reaction. Reagan scared the hell out of them and they did everything they could think of to bring him down, he went over the top of them and to the people. Palin scares them i nthe same way, a successful conservative who achieved success without any g'ment programs or entitlements, etc. That is why this massive onslought agaisnt her is going on....bashing her kids, making stuff up about fake pregnancies, now thismorning on MSNBC they are spreading the word NAZI around....her job will be to dismiss the media and go to the people....she will ahv eher chance tomorrow.

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Brutus1_:

Someone needs to put the crack pipe down.....Reagan? Wow. Simply wow. But I've learned not to underestimate the intelligence of creationists.


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cinnamonape:

These rumors were flying all over Alaska, including her home town of Wasilla long before McCain made Palin the nominee. And one has to question Palin's judgement in USING her daughters pregnancy in order to answer the questions about her own. Why didn't she simply reveal her own medical records that would surely show documented check-ups, the tests that indicated the child would be disabled, and the actual birth records? Those official records would have sufficed - and she could have said: "Now leave my family and our personal issues alone."

Instead SHE reveals that her own daughter is "five months" ("trust me, I don't keep secrets") pregnant? That revelation wasn't something that the blogosphere announced...she divulged it (although the Murdoch-owned NY Daily News was onto it, apparently).

It was Palin that exploited her daughter in this case.

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Brutus1_:


There are literally dozens of women in the Republican Party more qualified for the vice-presidency, and better suited to it, than Sarah Palin. As Carville noted, Olympia Snowe is one. Kay Bailey Hutchison is another. Connecticut Governor Jodi Rell is a third.

Why not pick any of these women, if you've decided you have to pick a woman? Well, in the case of these three, it's pretty clear why they're out in the cold.

Each of them supports abortion rights. Now, actually picking one of these women as the Republican vice-presidential nominee in spite of those views would, of course, have been the move of a true maverick, and the move of a man serious about placing the people best prepared for the job in stewardship of our nation.

No wonder John McCain didn't do it.

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kerrchdavis:

What massive personal onslaught are you talking about?? Bad news Stillow...what happens in liberal forums including speculation and rumors is not going to reach the homes of 99% of people voting. If you want someone with the least amount of political experience among presidential and vice presidential candidates in recent history (and by FAR) a heartbeat away from the oval office, you are INSANE. I mean that, you are crazy. Going from governing 300 people to 300 million is not a small step.

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Brutus1_:

There are literally dozens of women in the Republican Party more qualified for the vice-presidency, and better suited to it, than Sarah Palin. As Carville noted, Olympia Snowe is one. Kay Bailey Hutchison is another. Connecticut Governor Jodi Rell is a third.

Why not pick any of these women, if you've decided you have to pick a woman? Well, in the case of these three, it's pretty clear why they're out in the cold.

Each of them supports abortion rights. Now, actually picking one of these women as the Republican vice-presidential nominee in spite of those views would, of course, have been the move of a true maverick, and the move of a man serious about placing the people best prepared for the job in stewardship of our nation.

No wonder John McCain didn't do it.

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NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Lots of venom spewed on this site. All the anger proves Palin was superior choice.

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kerrchdavis:

I agree, Palin was a great choice! Just look at todays polls, troll...

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faithhopelove:

These polls do not include the names of third-party candidates--an inclusion that has tended to favor Obama in other polls. Barr and Nader are the two most likely candidates to receive a significant number of votes; yet they are not on the ballot in every state, or in all of the same states.

Nader, who is more likely to hurt Obama, is not on the ballot in ND, MN, WI, IN, NC, GA, and FL. Barr, who is more likely to hurt McCain, is on the ballot in all of these states except for MN.

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faithhopelove:

These polls do not include the names of third-party candidates--an inclusion that has tended to favor Obama in other polls. Barr and Nader are the two most likely candidates to receive a significant number of votes; yet they are not on the ballot in every state, or in all of the same states.

Nader, who is more likely to hurt Obama, is not on the ballot in ND, MN, WI, IN, NC, GA, and FL. Barr, who is more likely to hurt McCain, is on the ballot in all of these states except for MN.

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faithhopelove:

These polls do not include the names of third-party candidates--an inclusion that has tended to favor Obama in other polls. Barr and Nader are the two most likely candidates to receive a significant number of votes; yet they are not on the ballot in every state, or in all of the same states.

Nader, who is more likely to hurt Obama, is not on the ballot in ND, MN, WI, IN, NC, GA, and FL. Barr, who is more likely to hurt McCain, is on the ballot in all of these states except for MN.

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DocnTN:

It's almost as if the Republicans WANT to lose this year. This is starting to look like Eagleton's offer to withdraw after the 1972 McGovern convention. If I were McCain, I would force Palin to withdraw ASAP and hope for the resuscitation of his campaign with a sane vice-presidential choice.

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Andrew_in_California:

Noone is scared of Palin. Your ability to make strawman arguments about the Left Wing media and how they are "scared" ect. is laughable. Everyone gets their name thrown in the mud from McCain to Biden to Obama. It's Palin's turn and in the process of discovering her she'll get her turn. She's nothing like Regan. She is her own entity and we'll see if she rises to the cause of high profile female politicians or not.

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Stillow:

Again, you guys can all attack her. She has the left scared and the media. I've been watching elections for along long time...I cannot recall a time when the left and the media went after someone this hard...brining up her kids....NPR this mroning was saying the names of he rkids have hidden meanings of some kind of cult...MSNBC is now using the word NAZI. You guys can stick with your partisan views of it, but this is goign to backlash on you. I think tomorrow night she will come out confident and strong....push the media aside and talk directly to the people. I cannot recall a candidate slammed this hard this fast fro mthe left and the media. Its going to backfire on you. You can stick with your partisan ways....the Palin pick has created a frenzie in the media and on the left I have not seen in my years of watching campaigns....I think she is goign to survive your inital attacks and come out of it stronger than ever....keep bashing my lefty freinds, keep bashing!

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Another Mike:

Brutus,

You forgot Palin's time on the PTA!

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NeverMetAnHonestLib:

It's too funny watching liberals conduct their business-as-usual hate campaign against anyone with a proven track record of success.

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mrut:

@Stillow

If you name your kid "Track," you have to expect someone to ask about it. That's not bashing. The other kids seem to be named after TV show characters, a bay in Alaska, and a Nordic god. (Is that the "Nazi" you were talking about?) Interesting, but totally predictable and certainly not surprising or pejorative to ask about the kids' names. People ask about my name and it is perfectly ordinary. I say I was named after my dad.

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marty:

I am glad that someone hasw finally brought upthe name of Eagleton. His withdrawal wa a disaster for McGovern. Palin's withdrawal would be worse for the Repubs, and they understand this. For Palin to withdraw would 1) Totally and finally alienate the shattered Repub "base," and 2) it would make McCain's "judgement" the primary issue that it should always have been. His campaign has been a train wreck b/c it is neither principled nor completely cynical; it has no leadership b/c McC is too old and tired to both campaign and run the campaign, and it is led by a man (McC) who is not very intelligent, easily confused and with a long history of making hair-trigger decisions.

McC wanted Joe Liebermann as his VP; he trusts Lieb's intelligence and political skills. McC's staff would not let him make a choice that would alienate the "base," and he must have either walked away from the selection process or been swayed by some of the soulless, cynical Carl Rove clones who wanted the most extreme candidate that they could find. In fairness to whoever actually selected Palin, they now have a person who makes W Bush look like a Unitarian intellectual who is a very frail heartbeat away from the Presidency. (If McC wins!)

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TR in VA:

Bruyus continues to post crap from Daily Kos which has already be proven wrong

she was never a member of the AI party.
It has been proven-- she voter reg card has been presented

There is NO proof or any evidence she wanted to ban any books. That story has been proven false.

after Obama the magic negro graduated and returned back to Chicago he never made partner.

Obama never had a single piece of Legal work published.

Obama: Sworn in as the fifth-ever African-American U.S. senator....... so what?

Worked with Republican Senator Lugar to author and implement a program to locate and dismantle stray Russian WMD's...... so work ?
that is NOT an accomplishment

Designated by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid as the party's point man on ethics.
.....so what? being desigmated is not an accomplishment

Worked with Russ Feingold to pass a major ethics/lobbying reform bill...... Obama didnt get that done either

called for increased fuel efficiency standards (3 percent every year for 15 years)..... so what? I called for peace through the world

Assignments on the Senate Committees for Foreign Relations, Veterans' Affairs, and Homeland Security.
Yawn.... Golly assignments

Chairman of the Senate's subcommittee on European Affairs.
Yawn...

As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia and Africa...... so does 50% of congress

Waged a tremendous battle to become the Democratic presidential nominee.
.....Running for POTUS makes you qualified?


Currently manages 2,500 campaign employees and a budget of $40-$50 million/month.
... so does my neighbor

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jamesia:

I'm fairly moderate, and even if I weren't, I'm fairly objective. No one can claim with a straight face that McCain would have picked Palin if he'd known everything that's coming out about her. It was a big tactical mistake.

No one is scared of Palin. Obama certainly is not. He just fought off arguably the most tough, tenacious female politician in all of US history.

McCain fumbled, that's all there is too it. The only possible comeback is to incite liberals to the extent of making themselves look bad while making naughty statements about Palin. And honestly, that might work.

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Evolve:

As a Lib I love the Palin pick. I would prefer that those of our party take the high ground, there's so many real issues surrounds this pick that McCann won't be able to get back on point till the debates. Then on top of that troopergate scheduled to hit on Oct. 30th, 5 days before the election. This is gonna take the McCann campaign lots of needed $$ to combat this.

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NeverMetAnHonestLib:

And Biden, who never had an original idea, (certainly nothing in writing according to his professors)is going to bring "gravy toss" to the Obama ticket. Palin and her authenticity will be loved by the real folks... you'll see.

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Stillow:

Liberals taking the high ground? The only time your side takes the high ground is to look down on everyone. Your side can't stand it that she is the pick. Why else woudl Kos an the other lefty sites be creating rumor after rumor? Libs don't like success stroies that weren't inspired from a g'ment program. Remember, people can't amke it without the help of the g'ment.
The high ground.......it must be comedy hour again on pollster............

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thoughtful:

I am pretty upset with what I am reading.

Not because Obama has had a reasonable bounce, but because there is an insane focus not on McCain and the Bush/Cheny policies he is offering alongside Bush/Cheney/Rove campaign style but on his very strange VP pick.

Stillow is absolutely right. 3 good days at the Convention and McCain leads in the tracking polls this time next week.

I remember early last week when McCain got to 46% and a lead on Ras polling and all you Liberal folk were spamming off like headless chickens.

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Evolve:

@Stillow:

Look at who's attacking who .... point made

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Stillow:

@Evolve

Yes point made...............comedy hour!

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thoughtful:

The polling does look good for Obama as the Dem base is back, McCain has picked a running mate that makes him look even older than his 72 and 25% of Americans just will not buy into a President of that age unless the person is exceptional which McCain is not.


So you have a united Democratic Party in a fight with an avowed right wing fundamentalist ticket offering us 4 more years of Bush/Cheney. Comparing Sarah Palin and Dick Cheney is about right. Let MSM and the Nat EnQ, run the scandals the DEms should just stick to politics. Point out the failed policies.

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Stillow:

@thoughtful

Everybody agrees McCain is the underdog. This cycle favors Dems. Bush is a republican, its to bad for my side he governs like a nut. There's a big downside for the GOP...remember Carter? A horrible president....he cost the Dems 12 straight years....probably more if Perrot didn't split the GOP vote in 1992. So Bush's party afiliation does indeed hurt the GOP....I view it as a chance for conservatives to take back the party. I am hoping the country doesn't do to the party what they did to the Dems after Carter. The country couldn't afford Bush's spending...there's no way it can afford Obama's spending....

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NeverMetAnHonestLib:

The Obama ticket is the most far left liberal pairing in the history of American politics. That right wing thing just doesn't cut it anymore Hillary.

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sherman:

Stillow:

You can't possibly be complaining about liberals attacking Republicans after 8 years of Karl Rove and friends telling us we are traitors to our own country for opposing Iraq. Come on! Some perspective, please?

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Publius:

Once they start debating the issues McCain will find it difficult to defend his positions to the general public. Most people agree with the Democratic positions and all Obama has to do is show that he is acceptable on foreign policy and he wins. Remember that once you set the bar low, anyone can walk over it. Palin just needs to show that she's not a righty wacko, and I think she'll succeed in that. I also think that Obama is well-versed on foreign policy issues and he'll match McCain in the debates, showing that he's not as bad as he's being portrayed. Also, Obama's youth and energy will contrast profoundly with McCain. TV favors the young.

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OGLiberal:

@Thoughtful:

"Stillow is absolutely right. 3 good days at the Convention and McCain leads in the tracking polls this time next week."

The conventions - Dem and GOP alike - are mostly about bringing the party and the base together. That's what happened with the Dem convention - 3 days of kumbaya and unity and positive and powerful speeches from both Clintons, Biden, Kerry, and Obama, brought the party together. It brought Clinton supporters - most of them - firmly into Obama's corner. It may have also cemented the choice of a few Dem leaning independents, but it was mostly about the base, the party. Since there are more Dems among the voting populace this year - probably to the tune of 8-10% - Obama now has a nice 6-8pt lead in the polls.

The Palin pick rallied the base around McCain more than any GOP convention would or will. Heck, he was already getting more of his base than Obama. Since the Palin pick, he's getting even more of that base, likely over 90%, which probably represents a high water mark. (moderate to liberal GOPers who might be thinking about voting for Obama or staying home are more likely to be scared away by the Palin pick) Yet 3+ days after the Palin pick and Obama's lead has actually increased since the 2 days immediately following the conclusion of the Dem convention. I don't see three convention days really moving those numbers. I could be wrong but I'll bet Obama will still have about a 6pt lead coming out of the GOP convention.

It then comes down to the debates. That's when the undecideds will really tune in, because it's when they get a chance to see both candidates on the stage, together, in a neutral setting, answering questions about national issues/concerns instead of speechifying in front of the party. If McCain goes into the debates down 6% in the polls, he's in a tough spot. He can change that by blowing Obama away, but I don't see that happening...I just don't see him having a Reagan v. Carter moment.

It's still close, and this thing is far from over. But, again, I think the Palin pick was McCain's best shot at a pre-debate bounce, and three days later, it hasn't tightened Obama's lead.

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thoughtful:

OGLiberal

I have already forecast a 2% Convention Dip for the Republicans. Terminal thereafter, just the worst negative campaign in history to follow.

The numbers in the trackers today are bang on my forecasts last week when you Libs were panicking!

Indeed I think we may find the trackers tomorrow still over 50% for Obama!

The interesting thing are in the battleground states.

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brambster:

@thoughtful

It's really over. Palin was the worst VP pick since Thomas Eagleton. It still took 18 days for Eagleton to be abandoned. I don't know if McCain can afford to do that. Turns out that Palin was an offering to the evangelical base of his party instead of a pro-life candidate that would have actually helped (especially Ridge).

This Palin stuff isn't going to end. When Obama picked Biden and all of the Hillary holdouts finally saw the reality that should have been obvious, there was a backlash, but that backlash pales in comparison to the negative interest in Palin that has been seen. Hillary helped immensely in sewing that all up, but McCain has no good options right now, just the lesser of two evils.

Palin isn't just inexperienced, she holds what most would consider to be odd views about government and the way that people should live their lives. She was a former Pentecostal that now attends a nondenominational Christian church. Her past political history has included supporting Buchanan and an Alaska separatist movement. I'll skip over all of the social issues since those are widely known. I don't think the dead bloody Moose pictures help either, nor do pictures of her daughter's boyfriend posing with guns. This isn't a picture of the average American family. Alaska just isn't normal.

Very few people would be comfortable with Palin running the government, and this is now the biggest issue of the election like it or not. Pat Buchanan would have been a more mainstream pick than Palin.

McCain won't recover from this one. There's just not enough time. It really shows his lack of judgment and it looks so very similar to the way that Bush has run things, if not even more so less thought out.

And since this is Pollster...the polls are confirming all of this very clearly.

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Tybo:

the obamaites seem flumoxed..

why on earth would America want someont with governoring experience when they can have a guy (key word) with no experience?

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mrut:

I don't think there will be any possibilities for McCain to "blow Obama out of the water" from here on out. The danger for the Obama campaign is that Biden seems too tough on Palin in the VP debates. The bar is being set extremely low for her (as for G. W. Bush before his debates) and she will look OK if she just survives. Biden will have to be very skillful in debating her.

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Stillow:

The dems have a huge advantage this year, no doubt about it. And as much as they are tryignto trash Palin...and as one sides as the news converage is in favor of Obama....this race will tighten again next week after the Palin McCain speeches. This race will be very very close...and people like thoughtful who think it won't are just dreaming....this thing can still go either way, but Palin and McCain needs great speeches this week. I thinkthey will perform. The dems have a saying attached to them "snatching defeat fro mthe jaws of victory". The slamming of a good person in Palin will backfire....and I don't think they get it...at least not yet.

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thoughtful:

Brambster

I think you pooh'd pooh'd me after the Biden pick when I said I thought McCain'd pick a woman.


This is a post Convention bounce, now just above average, it is bang on line with where I forecast it would be.

I think you are closing the book on Palin too early, and very unwisely. never under estimate. The Dems have to continiue to tar and not lose sight of Bush/Cheney/McCain/Palin. Samo Samo.

I wrote a very long blog on this whole McCain thing about 12 hours ago.

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Stillow:

@mrut:

That is the exact type of liberal arogance that may cost you this election. Palin will not only survive, but do very very well in a debate. Your elitist attitude and arogance might cost you guys big. Oh the poor girl can't stick p for herself....man are you guys in for a surprise.

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Obama Maniac:

I do not believe McCain will get much of a bounce from his convention. The convention is sloppy and disorganized and is being overwhelmed by distractions.

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The_Freeman:

I've learned to never underestimate the desire of the repuglican party's desire to simply win an election. You have got to hand it to those people, there is NOTHING they will not do in order to win. However, what has been proven time and again is just how terrible the GOP is at governing.

Sure, they can hand out our tax dollars to their friends, sponsors and favored corporations. The GOP are aces at allowing their churches to encroach on areas of our laws long held as forbidden from religious persecution, thus making way for a state much like a fundamentalist Islamic country looks like, except using Judeo-Christian laws.

Yes, I have learned to never underestimate a repuglican's absolute hatred for a free America for all Americans. To the GOP, America is only for the rich, the white, the Christian, the heterosexual, the married (twice, three times, no matter), the gun carrier, the pro-death penalty, pro-life, anti-sex, pro-booze, pro-war people. The rest of us are here to buy their products, shut our mouths and watch our civil rights erode.

Thank God I am Democrat!!!

____________________

Obama Maniac:

lol at delusional Stillow!

DELUSIONAL!!!!!!

The media is siding with Obama, are you kidding me??? Oh yes, it's Obama's fault that McCain didn't bother to vet a candidate that he only met once. The media is doing McCain's job that HE should have done: vetting Palin.

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zotz:

I saw Cambell Brown try to nail a squirming Tucker Bounds on the issue of Palin's "experience" commanding the Alaska National Guard. She couldn't get a straight answer but it made McCain so angry he cancelled an interview with Larry King!
Hilarious!

NeverMetAnHonestLib-
I don't like Libertarians either but you really should concider voting for Barr.

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mrut:

@Stillow

Actually, I'm not a liberal (but I am arrogant). I'm not saying anything for or against Palin's qualities as a debater; I'm just saying the dynamics of the race lower the bar for her in the debate.

You will notice that I said the same thing about the non-woman, George Bush.

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thoughtful:

Stillow

The classic Libs here haven't been following my positions as I think they are campaign people.

On my current model Obama is 14 points ahead of McCain 53% 39% 8% others/undecided!That's up 9 since the Biden pick/Convention/Palin

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Stillow:

@thoughtful

I know you think Obama is way ahead....I don't see it...Palin has been killed for four days now and will address them tomorrow night. She will get her chance to respond. If she comes out as a tough mom and protects her kids and tells the media to knock it off, her approvalrating will skyrocket. The media and the left made one of the biggest mistakes in politics, bashing a candidates kids. Huge tactical error... The backfire will begin this week and the race tighten next week to a very narrow margin....but, time will tell.

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Mike In Maryland:

jamesia said...
"I'm fairly moderate, and even if I weren't, I'm fairly objective. No one can claim with a straight face that McCain would have picked Palin if he'd known everything that's coming out about her. It was a big tactical mistake."

And here is an indication why he chose Palin without knowing enough about her:

"A GOP source with close ties to the campaign said that McCain aides 'vetted her through Google and clipping services.' "

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-na-palin2-2008sep02,0,3666723.story

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thoughtful:

Stillow

I agree with you, her best card is the mommy card. But she still has to be vice presidential!

The Dems best card is to clone her as Dick Cheney. Hit her on her conservative beliefs all the things that appeal to you.

This election is there for the Dems to lose, but Palin turned out to be a real right field pick. McCain has lost his mind, in my opinion.

Schmitt & Davis are running the show. He's a mere stand up guy,

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Mike_in_CA:

there is this little thing called "projection". Reading through these comments, I notice that alot of the traditional McCain supporters have thrown out phrases like "The Obamaites are scared of Palin", or "the liberals are bashing Palin for no reason", or "liberals are scared of Palin" etc.

The irony of course, is very very thick. Everyone in their right mind knows that this whole thing has descended into "joke" territory. We can argue points all day long, about who's policies are right, etc., but after reading the rants up and down this post, it's just not worth it.

Palin is a joke. Conservatives realize it, so they are projecting their terror onto Liberals. You see, we scary "liberals" are actually quite happy watching the Republican party splinter like this. IT'S ABOUT TIME. The Palin pick demonstrates that the real lever-pullers of the Republican party are the nut-job, right wind fundies. The Republican party has finally been exposed for what it really is: a wing of the extremist views of the fundamental Christian wing. Poor John McCain, he isn't really a part of that wing, but he thought he had to embrace it to win.

I'm sorry guys, (i.e. Stillow, et al), you can see the writing on the wall. You see the polls. You hear the media reports about Obama's ground game. You will fight, tooth and nail, to defend the oligarchy of the Republican rule, but you know, as we all do, that your time is coming to an end as you drown in the abyss of failed policies and leadership.

By next week John McCain will have sunk even further in the polls. And it's not because the crazy left-wing librul hippies attacked his poor female running mate. No, its because the public at large will finally realize what a blithering joke the current Republican party is.

Republicans, you have many long years to soul search. But won't it be a fantastically happy day when I hear the screams from right wingers on November 5. I'm already dreaming about it.

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Stillow:

@thoughtful

I read a little about what Thompson is supposed to say tonight....the defense of Palin and her "family" will start tonight. I'm tellin ya, bashing Palin's kids was the wrost possible thing the left and media could ahve done. The mommy card as you put it, will connect her with the folks....as most people would defend there kids tothe ends of the Earth. She will come off strong and loyal if she comes out swining and tells everyone to leave her kids alone. The dems left really openeed a door they should not have opened.

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kerrchdavis:

@Mike in CA: Hear Hear!

I think we've all already established that stillow is not only delusional but a complete...what was the term? "Big Blowhard Doofus" Yeah, it really is the liberals that attack personally.

And I don't blame anyone for thinking that Palin would not do well in a debate, especially when her foreign relations experience stems from her state being in close proximity to Russia. And don't start accusing us of being elitist when your candidate can't remember how many homes he owns.

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Mike_in_CA:

By the way, Stillow, no liberal politicians "bashed her [Palin's] kids". That's just a flat-out lie. The Obama campaign has issued strict instructions to leave family out of it. The media has been exploring the story, that's different than Democratic politicians. Get your head out of the sand.

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Robi:

I agree with Mike in CA except for the fact that he will sink more in the polls next week.

There will be a convention bounce for McCain-Palin no matter what.

If they don't have a bounce within a week after the RNC, they are DONE.

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Mike_in_CA:

Robi,

I actually think McCain will sink a bit into the polls, because this Republican Convention is just drawing more attention to the fact that everyone hates Republicans. Bush is going to speak tonight. The 30% of people who still think he's doing a good job will really like his speech I bet :) The rest of us will realize that John McCain and George Bush and Sarah Palin, and the rest of the nutjobs are falling out of relevance. I can't imagine that the RNC actually HELPS Republicans. But maybe it will. Perhaps we should keep thebar low to avoid disappointment?

____________________

thoughtful:

Stillow I agree with you, the liberal supporters are on the whole pretty dumb. Palin needs to be attacked on issues and what she thinks and believes. Yes on her record as well.

To some extent you are running the Rove line that its the Democrats attacking her on the private life and her kids only.

Well that just is not true, the big attack is that she's Dick Cheney 2!! I know they don't look the same.

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Stillow:

@thoughtful

It doesn't need to come fro mthe campaign, just an afiliate of that side. Example when the left whined about the swift boats, it wasn't the Bush folks, it was an 527 group....but the gop took the blame. the liberals out there, and yes, even msnbc has been bashing her kids...namely bristol. creating pregnancy hoaxes, etc....those are personal attacks of a family nature. the people won't like it. people like mike in ca think no one is bashing the family, that sok with me, most people see the light, but even if its not a member of the campaign, these things stick to the campaign.

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brambster:

@thoughtful

If I pooh'd pooh'd you suggesting that McCain would then pick a woman, I did so because I thought that Palin's Troopergate scandal removed her from contention (and I didn't look deeper into other stuff since this seemed to be obvious).

The election of course is never over until it's over, but things couldn't be better than they are right now for Obama. Obama could fall on his face, but I don't think that McCain can catch him now without Obama being hurt by something.

Palin can't save the Republican ticket on her own. VP's don't count that much, and they have more potential of doing harm than good in general. So at best Palin might do no harm, but she won't prop up the ticket. The comparison between the two campaigns at this moment is stark, and that image is clearly being shown in the polls. This isn't being driven by issues now, it's being driven by the most basic of appearances. One being very organized, professional, charismatic and inspiring, and the other showing flaws similar to the Bush administration when it comes to not just judgment, but also process.

These differences are very easy for the general population to see. Easy messages, easy comparisons are easier to sell.

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marctx:

Woman bashing is not gonna work.

Teenage girl, kid, and baby bashing not gonna work.

Congratulations to Obama for getting "half" of the generic Democrat lead.

Liberals don't know how excited the republican and anti-Obama people are about Palin.

The 50% is statistical noise that will pass in two days.

Best line of the day goes to Huckabee. "Palin got more votes running for mayor than Biden did running in two presidential bids."

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thoughtful:

Stillow

Look apart from the fake pregnacy, what other falsehoods? I think they need to go after the National Enquirer and MSM..

____________________

Stillow:

@thoughtful

This mroning MSNBC says they are "looking into" reports members of her family may be Nazi sympothisers........
I really thought the media and hard left were hard on Hillary because they wanted Obama in there, but the attacks on Palin.....bring a whole new definition to smear campaign. At least finally the defense starts tonight....Palin gets to speak tomorrow....and we can get the other side of this.....

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mrut:

@Stillow

I agree with you that the Republicans (NOT Palin herself) will act indignant that Palin's daughter is the subject of discussion. I think most Americans will agree, sympathizing with this poor 17-year-old. Palin herself won't have to talk about it directly--she'll talk about the sanctity of life and the importance of family. Hers will be a warm, affirming speech, not a defensive one.

The problem for the McCain campaign arises from not vetting Palin, which leads to revelations every day (to which they must respond) about this unknown's past and current positions and policy. Just now I'm seeing that Todd Palin actually IS registered as a member of the Alaska Independence Party. This is another headache, just as the campaign had posted Sarah Palin's registration. These little dribs and drabs of information--now being unearthed by the army of reporters newly arrived in Alaska--are a huge distraction for the campaign.

Let's not forget that the Palin family escapades will never stop fascinating readers of the National Enquirer, which, even as we speak, has stringers handing out 100-dollar bills to anyone in Alaska who will talk, and the Enquirer doesn't care about the credibility of sources, just the sensationalism of the story. Readers of the Enquirer probably don't fall into your definition of elitists, though we all see the magazine in the checkout line. These stories appeal to our most prurient interests, not to a particular political preference, which explains why the Palins are the gift that will keep on giving for the tabloids.

I don't see a graceful way out for McCain, but if Palin limps along through the convention to the debates, she might win by exceeding expectations. It is in the Democrats' interest to keep hammering away at McCain and his judgment, not her.

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kerrchdavis:

ahh, I was wondering when marctx was going to show up. You're right...conservatives are SOO excited about Palin that Obama's numbers keep climbing. You are a genius, Marc. And you're absolutely right...woman bashing is NOT going to work. Therefore, it really is unfortunate that McCain had to audacity to insult and BASH women voters by picking a woman with almost no experience and thinking women would vote for her solely based on gender. And if I was Huckabee, I wouldn't talk too much about failed Presidential Bids.

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thoughtful:

Brambster

The only poll that matters is on election day.You guys got to get the ground game really working, the 18-29s motivated and no complancency!

@Marctx

I have Obama running level with Rick Generic.

It's got so bad that Rassmusson has decided to tweak his model a little bit more towards the Repubs about 1.7%, I picked that up on 538.

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zotz:

Stillow- YOUR SIDE STARTED IT
Do the Reps have any problem about criticising Michele on how her kids are being raised? Hell NO! You guys think she is fair game, her kids are fair game. You are being hypocritical.

On the subject of kid bashing-
Here's McCain: "Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno.”
Your bud Rush compared Chelsea to a cocker spanial. How do you think that stuff sounds to a teenage girl? Do you care? Hell No.

Hey- they were just kiddin' around. Right?

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political_junki:

PPP Polling of North Carolina, Tied :)
Obama 43 McSame 43

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political_junki:
____________________

kerrchdavis:

wow, you guys are gonna lose NC too?

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thoughtful:

Stillow

MSnbc, Huff, Kos there are some nuts and 5th Columnists there that's all i can say.

McCain brought this on himself. A lot of these reports have the whiff of Rove "counter spin".

It is in danger of getting completely out of control as MSM are driving this. KOS and Huffington are deconsrtuted liberal facists if you know what I mean. Couldn't make it on the right so trying to make it on the left.

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Stillow:

@zotz

who is slamming Obama's kids? Give me one source. Michelle made herself game when she went out o nthe campaign trail and made dopy comments about never being proud of her country before. If Cindy made a dopy comment liek that, i promise you it would have been huge news. Who is slamming Obama's kids....

"your side started it"....geeez, come on....

____________________

kerrchdavis:

"KOS and Huffington are deconsrtuted liberal facists if you know what I mean. Couldn't make it on the right so trying to make it on the left."

This is a ridiculous generalization. You should emulate your namesake a little better and think before you post.

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thoughtful:

political_junki

The poll is too Democrat loaded the rest of the crosstabs are cool. Its just the one district, it s in line with the NC polls of the week before last.

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player:

By looking at the results of these polls, Hillary Clinton supporters should be wearing T shirts that says 'b*tch slapped'. Obama certainly put them in their place in a hurry.

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thoughtful:

kerrchdavis

If I want to read left wing garbage those are the 2 sites that are "must go".

There is nothing worse than a right winger turncoat.

____________________

Carol Elkins:

I have just found this website, which I can't believe is for real.
It sounds like a total satire of her, esp. the part where she describes how McCain is teaching her about foreign relations.
AND also especially her daughter's post about the baby.
Is this real or is it fake?

Please let me know at caroler@earthlink.net

http://sarahpalin.typepad.com/my_weblog/

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kerrchdavis:

@stillow

who is slamming Palin's kids??? Palin made herself game when she accepted a potential VP position while being woefully unqualified and McCain made his campaign game by picking someone he did not bother to vet. If the Democrats VP was in the same situation, you can bet that conservatives would be swarming and calling "scandal!" Who is slamming Palin's kids...

"In an election of HUGE importance, McCain decides to spend all of his VP selection's first speech checking out her butt."

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kerrchdavis:

@thoughtful

Actually, there is something worse. It's called a right winger.

And don't over-generalize. It would be like me saying Pollster is full of right wing garbage because a select few nuts like yourself post your thoughts here. It would be an insult to everyone here that is NOT a moron.

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Robi:

"Michelle made herself game when she went out o nthe campaign trail and made dopy comments about never being proud of her country before"

You can't even get the quote right. She said "For the first time in my adult life, I'm really proud of my country" and it was in context of the primaries and not the country as a whole.

Even Laura Bush had the decency to distinguish that so shut up you Rovian hack.

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kerrchdavis:

lol, Robi, I love you!

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Stillow:

@Robi

I know the quote, notice I didn't use "".....Laura did what she was supposed to do...and I know Obama supporters will defend every action he does....no matter what it is...same goes with Michelle. The other side does the same thing...

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thoughtful:

kerrchdavis

Who are you calling Right Wing? Because I criticize a standard of blog which is supposedly progressive which is really reactionary you call me right wing?

Don't be so one dimensional! Get a better life!

____________________

kerrchdavis:

If you knew the quote and had half a brain, you would not have brought it up here since you would have realized that the quote was completely taken out of context.

____________________

Robi:

At stillow:

If Laura Bush, who is not running for anything and who cannot possibly hurt George more than he has already ****ed up his reputation and his party, says something in support of Michelle, I think we can take her word for it. There's nothing to lose or gain from speaking your mind.

I have plenty of posts from my 2 days of commenting on this site of conceding points. That's why I get pissed at people like you who find it their job to spin every situation they can.

Michelle Obama said something stupid? Yes. But that's what she gets for not running for president and being naive that Fox News and the RNC wouldn't try to take it out of context.

Now she is much better at wording her speeches. I am able to concede points and that's what makes a person more rational than a person who doesn't want to concede anything.

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Stillow:

Why don't you lefties attack her on issues?

I realize being mayor is nowhere near the accompishment of being a community organizer.

I realize being governor is just not on par with being in the US Senate for 4 years, 3 of which you were never there because you were running for president.

I realize more domestic oil drilling is lame, I can't imagine why increasing the supply would ever lower prices......

I realzie Alaska is such a small state, so representing it doesn't count as much as say Biden representing an equally small state.

I realize that believing we should have laws protecting babies is absurd...I mean we don't want to ask people to be responsible for their actions, that is unamerican.

I guess we can see why the only issue the left and the media can talk about is her daughter being pregnant.

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Robi:

To stillow:

I will give you a chance to rebut your own statement before I kick your ass with it.

5 minutes.

____________________

kerrchdavis:

You call Kos and HP "deconsrtucted liberal fascists" and you're calling ME one dimensional. I love how you can accuse people of being fascist but the second you think someone calls you a right winger. By the way, I also called you a moron. Or are you not refuting that one?

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Stillow:

@kerrchdavis

Context, right...I know I've heard it all before....Wright's God Damn AMerica was taken out of context too, I know.......I know...

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player:

I agree with the professionals that watch these campaigns. Obama's confidence has been shaken. His pick of Biden was way off base. I believe that he was going to select Edwards until the 'baby scandal' came out. He would have been better off with Richardson. His polls numbers should be back down to the 45% range by next week. McCain's percentage should rise up to even with Obama's numbers. However, there is an underlying current of discontent that these polls don't reflect.It still isn't clear which way it will go.

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Stillow:

@Robi

I'm laughing with you....really I am...no tat you, I promise!

____________________

kerrchdavis:

@thoughtless

You call Kos and HP "deconsrtucted liberal fascists" and you're calling ME one dimensional. I love how you can accuse people of being fascist but the second you think someone calls you a right winger. By the way, I also called you a moron. Or are you not refuting that one?

@stillow

Being a mayor of a town that is smaller than my high school? Nice.

Being a governor of one of the least populous states in the country for less than 2 years? Nice.

Domestic Oil Drilling that is only a stop-gap solution (kind of like sweeping dust under the carpet instead of actually cleaning)? nice.

Don't even try to compare Biden's qualifications with Palin's. One has VAST foreign policy experience...the other lives close to Russia.

Nobody is saying don't be responsible. Of course, there should never be a way out to victims of rape who become pregnant.

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Stillow:

@kerrchdavis

That's it? That was your answers....I can see again why the focus is o nthe daughter......!

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Brutus1_:

kerrchdavis -

laying the smackdown. someone just got pwned.

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Stillow:

Simple question for all you lefties who say her being mayor and governor do not count because the population is so little.

Can any onf you please give me the # of people who need to live in a town before being its mayor actually counts? I need a # so we can disqualify anyone who is mayor of a smaller #.

I also need the # of people who need to live in a state before being its governor actually counts.....

Can you all enlightened liberals give me the answer? Its a simple question.....just give me the # of people that would make those two positions count....

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kerrchdavis:

Yup, that's it. It really does not take very complex answers to refute your dumb comparisons. Trying to say that Obama's experience is similar to Palin's pretty much sums up how stupid you are.

____________________

player:

@Stillow:
Are these liberal lions that roared giving you fits today. They are agitated and feel threatened. Isn't it odd that the John Edwards illegitimate baby's story makes headlines and the all at once it is switch to Palin's daughters baby. Do you get the parallels? Obama got lucky that he didn't pick Edwards. That was a waiting trap.

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kerrchdavis:

We're scared to death. Obama's numbers going up and up has me soiling my shorts.

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kerrchdavis:

@Brutus

lol! pwned for sure!
He's too dumb to realize he looks like a fool :D

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Mike_in_CA:

hey 'player', you know what this:

"Obama's confidence has been shaken. His pick of Biden was way off base. I believe that he was going to select Edwards until the 'baby scandal' came out. He would have been better off with Richardson. His polls numbers should be back down to the 45% range by next week."

is called? P.R.O.J.E.C.T.I.O.N.

Obama's confidence is shaken? Are you living in last week? Both Clintons gave knockout speeches, Gallup reports a double digit increase in Clinton supporters now backing Obama. he gave a knockout speech viewed by more people than the Olympics Opening Ceremony. His poll numbers are rising. I think you meant to say "McCain's confidence is shaken". After all, if McCain were so confident, why would he change his VP pick at the last minute? hmm....

Biden was a horrible pick? I think you meant to say "Palin was a horrible pick." I'd say this is a widely accepted opinion at this point. Everyone seems to love Biden. Hes generally regarded as a pretty "safe" pick, one intended for effective GOVERNING (which is, after all, what the President does right?"

His poll numbers will tank? Says who? As I've said a million, gillion times, just cuz you say it, doesn't make it so. At least BACK Up your claim. You give no reason to support.

Like I said, all of us crazy "librul hippies" on this site better watch out --for the next two months, the attacks, name-calling, hyperbole is going to ratchet up, coinciding with the screams of terror of a party in its last throes of relevance nationally. Once and for all, I think it's obvious that the Republican party CAN NOT GOVERN EFFECTIVELY.

Who's looking forward to hearing from Mr. 30% tonight?? :)

____________________

Brutus1_:

McCain: "Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno.”

Your bud Rush compared Chelsea to a cocker spaniel. How do you think that stuff sounds to a teenage girl? Do you care? Hell No.

---------------------------------

Completely agree with the above post earlier in the thread. Hypocritical repubs sure can dish it out but they can never take it, can they? What pansies. Amazing how no one said during the Clinton years that "family is a private matter". Funny now, that we have a disgrace of a veep candidate, that suddenly family is off-limits.


Retardlicans are an effing joke. That's why the ENTIRE WORLD wants Obama. Look at the worldwide polls. From Germany to Ghana, from Australia to Antigua, from Estonia to Equador. It is a no contest around the globe, Obama wins 80-10, sometimes 90-5.

The joke is that we have a bunch of knuckle dragging, creationism believing, global warming denying, war mongering, ass-backwards, misogynistic, religious retards that have hijacked the republican party. It can no longer be called the conservative party. They don't represent conservatives, they represent the asinine and uneducated that think the Bible should be translated literally and written into the Constitution. Palin just is a red meat for this crowd. What a JOKE the right-wingers have become. So stupid, that they they don't even realize that the ENTIRE WORLD openly mocks them.


____________________

Stillow:

@player

I don't mind honest libs, but the ones on here are crazy. They discount Palin's service as mayor and governor, so I simply wanna know how many people do you need to represent before it counts...
No fits though today...just kinda messin with them. I am playing off of there fear's about Palin...and as you can see fro mthe replies....they have no clue.

____________________

thoughtful:

Kerrchdavis

You give progressives a bad name. Troll off!

OK Stillow

You want Palin to be attacked on her very thin executive record. I understand that. Waste of time as really irrelevant for Head Of State duties.

She might get called upon to take over as President in 5 months time.

Simply put she has never shown interest in seeking national office until last week.
Tell me that she has even thought about it let alone has much knowledge of the world outside of Alaska. The law, International Affairs, Supply side Economics; Moneterism, Global Warming, International Trade etc etc.

____________________

Brutus1_:

kerrchdavis-

They are too effing stupid to even realize they got pwned. Remember, they still believe in creationism - that humans rode around on dinosaurs, etc.

Don't waste too much time beating them down though, it is rather pointless. Akin to trying to teach calculus to a retarded chimp.

____________________

Stillow:

@thoughtful

None of the other libs seem to be able to answer the question. How many people need to live in your city and state before it counts as executive and head of state expereince? Look all the posts on here, slamming her expereince because the town is so small and Alska is so small....then give me the # of people who would make it count....is it a million? 10 million? How many? If the core of her lack of expereince is because they are so small, then the libs surely have a # at which point its acceptable?????

____________________

Brutus1_:

Maybe some repubs might get this if they actually bothered to READ my previous post-


You want to talk QUALIFICATIONS???

1980 - 1984

Obama: B.A. in political science with a specialization in international relations from Columbia University.

Palin: Wasilla High School, captain of the state-champion basketball team. Miss Wasilla, runner-up in the Miss Alaska pageant, also Miss Congeniality, although that is now disputed.

Him: Ivy League degree.
Her: Tiara.

1985 - 1990

Obama: moved to Chicago; became a community organizer as director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization on Chicago's far South Side. During his three years as the DCP's director, its staff grew from 1 to 13 and its annual budget grew from $70,000 to $400,000, with accomplishments including helping set up a job training program, a college preparatory tutoring program, and a tenants' rights organization.

Moved to Boston to attend Harvard Law School. Selected as an editor and then elected president of the Harvard Law Review, a full-time volunteer position functioning as editor-in-chief and supervising the law review's staff of 80 editors.

Palin: Bachelor of Science degree in communications-journalism, with a minor in political science from the University of Idaho. Brief stint as a sports reporter for local Anchorage television stations; left to join her husband in commercial fishing.

Him: Sterling IVY LEAGUE Legal Education.
Her: Sportscaster, degree from low tier school.


1991 - 1995

Obama: Graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard Law School; received contract and advance to write a book ("Dreams from my Father") as well as a fellowship at the University of Chicago Law School. Directed the Illinois Project Vote from April to October 1992, a voter registration drive with a staff of 10 and 700 volunteers that achieved its goal of registering 150,000 of 400,000 unregistered African Americans in the state, leading Crain's Chicago Business to name Obama to its 1993 list of "40 under Forty" powers to be. Appointed as a Lecturer in constitutional law at the University of Chicago. Joined Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland, a 12-attorney law firm specializing in civil rights litigation and neighborhood economic development. Active in several community organizations, usually as a board member.

Palin: member of the Alasaka Independence Party which advocates "Alaska First". Elected to Wasilla city council.

Him: Expert on our nation's fundamental legal principles - taught at top law school.

Her: Plotted to leave the Union; thinks Pledge of Allegiance was written by our founding fathers, doesn't know what a Vice President does.

1996 - 2000

Obama: Promoted to Senior Lecturer in Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago Law School. Elected to the Illinois Senate. Sponsored more than 800 bills. In 2000, lost a Democratic primary run for the U.S. House of Representatives to four-term incumbent Bobby Rush by a margin of two to one.

Palin: elected as mayor of Wasilla (population 5,470), defeating the incumbent by a total of 616 votes to 413. Town budget, $8 million (3 millionths of the Federal budget), approximately 100 employees. Reduced property taxes but increased sales taxes. Fired the Wasilla police chief, citing a failure to support her administration. (He then sued Palin on the grounds that he was fired because he supported the campaign of Palin's opponent, but his suit was dismissed when the judge ruled that Palin had the right under state law to fire city employees, even for political reasons.) Hired a DC lobbyist to bring $27 million in earmarks to the city. Wasilla had zero debt when she entered office but she left it with indebtedness of over $22 million, including $15 million-plus for construction of a hockey center which was built on a piece of property that the city didn’t even have clear title to, a matter that is still in litigation. Attempted to ban books from the city library.

Him: Sponsored 800 bills in one of the most populous states.

Her: Swayed 616 voters.


2001 - 2004

Obama: Reelected in 2002 and became chairman of the Illinois Senate's Health and Human Services Committee.

Publicly spoke out against the invasion of Iraq BEFORE the congressional authorization in 2002, and then again before the actual invasion in 2003.

Wrote and delivered the keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention.

November 2004: elected to the US Senate, receiving over 3.5 million votes, more than 70% of total.

Palin: elected president of the Alaska Conference of Mayors. Unsuccessful bid for lieutenant governor, coming in second in a five-way race in the Republican primary, receiving 19,000 votes. Appointed to the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, served as chairman from 2003 to 2004 and also served as Ethics Supervisor. Resigned in protest over the "lack of ethics" of fellow Republican members. Exposed the state Republican Party's chairman, Randy Ruedrich, for doing party work on public time and working closely with a company he was supposed to be regulating. Director of Ted Stevens' 527 group.

Him: Demonstrated the wisdom to oppose the Iraq folly before it even began.

Her: Hasn't "really thought much about Iraq" - despite the fact that 17 Alaskans have died there

2005 to present

Obama: Sworn in as the fifth-ever African-American U.S. senator. Worked with Republican Senator Lugar to author and implement a program to locate and dismantle stray Russian WMD's. Designated by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid as the party's point man on ethics. Worked with Russ Feingold to pass a major ethics/lobbying reform bill. Cosponsored, with John McCain, the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act. Called for increased fuel efficiency standards (3 percent every year for 15 years). Assignments on the Senate Committees for Foreign Relations, Veterans' Affairs, and Homeland Security. Chairman of the Senate's subcommittee on European Affairs. As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia and Africa. Waged a tremendous battle to become the Democratic presidential nominee. Currently manages 2,500 campaign employees and a budget of $40-$50 million/month.

Palin: 2005: Board member, Valley Hospital Association, which runs the Mat-Su Regional Medical Center in Wasilla.

Became youngest and first female Governor of Alaska, taking office in December, 2006. Received 114,600 votes. The population of Alaska is 683,478 and more than 50% of the state budget comes from oil revenues, not taxes as in other states. Gross State Product: $44 billion (including the oil revenue). Ranking 45 of 50.
Auctioned off the Governor's jet on eBay. Took on fellow-Republican Senator Ted Stevens to come clean about the federal investigation into his financial dealings. Promoted oil and natural gas resource development in Alaska. Helped pass a tax increase on oil company profits. Formed a sub-cabinet group of advisers to address climate change but does not accept that it is man-made. Objected to listing polar bears as an endangered species because it might hurt oil and gas development in the bears' habitat. Was for the bridge to nowhere before she was against it. However, Alaska kept the federal money. Denied her daughter was pregnant before she confirmed it. Supported abstinence-only education. Currently under a bipartisan investigation for abuse of power for dismissing Alaska's Public Safety Commissioner. Commander-in-Chief of the Alaska National Guard, but has played no role in national defense activities, even when they involve the Alaska National Guard. (The entire operation is under federal control, and the governor is not briefed on situations.)

Obtained her first passport in 2007 to perform visits to the Alaska National Guard in Kuwait and Germany. (Foreign experience so limited that a stopover in Ireland listed on her resume.)

Him: Impressive figure on the national stage who knows how Congress works and is engaged with foreign policy issues.

Her: small state governor for 21 months; "next to Russia", but that is just 1 of the 190 countries in the world she has never been to.


Conclusion: the word "executive" is not some kind of magic force multiplier when placed in front of the word "experience". Especially when that "executive experience" is of less than 700,000 people, the approximate size of Fort Worth, Texas.

By the republicans' ridiculous argument, any idiot that has been mayor of a semi-large city in America (for 18 months) has the "executive experience" to run the country. No wonder they thought GW Bush would be a wonderful president.

Hey, wait a minute, McCain has ZERO years of "executive experience", shouldn't he be at the bottom of the ticket??????

____________________

Robi:

The problem with people like Stillow is one of two things: either they fully believe that the argument as it stands is fact and the dems just want to see the world burn or that Stillow and others are not willing to talk about the other side of the issue because they know that they would sound absurd when one has both sides of the argument. Let's take stillow's argument down piece by piece.

While Palin was mayor, Obama was a community organizer. Yes this is true. But what is not explained is that Palin's experience as a mayor is laughable when considering the size of the town she was in charge of. That doesn't mean Obama's experience is any better. But to me, both shouldn't use this as experience for the president. Obama has only used his community organizing experience for his argument that he understands the issues usual people go.

Palin has been governor for 20 months of Alaska and already has gone back and forth on the bridge to nowhere, is involved in an investigation and has tried to artificically revive a dairy industry which eventually led to its collapse anyway and left debts to be payed off. McCain has been less present this year in the senate than Obama and Obama was part of the state senate before that and is part of the foreign relations committee of congress which deals with FOREIGN POLICY issues. But experience is not the argument I use in this situation, it is the fact that Obama has proved that his inexperience is not a factor in the primaries and Palin ha yet to do so. It is important to note she didn't even know what the VP did a month ago and no third party websites has her stance on foreign policy issues because she doesn't have a stance yet which makes sense because being a governor of a state doesn't require one to need foreign policy experience because there IS NO FOREIGN POLICY RELATIONS BETWEEN ALASKA OR ANY STATE AND RUSSIA OR ANY COUNTRY.

Oil drilling would not put a dent in the supply/demand aspect because we simply don't have enough here and even if we did, it would take at least 10 years to be able to actually start getting that oil into the economy. In those 10 years, we could stop relying on oil for at least cars with fully electric or hydrogen fuel cell cars.

Biden is far more qualified because he is chairman of the foreign relations committee and is a constitutional law professor at (I think) georgetown. Size doesn't matter when you're talking about a senator. Biden has dealt with in his committee dealing with foreign policy recommendations and can appoint a supreme court justice because he is very well versed in constitutional law. Can you say the same thing about Sarah Palin and her Bachelors in Journalism?

This one is just stupid. In the first trimester, a fetus is not alive because it doesn't even have a heartbeat. Second trimester is a little more iffy because one must make sure it's not alive and having a functional brain. Sarah Palin doesn't even like the idea of condoms and wants abstinence only education which (now she knows firsthand) does nothing to prevent un-wanted pregnancies or STDs. Teens seem to do it anyway so we should educate them on how not to get STDs or pregnant and risk their future (assuming they want to go to a good college). Anyone who thinks first trimester fetuses are alive need to get a little more education on the subject because if it doesn't have a heartbeat or a developed (baby standards) brain, it's not alive. Stop lying about the truth.

And last but not least, free speech has its prices. The Obama campaign has been very good to stay away from the issue and has not had its advisers comment on the issue and rightfully so. A supporter of Obama and an official adviser to the campaign are completely different people and not making the distinction is not being honest.

Now, as I said in the beginning, either you know the other side and choose not to mention it and give a flawed argument, or you're simply not aware and then I don't blame you and suggest you get a little more educated on the issues before you make ignorant statements.

But if you are in the former category, you are everything that's wrong with democracy and the electoral process. You're overzealous addiction to falsely portray the other side hurts this country because people need to know both sides and make up their own minds and nobody should distort the positions of either campaign. It is people like you that make me sick and it is people like you that would rather win a campaign, than have the people make informed decisions on the issues.

I hold myself to this standard and, if you think I have portrayed the McCain campaign improperly on their issues, then let me know and be specific. But I don't condone any side that distorts or makes false statements and my previous posts have shown that conviction.

I think everybody deserves a better standard for debates and to deny that is simply sad and pathetic.

____________________

thoughtful:

Stillow

Look its executive experience and it counts!! Its more than Obama, McCain and Biden put together!

It counts but its not qualification for President of the United States or Vice President.

Look, Bill Clinton became President at the same age but he had 10 years as a Gov, a Rhodes Scholar, well travelled etc.

Palin knows very little outside Alaska, you know you need to have an education in matters dealing with Foreign Leaders, etc etc.

You really think she's "1st String"?

____________________

mrut:

@Brutus1

Please stop clogging up the site by pasting in that spammy resume comparison. Use your own words and be brief. You will be more effective that way. No one wants to read that pre-fab blather.

____________________

Stillow:

@Robi

See, you said her expereince as mayor is laughable because of the size of the town....for the love of God, tell me how many people need to live in that town before it counts? Give me the dang #? You guys keep telling me it doesn't count because it sso small, then how many people would make it count? its an extremely simple qeustion!! You can bluster about with liberal talking points all you want to make yourself feel better....but if your sayign its laughable, then what # of people would make it not laughable? Can you give me a #, or do you just blabber on making yourself feel better?

____________________

brambster:

@Brutus1_

Please take your purely partisan and extreme BS and put it somewhere else. Your loony statements only hurt your cause, and as a liberal myself, I do not appreciate it at all, and I'm quite sure that absolutely no one on this site does.

You are the only person that has ever been banned from this site, and has been multiple times and with good cause.

Please leave. PLEASE!

____________________

player:

@Brutus_1:
Heres a calculus problem for you. Give me the derivative of this polynomial. (6x^3/X^3).Come on show us your math skills. Show all of these chimps what you know.

@Stillow:
They have no clue how government functions. Some of them are just loud mouths who hide behind suggestive names. They think Obama's community organizers work in the bad land neighborhoods of South Chicago is qualification to be king of the world.

However, I will give it to Barack. He is a clever dude. I have watched him get out of a couple of traps. Hes like a cat with nine lives. Although he seems to have used up most of them.

____________________

thoughtful:

@Robi

Stillow you are right!

You know whether you run 50 or 500 or 5000 or 500,000 the duties are the same. I don't believe that being a Mayor of a small town and 16 months as Gov of Alaska with not much of a worldly resume behind her are qualifications for VP.

The Voters will decide that in November.

____________________

zotz:

"Executive experience" is a total red herring of an argument. You are basically talking about management skills. Being president is not like running a corporation.

To be president you need leadership ability, judgement, and vision for where you need to take the nation. Then you look at the candidate to see if their experience, education, and temperament are appropriate to accomplish the task.

Obama is a cautious leader unlikely to make impulsive or dangerous decisions. We saw his choice of Biden as an example of that characteristic. McCain, on the other hand, was a cheerleader for the decision to invade Iraq. He has a KOWABUNGA! style to making decisions. The fact that he only met Palin once and had one phone conversation with her before choosing her to be VP shows this reckless KOWABUNGA! style.

After having one reckless president for the past 8 years do we really need 4 more years of the same? I say NO.

____________________

Brutus1_:

Okay, some troll asked for a "number" that would make it count. Oh, I don't know, maybe four terms as governor of Alaska? Or at least one term as governor of California? More importantly, the accomplishments (in or out of office) is what truly matter.

The point is that not only does she have no real experience, she looks to be wholly unimpressive altogether. A dimwit, a dull tool, very similar to GW Bush, and the quotes from her at church serve to illustrate this point. If you think you (and your army) are doing God's bidding, then you are a delusional christianist that needs serious mental help - just like bush.

If Palin had been governor of Texas for a few years and turned around their economy and education system and balanced a budget for a few terms, and showed good judgment (like not abusing her power), then she wouldn't be getting attacked like she has been in the news.

But c'mon, 18 months as governor of a state of 700K? And before that, mayor of a town of 5K?? Get real. In addition, numerous scandals during that period? Yikes, that is a recipe for disaster.

On top of which, her education level is ridiculous. It could be argued that an Ivy League education didn't help Bush, but it is quite obvious Bush was getting "affirmative action for the rich and dumb". You try getting into Harvard's MBA program with a "C" average. They would laugh in your face. Obama actually accomplished quite a few things while in college, taking advantage of the opportunity, working hard and showing his intellect.

That is what I want from a president - someone obviously smarter than me who takes advantage of his opportunities and is also selfless to boot. Obama's good judgment has been apparent throughout his life. Therefore, I don't really care that he has a relative lack of experience on the national level - he has what it takes to be president. The same can not be said for Palin or McCain.


____________________

kerrchdavis:

@Robi

really well written analysis Robi. Hey, we can't convince them all but I'm glad to have people like you on our side.

____________________

thoughtful:

Brutus1_ is this Voice reincarnated?

Brambster thank you for intervening your fellow Libs have been really personally offensive today!

Crazy with the polls the way they are and a potential gift of a VP nominee

____________________

Stillow:

@thoughtful

you dont know anything about her views on foreign policy. She hasn't even given her speech yet, but you already dismiss her as an idiot on foreign policy. Most of Obama supporters here trash her domestic expereince because she represented to few # of people. Let her talk, listen to her views on policies tomorrow night and then we can debate her opinions on various matters....but your making an argument before even listening to her....

____________________

Robi:

To stillow:

Anything else? Or are you going to just take one argument?

The economy of the United States is far more complex than that of Alaska. Industry focus is different and I could go on but Alaska is not as complex as the US because the US must deal with various industries and economies within its borders and form a policy that doesn't just help Alaska.

Obama has economic advisers that many economists applaud and that have come up with brilliant economic plans.

Palin has not done the same.

The reason people talk about it being too small is that the complexities of the US compared to that of A small state or town is because the US is a whole other economic issue and is far more complex i.e. international trade, the WTO, diplomatic trade agreements and sanctions etc.

____________________

mrut:

@Stillow:

Being the mayor of a town of 7,000 is executive experience. I would put it on my resume, certainly.

From what I have read, Palin's innovation as mayor lay in her efforts to increase the amount of revenue for investment in the town. This revenue came from various sources, including an increase in sales taxes, an increase in the amount of money obtained from the state of Alaska, and a dramatic increase in the amount of money obtained from the federal government, with the help of Senator Ted Stevens. In other words, it looks like Palin brought home the bacon for her town. I would put this on my resume, too. These are valid accomplishments.

The problem is, as I see it, Palin can't trumpet these specific accomplishments because she was picked by McCain to act as an anti-tax, anti-earmark reformer. This is why we are getting into this ridiculous pissing contest about "executive experience." I actually think she was a very good mayor. That does not mean that I think she is qualified to be president, and yes--that must be the standard. The VP first and foremost must be qualified to step in for the president.

____________________

Stillow:

@Robi:


One argument at a time, based on your posts and that of your fellow libs, you can't really focus on more than one at a time.....you said it was laughable because it was to small....why is that all of you who are using that argument simply cannot tellme the amount of people you owuld need to represent in order for it to count as expereince? I can't think of a more simple question...if your side says its laughable, then defend it and tell me how big a city would not be laughable.
When it comes down to it, being President is the most unique job i nthe world, its impossible to gget the prfect expereince for it....there are 50 governors...only one president. Its a unique position....so no one is ever truly "qualified" to hold that office.
Give me a #, your the one who called it laughable.....i really want to know what size city justified expereince and what size state doe sthe same? Please defend your own statement by giving me the #.

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Brutus1_:

stillknowsnothing -

Look up her statements on "eye-raq".

The tool doesn't even know how to pronounce Iraq, Iran, or nuclear. What a joke.

A dim bulb to be sure.....

____________________

Paul:

Back to the actual poll we are submitting posts for, it is interesting as pointed out above that Nader and Barr are not going to be on the ballot in all states ... do we know for the states which could possibly be in play, whether Nader and Barr will be on the ballot?

As to the Obama advantage, I would agree with the poster above that the number is a result of the DEM convention and the negatives over Palin. We need to wait until a full week goes by to see where we stand.

____________________

Brutus1_:

Can't you read, stillknowsnothing???

I already addressed that pathetic argument.

____________________

thoughtful:

@Stillow

You are a conservative, so is Palin. So that works for you!

Foreign Affairs: Palin has never expressed a view at any time whilst she has been in public life. So you're guessing at what she is going to say.

Some of us have had well educated views borne of experience and service in Executive Capacity for many years! So you know they give her job title - thats it.

If something happens to McCain? Help!

____________________

Mike_in_CA:

its official, nobody can get a word in edgewise on here.

It's now a pissing match between Stillow, Brutus, thoughtful, player, Robi and kerrch.

What a shame.

____________________

Stillow:

@thoughtful

Again you do not know her views....why don't you listen to her speech and let her express her views to you....then if you disgree with them, at least you have a valid argument to use.
You ar emaking assumptions about her beeliefs....because you haven't persued foreign policy doesn't mean you lack judgement in it. She seems to be everything Obama wanted to bring to the white house....change, a new look, fresh ideas, not a washington insider, etc, etc....you've already made up your mind on her foreign policy even though you've probably never heard her speak on it before.
That is why your argument is weak....

____________________

Brutus1_:

I told you guys here, the hits just keep on coming with Palin:

BREAKING: Palin Business Shut Down by State

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/2/174313/9403/46/583730


And check out the US Weekly cover:


http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/2/163845/8978/122/583646


That should just about do it. Palin is OVER! Hello Mitt!

____________________

Stillow:

@Mike_in_CA:


I think I told you weeks ago to request a ban of all the users you can't stand....no one forces you to blog here or read anything...

____________________

Brutus1_:
____________________

mrut:

@Paul:

Nader's website suggests he will be on every ballot except the write-in only states: Texas, OK, Indiana, North Carolina. I read elsewhere that he had qualified for 45 states and DC.

I'm not sure about Barr and the Libertarians--fewer states than Nader, I believe.

____________________

Paul:

I will comment on the question of whether the media should cover the families. I would say no except when the campaign uses the family to make a campaign point, such as pro-life in Palin's daughter's case or her own case with her infant. Another example is Palin using her son's deployment. You will recall Biden's son did not make this point about himself even though he is deploying as well.

Now what really bothers me is the decision by the McCain-Palin campaign to bring the supposed future son-in-law to the convention. The campaign cannot have this both ways. Either keep the children out of the mix or they are fair game. By the way, the mother of the boy would not say why he was not enrolled in his senior year of high-school ... would seem he has taken a detour from his educational studies? It will be interesting to see how this is explained --- that is the importance of an education. A day ago the campaign said this is a private matter. A day later the campaign says the boy is coming to the party. Cannot have it both ways.

____________________

Robi:

I did defend it. It's not the population size, it's the complexities of the state.

If Palin was in charge of 100 million people in her state and they were all fisherman, it would be easy.

I will clarify my statement thusly:

I believe that the size of the town via population was meant to also suggest that it would also be a less complex economy. Moreover, I do worry that she has not required the service of advisers to handle a national economy.

I am about to do what everyone (including you, stillow) should do:

Upon reflection, I have been reminded by economists that Clinton also came from a small state. The issue that is within my argument is that she has not had the people that would help her handle the national economy. Obama has been advised countless times (especially in the campaign) about what would be good for the nation and I am confident that these people are experts because of the acclaim they have received from fellow non-partisan economists (i.e. the economist). Obama can now speak clearly and for long periods of time about his economic plan. Palin does not have a plan of her own and cannot speak to the complexities of the US economy. Unlike Obama, Palin doesn't have the luxury to spend two years refining her policies. She has two months.

Her experience as not even a two year governor is also worrying because the executive experience that has been touted has not truly been real experience that one could hang their hat on yet. This is only in response to the right who say that she has plenty of executive experience. I would argue that 20 months is not enough to truly have "experience". Once again, remember my position that Obama's experience isn't that much more impressive, but the right needs to stop this nonsense. Obama has proven himself in the debates Palin hasn't and didn't get nominated via primary; she just got the second most powerful spot.

I do believe that the complexities of the US economy cannot be handled by an Alaskan governor that has only had to worry about the economy of a small and thus (by comparison to the US) incredibly less complex state.

So I will say it's not the size that matters *insert pun here* but it is the complexity of the executive office and the time spent in it that helps one tout experience.

I will never say that Obama has more experience in the actual executive office, but he has far more experience with the policies from the economy to foreign policy than Palin.

And regardless of even that argument, Obama's positions are far stronger (aka more sensible) than hers (the ones we know about for now).

____________________

Brutus1_:

Okay, some troll asked for a "number" that would make it count. Oh, I don't know, maybe four terms as governor of Alaska? Or at least one term as governor of California? More importantly, the accomplishments (in or out of office) is what truly matter.

The point is that not only does she have no real experience, she looks to be wholly unimpressive altogether. A dimwit, a dull tool, very similar to GW Bush, and the quotes from her at church serve to illustrate this point. If you think you (and your army) are doing God's bidding, then you are a delusional christianist that needs serious mental help - just like bush.

If Palin had been governor of Texas for a few years and turned around their economy and education system and balanced a budget for a few terms, and showed good judgment (like not abusing her power), then she wouldn't be getting attacked like she has been in the news.

But c'mon, 18 months as governor of a state of 700K? And before that, mayor of a town of 5K?? Get real. In addition, numerous scandals during that period? Yikes, that is a recipe for disaster.

On top of which, her education level is ridiculous. It could be argued that an Ivy League education didn't help Bush, but it is quite obvious Bush was getting "affirmative action for the rich and dumb". You try getting into Harvard's MBA program with a "C" average. They would laugh in your face. Obama actually accomplished quite a few things while in college, taking advantage of the opportunity, working hard and showing his intellect.

That is what I want from a president - someone obviously smarter than me who takes advantage of his opportunities and is also selfless to boot. Obama's good judgment has been apparent throughout his life. Therefore, I don't really care that he has a relative lack of experience on the national level - he has what it takes to be president. The same can not be said for Palin or McCain.

____________________

Robi:

And Brutus makes a contribution that actually doesn't sound like partisan hackery!

WELL DONE!

I'm not wild about the scandal talk but I can't always get what I want.

____________________

player:

@Paul:
You are just being selective because it suits your purpose.

@Stillow:
The reason that they(Obama's media hordes) are so down on Palin is because they are trying to force John McCain to do something that is out of the ordinary for him. If he does, They will shake his confidence. However, he won't. Obama has already blinked on the Biden pick. It doesn't suit his theology of change. So he is running outside the box. That has been the reason for the drop in poll numbers. The McCain campaign should keep the focus on the Obama blink. They know that he was going to pick Edwards.

____________________

Robi:

Player fits my category of people who make one-sided arguments that they know have flaws and knowingly do so.

I refer to my previous statement about my feelings towards them.

____________________

Robi:

I didn't even notice player talk about Paul being selective...kinda like the pot calling the kettle black huh?

____________________

Tom:

Yikes this is getting ugly! Now for some analysis as to what the polls are telling us. It appears that the McCain campaign's attempt to lure female voters away from Obama has at best failed, and possibly backfired. Note the fact that Obama's support is now higher than it has ever been in both polls. It appears that the Democratic women have all finally fallen behind Obama, while McCain's base was already behind him. I understand that McCain wanted to pick Joe Lieberman or Tom Ridge, but the latter would have been unacceptable to the base, and the former so unpalatable that there could have been a roll call vote in Saint Paul with Mike Huckabee being drafted from the floor. Now that the troopergate and pregnant teenage daughter stories are taking hold, it is becoming apparent that the vetting process was unacceptably rushed, although the McCain campaign is denying this. The one hope for McCain is that he is able to rescue his party's convention and get this lead back under 5%, otherwize the only hope he has is that Obama shows up to the debates wearing "the emperor's new clothes."

____________________

kerrchdavis:

player fits my category of people that have been doing drugs for too many years. Even from a conservative standpoint, I don't understand a single thing he is trying to say.

____________________

kerrchdavis:

Obama blink? Drop in poll numbers? Running outside the box?he was going to pick Edwards?

Can someone help me out? please?

____________________

player:

@Robi:
Did you ever find out anything about the statistics behind poll numbers? I know that you were asking everyone over the weekend.
@Stillow:
What about Obama's selection of Biden? Do you think as I do that the Biden selection was a spur of the moment pick. I mean that he was on Hannity and Combs a week before the selection saying that no way was it him. It selection looked hasty to me. He isn't compatible to with Obama's message of change. I think that John Edwards was the man until he was caught red handed cheating on his wife? What do you think?

____________________

kathleen san juan:

I got scared when I happened to see Sarah Palin address a group at her former church in Wasila.

She said God wanted us to be in Iraq.She was positive.
And God wanted them to build a pipeline.
I didnt get to the part where they started speaking in tongues.
I was too frightened.

We were lied into a 3 trillion dollar war and now this.

____________________

player:

@Kerrchdavis:
Because it is all about Obama. I know that he says that it isn't about him, but that is bull. The media knows this. The babygate thing was right from the John Edwards story still in the news. Now the news is asking if Palin was vetted or was a hasty pick. Come'on, McCain had weeks to make up his mind. He vetted her properly. The Biden pick was so totally unexpected that he didn't even expect it. He actually told everyone that he wouldn't accept the nomination if he was selected during the spring. He has come right out and told people that Obama isn't qualified. I'll bet that he wasn't vetted at all. Edwards was the choice all along.

____________________

Robi:

And all becomes apparent! Player, Hannity and Combs is a joke. Give it no credibility.

About the polls thing: I asked that a day ago and I got the responses I needed. Zogby is apparently included into the pollster website trend data.

____________________

marctx:

Ouch! This coverage is brutal. I'm starting to have some doubts. I'm not sure we can overcome this negative coverage. I hear the very enthusiastic excitement here at home and by the rebublicans on TV, but the negative coverage is much louder. Maybe Palin was a bad choice.

____________________

Robi:

Player:

Edwards was never in the running. Fox News has no idea what they're talking about and Hannity and Combs is a joke. Nobody thought Edwards would be vetted and nobody reported any files being transferred to the Obama campaign regarding Edwards.

____________________

Robi:

Kathleen san juan:

Back up your story with a source. I don't believe that's true.

____________________

Robi:

And now I get it...

With the daily kos and everything I thought she was serious

____________________

player:

@Robi:
Back it up dude! Edwards was vetted; Biden wasn't. You are constantly making wild accusations without any references. Hannity and Combs and Fox news are according to Democrat Governor and chair of the DNC Ed Rendell, the fairest reporting on cable. I watched him say it. Oh yea, and by the way, Barack Obama is going to be interviewed by Bill O'Reilly Thursday night. I wonder why? Doesn't he feel that he has this all locked up? Why go on Fox?

____________________

Ciccina:

@ Brutus

Since you are choosing to represent yourself as an Obama supporter, you need to shape up. Name-calling and slurs like "retard" and "pansies" are unacceptable, particularly unacceptable from someone who purports to be a Democrat.

This kind of behavior has already cost your candidate support. I'm sorry I have to be the person to point this out; I would hope that fellow Obama supporter do this instead. Instead their tacit acceptance of your bullying gives credence to the notion that Obama's supporters are "Obamabots" who will resort to any tactic if they think they will score a point.

____________________

Robi:

chair of the DNC is Howard Dean...that should tell you all you need to know about Fox's credibility...

____________________

Robi:

Ciccina:

look at brambster:

@Brutus1_

Please take your purely partisan and extreme BS and put it somewhere else. Your loony statements only hurt your cause, and as a liberal myself, I do not appreciate it at all, and I'm quite sure that absolutely no one on this site does.

You are the only person that has ever been banned from this site, and has been multiple times and with good cause.

Please leave. PLEASE!

----------------------------------------------

and I have criticized him too...sooooo....yea..

____________________

player:

@Robi:
You are petty. You see that I left out the word former meaning former chair by mistake. How old are you anyhow? A teenager perhaps?

____________________

Robi:

No but former and current are pretty important don't you think?

Joe Lieberman isn't a Democrat.

It's not petty and Ed Rendall doesn't get to comment about if the Obama campaign vetted John Edwards or not. Plus, every other news source barely even mentioned him. It was five:

Biden
Kaine
Bayh (sp?)
Strickland
Sibelius

____________________

Robi:

Would you really want people to know that you're getting schooled by a teenager?

You can breathe easy. I'm not.

____________________

player:

I looked at some of the tabs on the Gallop poll. It seems as if Obama's pick up came from pure independents. He picked up 5% from the last poll. Most of the numbers stayed the same. I wonder if that was because of the convention hoopla. I think that is was.

I also saw the pollster Frank Luntz on OReilly tonight. He says that the polls aren't accurate because of the Bradley effect. I also saw Mike Steele a few weeks ago say the same thing. He said that when he ran for Gov. of Maryland a lot of white people told him that they were going to vote for him but voted for his white opponent instead. I think that a lot of this is going on here.

____________________

player:

@Robi:
Like I said; you are petty.

____________________

zotz:

It has been confirmed that Tod Palin (Sarah's husband) was a card carrying member of the anti-American AIP.
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/todd_palin_was_registered_memb.php

What does this say about the patriotism of McCain's choice for VP that she not only pandered to a party professing hatred of the United States but was married to one of its members? Why isn't Hannity all over this story?

____________________

Robi:

I am petty because why? Because you take Sean Hannity and Bill Oreilly as credible sources?

____________________

player:

President Bush just finished addressing the convention. It was the best speech that I have ever heard him give. It came straight from the heart.

@Zotz:
No one cares. Your boss said to stop it with the family attacks. Listen to him.

____________________

in2veep:

Palin daughter should be dragged through the mud. If this was on the democratic side, you know it would be way worse!!! The hypocrtical right wing is always bragging about their values, how about this 17 year old getting knocked up!!! Lets be fair and do the same we would do if it was chelsea clinton!!

Palin daughter is a slut!

____________________

zotz:

player-
I'll withdraw my statement when FOX apologises to Michelle Obama. In other words, never.
Bush's idea of self-sacrifice for the troops is to give up his golf game. I'm sure the marines and soldiers in Iraq really appreciate that!

____________________

Robi:

To in2veep:

Simple answer:

NO and SHUT THE HELL UP!

____________________

djneedle83:

the repub convention is as inspiring as watching my grandfather sleep on his couch. lol

____________________

marctx:

i doubt you liberals even listened to the Thompson speech. Vote for Obama but listen to what a real man sounds like and what true character sounds like, sacrifice beyond your time but the bones in your body to put country first. You won't in you lifetime know such honor. Maybe we won't win, but at least learn about what real true life Americans sacrifice to put country first.

Reagan = Maverick
McCain = Maverick
Palin = Maverick

Washington might have the power to retain power, but the true reformers will make a stand.

____________________

Robi:

Really?

____________________

Robi:

I'm coming out of the shock of your arrogance and I have a lot more to say but this is the most important one.

You're not more patriotic than we are just because you say so.

____________________

zotz:

"Maybe we won't win, but at least learn about what real true life Americans sacrifice to put country first."

"Sacrifice", you mean like when Bush gave up golf in order to honor the troops. I cried when I heard that!

____________________

Florida Voter:

Wow, not impressed the the GOP convention. So far it seems paranoia has set in and that we are going to war with the world.

As for the definition of a maverick? You don't vote with your party 90% of the time and then be considered a maverick that can govern with consensus and negotiation. McCain is more of the same and we don't need Annie Oakley living at the Naval Academy.

____________________

marctx:

Lieberman contests that country comes first and the partisan politics of the past will come to an end not just in words but in reality under the presidency of John McCain.

____________________

player:

@ Florida Voter:
Obama voted with Bush 90% of the time. You think about it.

____________________

Robi:

OK player:

If Obama voted with Bush 90% of the time then why do people smear him as the "most liberal" candidate? Can't have it both ways buddy.

Marctx:

Liberman is a sellout after he couldn't win his party's nomination for senator and has been so ever since.

____________________

player:

John Edwards was Obama's pick until the affair came to light. Biden wasn't vetted; Guaranteed.
Reasons:
Biden had said a week before that he wasn't the one. Why did he say that? Because he wasn't being vetted thats why. Everyone that was vetted by either party when asked said that they couldn't discuss the candidates vetting system. Richardson was vetted and the Gov.of Virginia was vetted. Biden didn't say that. He said; it ain't me. The truth will come out about this.

____________________

marctx:

zotz:

If you even question the patriotism of John McCain, then you doubt the sacrifice so many have given to put this country first. With whom do stand? ...if you don't stand with our military and the troops that defend your freedom and right to support the radical leftist views of your party. How can you support your San Francisco values if you don't support John McCain and our military?

____________________

Robi:

Player:

You never cease to amaze me. You need way better evidence than Biden trying to throw off the press scent trail. Come on. You're trying too hard.

____________________

zotz:

DISINFORMATION ALERT!!!

player- that 90% number is pure BS!
Obama voted with Bush 40% of the time and that info is from factcheck.org
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/is_it_true_john_mccain_voted_with.html

____________________

Robi:

marctx:

You just made the McCain subliminal message very open. Nobody is doubting his patriotism (although I wish he would stop mentioning the POW thing so many times cause it might eventually appear that he is milking it although right now I don't think that's the case). But the McCain wants people to think that there are not democratic soldiers in our army. There are many as you can see in when Obama visits the troops. There are high ranking generals that are democrats. So stop it please. You sound foolish.

____________________

Robi:

zotz:

We are dealing with the Karl Rove Cronies.

____________________

zotz:

Robi-
Yes and don't underestimate them. They're dangerous!

____________________

brambster:

@zotz

No, they're loonies and they will always respond with some parroted talking points and they don't care if what they say is true or not.

How about we talk about polls instead? This certainly isn't getting anywhere.

____________________

Robi:

brambster has a point. I call upon all of us to talk about polls and not these issues. (see what I did there)

____________________

Bigmike:

Polls, what a concept.

My humble opinion, BO got something of a bounce. How much depends on who's polls you like. I will go with 5%, give or take.

In a week or so we will know if JM gets one. History says he will. How much is in large part up to him.

After that, the debates!!!!

____________________

marctx:

McCain is a true patriot Obama is not.

____________________

Robi:

And marctx can't stop can he? Sorry brambster but this is a microcosm of how this crap always happens (a republican says something really stupid). I will continue talking about the polls.

I do believe that the Reps. will get a poll bounce in the coming week cause of the convention but then the national poll will drop back to OB 46% and MP 43% until the first debate.

____________________

Bigmike:

OK, those who post on this site are pretty much like all of the others. Lots of hateful trash.

Half of you are gonna lose the election. Get over it.

A little decaf please.

____________________

tjampel:

"Instead their tacit acceptance of your bullying gives credence to the notion that Obama's supporters are "Obamabots"

There are people of all persuasions on this site who don't belong here and have consciously ignored the clearly stated rule...."Post an intelligent and civil comment"

Nothing is gained by one side provoking the other; no consensus will ever be reached that way; no fruitful discussion will come out of it.

Hopefully, we all here to see who can rank on each other most skillfully or to try to analyze and better understand the data in light of real world. We can and should analyze the numbers and discuss what they mean, how they bode for either candidate and/or party and why we're seeing them. We won't agree of course but there are extremely intelligent people on both sides and we can and should try to learn from each other. Every time a partisan speaks we have the opportunity to learn, even if it's just pulling a number out of their ass or blowing smoke. If we approach it that way we can actually be thankful for having an "opposition" to bounce off of instead of letting it all devolve into mud wrestling.

My take on McCain's VP pick:

Naming Palin is certainly an event which has changed the dynamics of this race. We should be discussing this issue here, but it doesn't require even slight disrespect towards Bristol, Sara Palin, or each other. We're trying (supposedly) to comment on how these events will affect this race and to make some sense out of the reasons for this choice. If an event, any event, even an embarrassing one, affects the course of the race it really must be discussed or we're not doing our jobs. The fact that some still don't believe that Obama is an American citizen and still think he's a Muslim does reduce his polling numbers, and is a totally legitimate area of discussion.

Bristol's pregnancy is relevant to this discussion by having the power to influence minds and, therefore, votes. Additionally, in concert with other details emerging on an almost hourly basis, it stokes the fires which have ignited and maintained the current media feeding (vetting) frenzy. MSM profits are made by keeping these kinds of stories alive as long as possible, and, understandably they're doing just that.

Sara Palin's actions, speeches, positions, and
perception are all relevant and fair game for discussion.

My take on her career:

When I look at her life story (from the bits and pieces I've been able to piece together, examine her positions on issues where she's had one, and examined her actions, where she's taken any, I see a person who's flirted with extremism, at the very least (via AIP and possibly Buchanan), defended the status quo when it was beneficial to her constituents or career (bridge to nowhere, hiring a lobbyist to cash in on Uncle Ted's pork, heading up a Stevens 527, and "singing from the same sheet music with Ted and Cheney in support of a pipeline), attacked corruption vigorously where it provided an avenue for advancement---or for perfectly honorable motives (in taking on Murkowski, Young, Oil regulators, etc.), and having made her case (possibly justified, mind you) for firing a state trooper to a State official in a very personal and persistent way and then firing the official when he didn't comply with her demands .(yes, we need to wait for more details on this one). This coupled with her firing of officials in Wasila for "failing to support the mayor" (as in support her reelection)

I also see a person who holds values that are as far right you can get in mainstream politics, from her belief that intelligent design be taught side by side evolution in public schools, to her 100% opposition to abortion in virtually every situation where the mother isn't about to imminently expire, her refusal to accept the "inconvenient truth" of global warming as a man-made phenomenon, her desire to remove polar bears and certain whales from the endangered species list, her opposition to sex education, which would help avoid teen pregnancy.....uhhmm....moving along. I admit that these are all positions that excite the base...and it certainly has done just that.

As for experience, she has plenty of executive experience running a small town (and leaving it with 22M in debt) and has run Alaska for 20 months. Has she had to deal with critical health and welfare and education issues during her 18 months in Alaska's state house? has she personally addressed any of these concerns? Is she knowledgeable about them? Does she have a foreign policy praxis, has she given serious thought as to how to run this country, as to what its most serious needs are? While we all know in our hearts that Palin lacks experience in many areas vital to a President right now the real question is whether this fact will cause lingering doubts in the hearts, minds, and fingers pulling those levers/or punching, marking, or touching that screen


Will we find any evidence in her convention speech? Maybe, maybe not...depends who wrote it, and with pros like Mark Salter around, do you really think Team McCain is going to let her just wing it? I expect the speech to be good, possibly great. I kind of envy Mark, as Sara's compelling story and "realness" are grist for some great lines. She'll deliver them nicely and the crowd will love it and, with the bar being essentially set on the ground she'll look like someone with substance, grace, and ...gravitas??...nahh that would be asking for too much. Of course we don't know if she'll ever give the speech or will that honor go to Pawlenty or Mittens.

____________________

player:

@Robi:
I know the truth; Biden didn't get vetted.
@Zotz; If Bush signed the legislation on all of the post office namings and all the other things that Obama voted on in a democrat controlled congress then it makes sense doesn't it.

And whoever wanted to talk about polls. I made a good point a while back that you haven't answered. Look at my pollster Frank Luntz comments about the Bradley effect.

Robi I know you don't know anything about polls or the Bradley effect so we will excuse you.

____________________

brambster:

Given that Gallup Daily Tracking tends to give Obama his best results on Tuesday through Thursday in a clear weekly cycle, I would not be surprised to see Obama get even higher in at least Gallup. Rasmussen was a surprise to me. They were bound to undercount an Obama bounce by their party ID weighting which itself gives influence to their poll based on previous results. Rasmussen just also released new party ID numbers and moved the Democrat party ID advantage down about 2 more points to around 5 points, which also happens to be about 5 points lower than it's peak of over 10 points just a few months ago. Rasmussen already had the most Republican bias in their house effect of almost 3 points as discussed on this site, and this may in fact make that house effect even larger. Nevertheless, the polls generally are showing their highest lead yet for Obama, and this will no doubt start to show big movements at the state level...but watch out for Rasmussen's results.

I do not expect the RNC convention to cause much poll movement back to McCain. Probably there will be some, but it's not out of the question to see Obama continue to rise slightly given how sharply the press is critiquing the Palin selection, the selection process, and everything else. That's not a good equation for a Republican bounce.

____________________

Bigmike:

I agree with Robi, but expect something closer than 3 points. You don't get this far in politics if you can't deliver a scripted speech to a partisan crowd.

Anyone know what the unfavorable numbers are for both sides? To me, those say a lot.

____________________

John:

I would tend to agree with you Robi, (both about the bounce and about getting back to the polls) but perhaps with less undecideds so more about Obama 47-49 to McCains 44-46, depending on exactly how well McCain's and Palin's speeches go down.

____________________

player:

Oh and talk about disinformation; A few minutes ago, Campbell Brown on CNN was arguing that a governor of a state doesn't have any control over its own national guard. She was adamant about it. What a misinformed person she is. This just shows how biased these cable networks are.
On CNN a few weeks ago they were doing a financial report and their commentator went out of her way to say that the Bush Administration had bailed out Bear Sterns but wouldn't help home owners. What BS. The Bush Administration had nothing to do with it. By law, they couldn't have even if they wanted to. It was the Federal Reserve that made low interest loans available to investors who bought Bear Sterns. There needs to be an investigation into these Cable networks.

____________________

Robi:

Player I swear to god:

How has Biden not been vetted properly if he fills in everything Obama supposedly lacks?

What scandal or issue was not vetted properly?

Give me something to go on instead of a daily kos national inquirer-like approach to this theory.

I'm sorry everyone but I can't stand this kind of crap.

____________________

Robi:

Player answer my previous post, STFU, and let's talk about the polls. You love Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity so I know where you stand. Enough's enough and we're getting nowhere.

____________________

in2veep:

I cant believe the right expects people to lay off the Sarah Palin daughter pregnancy. Imagine the field day the right would be having if this was chelsea clinton. Isn't this the party that claims high values? HYPOCRACY! Lets tell it like it is: Sarah Palin daughter is a dirty slut that spreads her legs across Alaska! and please visit "stop sarah Palin" on facebook.

____________________

Robi:

OK before he posts anything else I am going to ignore it unless it's regarding polling and talk about the numbers.

I do believe that the peak of the convention bounce will be 48-47 McCain leading. That will be very short-lived and I believe that, unless there is a serious gaffe on either side, it will be 46-43 Obama. Anybody know when there will be more state polling?

____________________

Robi:

in2veep you hurt your cause.

EVERYBODY TALK ABOUT POLLS.

____________________

Mike_in_CA:

Robi,

no way it sinks back down to 46-43. That would be a ton of undecideds, with less than two months to the election. Obama's support is firming up, as he approached 50 in several polls. The margin may relax a bit, but I don't see him dropping much further below 48-49. 46 just seems way too low.

Also, I don't see McCain getting an advantage from this so-called "convention" (i.e. republican funeral). But, we'll see. Fred Thompson was supposed to bring fire toward Obama but I feel like it fell flat. It just fizzled. I think the support for McCain is at somewhat of a ceiling.

Either way, 11-12% undecideds in September seems unlikely.

____________________

Basil:

This would be a boring site if it was only technical poll analysis. While that's interesting, context is also interesting. But the personal attacks are uncalled for. I do take to heart Obama's general civility, and I am not persuaded that it's just a phony way to let his surrogates do the hatchet jobs.

Some of the "conservatives" here (I love that term. What are they really conserving?) are as wrong as they can be on lots of issues. They spin like crazy and project whatever shadows they have issues with onto imaginary "typical liberals" (Obamabots, who are Bizarro-world Dittoheads) who all have similar opinions and are similarly misguided, as the tighty-righties see it.

Knee-jerk lefties have many of the same anger issues. They're pissed-off at all sorts of things (that are as real as many of the things righties are PO'd at) and suspect that everyone's being paid by the GOP.

The antidote to cranky right-wingers isn't cranky left-wingers.

Hey cynics, can you tell I'm a Gandhi-admiring nut job who thinks that some people are more confused than others?

____________________

Robi:

Mike:

I think the 48-49 percent margin would only be reached after the first debate assuming Obama would do well.

I think there are a lot of undecideds because of the uncertainty that the McCain campaign has been able to put on Obama while people are sure that McCain is not a maverick.

I think people have short memories and will have the reps on their mind when they get the pollster phone call. That is usually the reason of the bump as I understand it.

____________________

Mike_in_CA:

Robi,

I understand what you're saying, but I think you are living in last week's poll analysis.

The slew of polls out today and this weekend suggests otherwise. Look at pollster's own graph. Undecideds have plummeted. Clinton supporters flocking to Obama are the primary reason. Last week, it was safe to say that the McCain campaign was able to portray Obama as risky, thus inflating the amount of Undecideds. But the past week, an entirely different narrative has emerged. Obama had a knockout convention, and he erased a lot of uncertainty. Sure the Republicans may knock some luster off him, but I can't see them doing much damage. Opinions start to firm up by now.

There's not ALWAYS a convention bounce. Kerry didn't receive one in 2004. I don't think McCain can get one. The poll narrative changes quickly, and it usually takes the media about a week to catch up. It sounds like you are still stuck on last week's narrative. The 48-49 threshold has already been reached....

____________________

Robi:

I certainly hope your analysis is right. I am a dem for Obama after all. We will see what happens.

Is it possible though that the introduction of Palin will have evangelicals that were polled decide for McCain or do you think they already have their votes counted for him?

Also, when are the next slew of state polls?

____________________

mrut:

@in2veep: You have a problem that politics can't solve. Please check in to your nearest mental health facility and get off this website. You're sick.

@Player: Campbell Brown was challenging the current Republican line that the C-i-C of the Alaska National Guard (the governor) commands troops in the defense of the national borders. Numerous McCain surrogates were claiming (confusedly) that Palin commanded troops in Iraq or against Russia. This, of course, is false. The governor can call out the National Guard in times of domestic emergencies (after earthquakes, floods) but has nothing to do with troops once they are in federal service, as in deployments to Iraq, and she is not in the chain-of-command at all in the national defense. Campbell Brown was asking the Bush spokesman for an example of a command issued by the governor to federalized troops and the spokesman, of course, couldn't name one because there isn't one!

____________________

Robi:

mrut:

I need more people like you to help me with people like them. Thanks.

____________________

Stillow:

@mrut

Governors do not command troops outside there states. The question was flawed. Palin did dispatch her gaurd to handle wildfires within the state. National Guards do not get called up very often in states. The spokesman clearly was nt aware of what was going on. The guy looks like he is tired all the time...clearly nto an effective spokesman.

____________________

Robi:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/09/02/sot.palin.trooper.tapes.cnn

I really don't know what to make of this honestly. Why is this tape an issue for her?

____________________

Stillow:

@Robi

Its part of the troopergate thing. Where the governor is accused of using her positio to fire her ex brother in law. Everyone agrees the guy should have been fired, the story is he is a real creepy guy who tazed his own kid, etc. But she supposedly fired the commisioner since he refused to fire the trooper. There's no proof she did anything wrong, right now its all accusations. She said she did nothing wrong, so unless hard proof comes about, it won't have any teeth against her....similar to travelgate with hillary....lotta smoke and mirrors, but at the end fo the day, ther's nothing there.

____________________

mrut:

@Stillow
Tucker Bounds (the spokesman) is actually good. You're right, though; he's probably very tired. Don't sell him short; McCain and his people all know what a governor's function is with regard to the National Guard. The campaign was riding the "Commander-in-chief train" for as long as they could before being called on it, stalling for time, if nothing else.
I've read that McCain's people are so harassed that they run the opposite direction when they see anyone holding a microphone. I don't blame them.

____________________

Robi:

The question wasn't flawed because it was a response to his implication that Palin has sent the national guard into Iraq and she called him on that implication and he couldn't take it back.

____________________

brambster:

For the full story, go to Alaska Daily News. For them, this has been fully discussed. The national media however has not made this into an issue yet except for the fact that it exists. The tapes will soon be headline news.

http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/492964.html

There were about 2 dozen contacts, including Sarah Palin twice, yet she publicly denied it. Many of the contacts came from staff very close to her, including her chief of staff. It is impossible to claim that there was not influence. This is why on October 31st, when the special investigator releases their findings, there will be definite negative headlines for the McCain-Palin ticket. The story won't end their either, this will likely only be a recommendation to the legislature for action, and those actions could be anywhere from censure to impeachment or other criminal charges.

The only reason why this isn't headline news is because the press is all over the vetting and pregnancy issues and trying to see what else exists.

As I have said before, this is like setting yourself up for an October surprise in the wrong direction.

____________________

Robi:

I will allow the court to make their decision in October and everyone no matter what party should agree on their ruling.

____________________

Basil:

The "maverick" brand is really funny. "Mutant" might be a more apt term, and though it's not necessarily a negative term, it suggests risk. Even though mutation is a driving force of evolution, most mutations are maladaptive and die out.

Saying "I'm a maverick. Follow me!" is not persuasive in itself, and it would seem to be a fundamentally non-conservative idea. Most mavericks get eaten by wolves.

It's just a word, but it's a word that probably won't work.

____________________

Robi:

Just for fun:

How big would the dip be for MP ticket if the ruling came today and she was guilty?

____________________

Robi:

Just so people know:

I really used to like McCain in 2000. He truly was independent and had a got stance on many issues that I liked. I really think that losing in the primary to the more extreme candidate got to him and ever since, it has been the big chip on his shoulder that he has obsessed about ever since. I think that's why he has changed his positions and voted with Bush so much in the past 8 years.

____________________

Stillow:

The trooper thing is the best attack the left has on Palin...ultimately it won't amount to much, but in campaign time they will try to make it stick....it really depend son palin and her response to it that should start tomorrow. I've seen legit reasons why hte commisoner was fired....so its really up to her to address it, if she addresses it well, the issue won't hurt her........this happens to all new candidates who burt ontothe national scene, just think abck to Clinton in 92 when he was called everything from a rapist to a crackhead...Reagan was called pretty bad stuff.
Its definately a good issue to play right now for the dems...in the end it won't hurt to much.

____________________

mrut:

@Robi:

Considering the fact that Troopergate is the most substantive of the "gates," once that's gone, she can recover. With so much noise around Palin right now, a finding against her in this matter (I'm not sure it would be a legal finding at this point, but could lead to an indictment down the road) might not make a big difference. It would be "just one more thing." It might seem quite trivial UNLESS it led to a criminal indictment (for perjury, say). Then she would tearfully leave the ticket and go back to Alaska. The drip-drip-drip is much more politically dangerous for McCain than a big crisis, I think.

____________________

Stillow:

@Robi

Obama has such a small voting record....most of the time in Illinois he voted "present". In the Senate the last couple years not much major legislation has come up....Obama however did vote for the Bush energy bill...whereas McCain voted against it....Obama for what little voting record he has....does have some issues where he supported Bush...and McCain went against Bush...helping him with his Maverick status. Most votes in Congress are resoltuion votes to congratulate sports teams, etc...so the 90% is a bit misleading on its face....

____________________

Robi:

To Stillow:

I really really think the Obama campaign will not do that. They will say what I am saying and will reserve judgment with the court's ruling. I think the McCain campaign didn't do their homework well...BUT NOT THAT BAD. That would be the worst vetting job in history I think. She's probably not guilty but it most definitely doesn't help her.

But I want to have a little fun and have people guess what the national gallup poll would be a week after palin was found guilty (assuming it was so).

____________________

Stillow:

@Robi

Let's be real, there are Obama people helping to fuel the fires of troopergate and Palin's dughter....Obama publically has to refute it or he would take a beating. Just like McCain will refute the Wright and Ayes ads when they hit in a few weeks, but we all know the insiders will be pushing it....both sides have there dark circles which push the nasty stuff, while the campaigns themselves claim innocence. Its always happened that way...and always will.

____________________

Robi:

I think your wrong there. If there are TV ads then fine, they are related to whichever campaign they help. I understand that. Anything requiring massive financing is linked to whichever campaign.

But I don't buy the idea that crazy bloggers are all affiliated with any campaign. Pundits and SUPPORTERS (not people on the campaign's payroll) also should be excluded from being associated with the campaign plan.

I am an active Obama supporter and we campaign for him and canvass for him and we are told by the leader (who is a low-level obama staff member I think and is not anybody special) to stay on the issues.

____________________

mrut:

@Robi:

The Troopergate investigation is not in Obama's hands. The Obama campaign can publicize it but they can't direct the finding. Currently, the investigation is being conducted by a legislative task-force of some sort, headed by a Democrat. (I didn't know Alaska had any of those, but apparently they do.) Before she found herself running for VP, Palin promised full cooperation but yesterday hired a lawyer and is trying to take the investigation away from elected officials and give it to a board she appointed. Everyone in Alaska seems to know or be related to everyone else, so conflicts of interest seem almost unavoidable. You're asking us to speculate on the response to a negative finding against Palin, but no one can say without knowing the authority of the investigative body and the precise nature of their possible findings. In other words, what does "guilty" mean? Does it mean a recommendation to indict in a criminal court? Help me out here, all you legal scholars. I'm not a lawyer. This would obviously determine how seriously a negative finding would have to be taken by Palin and McCain.

____________________

Robi:

I will admit something. In the recent months, with the nasty tactics like the smear book "Obama Nation" and other things, I really wish the Obama campaign would get nasty as hell. But perhaps that is Hubris on the McCain side. I have been so angry at the absolute absurdity that both sides talk about and I even get involved in that I get sick of this election. My question overall is simple I guess.

Why can't people just focus on policies and the real policies not the fake ones and not on the stupid crap that is just trivial at the end of the day?

____________________

Stillow:

Its wayto early for the what if game. They could come back and say Palin did nothing wrong...or they could say she did everything wrong...is it an issue the people with care abut either way? We don't know that either. Certain issues never stick, guilty or not...Clinton's ipeachmant for example, most forget he was actually impeached by the House...most, including myself think it was all a joke.

@Robi

Trust me, the campaigns have people in them engaged in dirty deeds....presidential poltics is the dirtiest game in town....its vicious....both sides do whatever they can to trash the other guy while tring to be the golden goose.

____________________

Robi:

back on the lighter subject, to answer mrut, I meant she was found guilty of abusing her executive power to fire the commissioner who would have otherwise not been fired.

____________________

Stillow:

@Robi

Obama's side hasn't even got started yet on the negatives. Clinton himself came out and said they ran a very dirty campaign, even used the race card against him....Obama's team, as will McCain's team, get down and dirty....they are competing for the most powerful position i nthe world.....its gonna get dirty.

____________________

Robi:

That's the problem I have with this race! This is the most powerful position in the world and everybody is worried about stupid crap and not the actual policies!

Why the hell is the American population so hopeless that campaigns have to appeal to the LCD?

____________________

brambster:

@Stillow

If you had a clue, you would know that since the Commissioner's job was an appointed position, no law was broken by simply firing him, though this is the biggest wrong that was committed since he was doing his job properly by not caving to the improper pressure. The legal issue is whether or not such influence was used, regardless of the firing of the commissioner. There are 24 or so contacts on behalf and by Palin, and that makes this very clearly an abuse of power, and one that has laws that address it.

The one tape that was released was released by Palin's office, and it was quite damming. There are also a host of other recorded calls and E-mails that will likely be released to the public when the investigation concludes. So there will be a ton of new damming information on October 31st for the press to dig through over the following days.

This is a recipe for disaster.

This whole thing also reached it's peak just two weeks ago, and McCain still chose her. This was a serious lapse of judgment. This won't turn out good, it could only turn out neutral or bad. This will move some people away from McCain. This will be the #1 most popular topic for questioning Palin in every interview and debate (once they stop sheltering her).

Now go paint that any way you wish. Your opinion doesn't matter.

____________________

Robi:

brambster:

I don't agree with stillow on a lot of things but can we please for the love of god inform people without insulting them as much? Stillow has not called me clueless in the convo thus far although we have said mean things before.

Let's try to tone down the rhetoric a little.

____________________

Stillow:

Everyone complains about campaigns goign negative, yet it works. Take a look at soe of hte ads the left run in the south about electin a repub and black churches will burn....look at the swift boats....you can be negative and still have a valid issue, bu it works....just how it is. Think back to when Pete Wilson got the boot in CA, the left ran ads saying he actually wanted litttle babies to die who were poor. we are all partisans, you have your side, I have mine....very easy to get negative quickly.

____________________

Stillow:

@brambster

Yes thank you, I already got it...aren't you supposed to be ignoring me? Remember, I am just a clueless conservative....your the highly educated and enlightened liberal...it does you a disservice to even discuss with me.

____________________

mrut:

@Stillow:

In general, it is not in Obama's interest to attack Palin at all. I'm speaking here in purely Machiavellian terms; you need not suspect me of idealism.

Troopergate plays very differently than Bristol Palin's pregnancy, and Obama's campaign is smart enough to know it. They DEFINITELY want people to focus on Troopergate more than anything else. By far their most effective argument is that John McCain is dangerously reckless about important matters, and that he makes decisions emotionally rather than deliberatively and rationally. McCain, then, becomes the risky candidate, not Obama.

They have absolutely nothing to gain by probing the life of this young girl and everything to lose. Why is it happening, then? you ask. Why is speculation about who is pregnant with what all over the blogosphere and--coming soon--the tabloids? It's not a political conspiracy, believe me; it's a natural (and rather horrible) human curiosity about a newly famous unknown--the Palins--with a secret (the pregnancy, which they were going to try to hide somehow--I still don't understand that). McCain and Palin could have prevented all of this by merely introducing Palin as a mother of five (good) and a grandmother-to-be (oops, but it could happen to anyone). This would have saved the campaign three days of rampant speculation, wild rumors, and a feeling every day that another shoe is about to drop. The Palin introduction was very badly handled by McCain. Palin should have insisted on making it known upfront, too.

____________________

Robi:

Stillow the issue is that the negative ads are on issues that are of no real importance or are arbitrary or just aren't plain true.

They aren't asking Americans to decide whether or not they want their president engaged in aggressive diplomacy or limited diplomacy. They are talking about 3AM phone calls and how many houses a person owns.

The American people should know what policies their candidates actually would implement and not the false and incorrect interpretations that their opponents have. They deserve to judge for themselves.

I took a political psychology course and I know that negative advertising works, but for all the wrong reasons.

____________________

Robi:

I JUST SAW THE AYERS AD.


**** THIS

____________________

kerrchdavis:

*yawn* you guys still going at it? :)

____________________

Robi:

I am back to hoping that the Obama campaign is going negative. This above the fray **** was ok for the small stuff but to do this blows my mind away.

The absolute false claims that are made in the ad are astonishing and I hope slander laws gets this organization sued till they have nothing left.

**** this the gloves are off and Obama should feel free to do whatever he wants. How do these people sleep at night?

____________________

kerrchdavis:

Robi, do you have a link to the Ayers ad?

____________________

Robi:

I don't know if I should post it out of not wanting to spread it......but someone else will so....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m89m0pC_bpY

____________________

Stillow:

@Robi

That's what you get with 527 groups. I've seen the ad too, dunno much about the Ayers thing, have not looked into yet...all I know is that he was freind swith Ayers, but thats about it.

____________________

kerrchdavis:

Questioning the patriotism of either candidate is ****ed up and completely irresponsible. I think most Americans will be intelligent enough to see right through this bull****.

____________________

Robi:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/nextswiftboat

That is the official explanation on the "fight the smears" website.

____________________

Robi:

Stillow:

Reference similar feelings you had to the babygate coverup and multiply that by a million and you have my anger level.

____________________

Stillow:

To a non political junkie, the ads are effective...not so much on its own...but if you run the Ayers ad say with the Wright ads that will come out, it does give off the perception, accurate or not accurate, that obama has radical freinds who dislike the country very very much. They are actually tough to defend against....so to the average viewer who doesn't dig for details, they could do some damage.
Personally I don't like them either...I think conservatives can beat liberals on ideas....liberals think the oppositte of course....but just wait for the Wright ads, or the keating ads with mccain will come back...i even heard rumors some nutty far left group was gonna air ads in a few states saying mccain faked his pow status and was really helping the n. vietnemeese........

____________________

Robi:

The last suggestion is never going to happen and that is put out there by the right to make the already far left to seem even crazier.

But for me, everything is fair game after I saw this ad.

____________________

mrut:

@Robi:

I'm not sure what you mean by "everything is fair game" now.

A political campaign is simply a long contest: the winner is the one who devises a good strategy and adapts that strategy to achieve the intermediate goal (winning the most electoral votes) and the long-term goal (positioning one's "team" to govern effectively). It can't come as a surprise to you that Ayers and Wright would pop up again. Obama's campaign seems to handle this as effectively as can be done, parrying the blow and (nowadays) hammering home the economic message (the reason for voting for Democrats). Obama has been working on the Democratic "brand" for a few months. Biden helps him "own" the economic (Democratic) message. Bill Clinton (not my favorite leader, but an excellent campaigner) showed that nasty blows--even if TRUE--can be deflected and characterized as distractions, but only if the candidate has a popular and credible agenda to offer the voters. It's probably better not to spread the noise and give the 528 groups any free advertising. It's definitely better not to let these things get to you. Look how dispassionate and thoughtful Obama is in the face of these attacks--on him personally. That emotional equilibrium enables him to think straight and win. Chin up!

____________________

Basil:

@Robi

Familiar with Aikido [eye-KEY-dough]? Google it some time. It has to do with effective responses to aggression without descending to the mental state of your attacker. As both physical technique and psychological practice, it's illuminating.

McCainiacs may find it a little soft on evildoers, but they've got issues...

As mrut suggests, Obama's approach is something like that of an Aikidoist. Cynics will contend that his "surrogates" are there to do the nasty work for him. I disagree, and I hope not.

You don't get to be the brightest student Lawrence Tribe ever met without having something most others don't.

Common Aikido saying: "don't lose your center" (of gravity or awareness).

____________________

Robi:

I'm still pissed but I thought about something else anyways.

Obama is on the O'Reilly Factor on Thursday.

I was wondering "Why the hell was he going to be on there?" until I remembered that the RNC has its final speaker McCain that night accepting the nomination and most Republicans watch Fox as I understand it.

Brilliant move!

____________________

saywhat90:

the bristol palin pregnancy was not broke by the so call liberal media. it was sarah palin herself who announcec it. noone made her do it. it wasnt even a news story until she announced.no msm was even tallking about babygate before then. noone in the msm was questioning if the baby(her fifth child) was hers or her daughters. troopergate was the only thing was being vetted at the time by the msm. the only thing the msm statred asking at first was why announce it and then when the msm speaks on it you holler this is a private family matter and how dare they talk about my daughter. well it sarah palin who put her daughter out there not the msm.anyone know that dont give a shark food if you dont want a feeding frenzy.so all this nonsense about the media is attacking her is bs. but i do agree that it should be a non-issue for all sides. family issues i mean. now as far the other go the msm has every right to aggressivley vett a candidate. there is a reason why you vett your vps before you pick them. especially if they are relative unknowns.so that you can avoid situatuins like these. so once again stop trying to make this a bias issue. stop acting like if obama would have picked someone similar to her in experience that republicans wouldnt have questioned his judgement or his leadership. stop jumping to sexism when someone questions her qualifications. i dont know anything about palin. sure she is a great mother and a great governor. but i have every right to question what says and to question what she has done.it was the same thing i did with obama.it is the same thing im doing with biden. the smae i did with mccain. and now i will do it concerning biden. i mean i honestly truly respected john mccain for his stance on issues. would have seriously voted for him in 2000 and maybe even now. but he abandoned those issues to cater to a base he didnt have to completely sale his soul to.thats not a maverick.if you are going to challenge your party then why wouldnt do it with your vp pick. sarah palin is not a maverick move. she is a hardline right winger.lieberman would have been a maverick move. i would have repsected that. it would have at least told he is willing work across the aisle as president. but he didnt he ccater to the evangelical base. he caved under pressure.and bfore you try to pull the sexist card. i dont care about her being a woman. if he had picked say olympia snowe ro kay baily hutchinson it would have been a maverick move. if im not mistaken they are pro-choice.so no this isnt a maverick move at all not when you do what others want and not what you want.

____________________

John:

Here is something which might cheer you up, Robi

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/old_grizzled_third_party

____________________

thoughtful:

Back onto polling and away from the rhetorical.

John McCain Convention bounce or dip as expressed in the trackers. We will see next week.

Rassmusson has just adjusted his ID weighting to again slightly favour Republican voters. I think that that may increase the bounce.

I would expect despite the ID adjustment a further possible 1-2% uplift in Obama's lead today with a reversal of the Palin 2-3% bump which featured last Saturday and Sunday as seen in the 08/30 thru 01/09 numbers, anything more or less to Obama might be considered - Palin Effect 2!

General Election Match-Up
John McCain vs. Barack Obama
Match-up without Leaners Match-up with Leaners
McCain
Obama
Spread
McCain
Obama
Spread

09/02/2008
43%
48%
Obama +5
45%
51%
Obama +6

09/01/2008
44%
47%
Obama +3
46%
49%
Obama +3

08/31/2008
44%
47%
Obama +3
46%
49%
Obama +3

08/30/2008
43%
47%
Obama +4
45%
49%
Obama +4

08/29/2008
43%
46%
Obama +3
45%
49%
Obama +4

08/28/2008
44%
45%
Obama +1
47%
47%
Even

____________________

thoughtful:

I thought that this might be of interest!

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109975/Obama-Gains-Overall-McCain-Among-GOP-Women.aspx

Previous Gallup analysis has suggested that McCain's selection of a woman as his vice-presidential running mate might have the most impact on independent white women, who before the Democratic Convention were essentially split down the middle in terms of candidate support.

These data show, however, that at least initially, McCain has lost ground among both white independent women and white independent men (and among Democrats of both genders) since the convention and his vice-presidential selection.

Instead, the data suggest that McCain has in essence fought a rear-guard action of sorts among white women of his own GOP base, building their support to a degree even as he was losing support among independents and Democrats of both genders.

It is possible, but not provable with these data, that McCain's selection of a woman, Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska, as his vice-presidential running mate may have had the effect of solidifying support among women of his own party.

The Republicans no doubt hope that this week's convention, and in particular Palin's address on Wednesday, will help them make inroads not only among white Republican women, but also among independent (and perhaps Democratic) women.

____________________

Brutus1_:

Please god, please let Palin go through with it today. Don't withdraw Sarah, don't withdraw! Tough it out girl!

Looks like the good Governor has a church problem too. Uh-oh. More headlines to talk about for another week. Yikes.

She is most definitely a GREAT pick for Mr. McCain. Thanks John! Repub trolls, please keep saying she is a great pick!! I love it too!!


http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/anti-jewish-ter.html

____________________

Brutus1_:

With Ms. Scandal-A-Minute as his VP, the liberal bloggers made a big mistake. They should have been like William Wallace in Braveheart in the scene when he has all those sharpened logs hidden and is awaiting the English attack - he keeps saying, "Hold! Hold! Hold!" even as the english are bearing down on them - and at the very last moment unleashes the spears for maximum effect, taking out the most english horses and men.

You see, the bloggers should have held the stories for at least today or thursday - since it takes the media a day to catch up and actually report/research the stories. This would have engrossed the pathetic mccain/palin ticket in scandal for another month. Now, there is still a chance that Mitt Romney can come in to rescue the ticket.

Of course, that assumes that Ms. Unvetted has no other scandals or skeletons in her closet.....

____________________

TR in VA:

NY times issues OFFICIAL apology on Plain and Alaska Ind party story

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/alaska-party-official-says-palin-was-not-a-member/

HOW is it that the NYT the nation's paper of record has a story where the reporter does not even Bother to to do basic fact checking...???

I mean getting a copy of voter registration cards is NOT james Bond/ CIA stuff


____________________

TR in VA:

why is that Poll of ANY interest since it was taken AFTER Obama the magic negro convention but BEFORE the RNC?

In fact how is that poll in anyway significant since everyone EXPECTED Obama numbers with those demographics SHOULD of gone up?

now if those number are STILL the same come say SEPT 9 ... THEN you have something.

____________________

Shannon,Dallas,Texas:

@TR in VA

Who is allowing racists to post on this forum? His comment is very offensive and should be removed.

____________________

Shannon,Dallas,Texas:

@TR in VA

Secessionist Sarah's husband was a card carrying member for a number of years. Palin spoke at their convention.

http://www.ajc.com/services/content/news/stories/2008/09/02/palin_husband.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=15

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Liberals are gasping for breath as they accurately forsee the McCain-Palin storm churning off shore and strengthening. They know their levees are built with straw and mud no matter how many images of reinforced concrete their media put on the screen. True Americans are conservative at heart and they'll show it in November. The flood is coming and liberalism will feel the full impact.

____________________

Shannon,Dallas,Texas:

@saywhat90

Yes, it sounds like the liberal media wasn't the reason Palin decided to break the news about her daughter. After reading about the story in the blogs, the National Enquirer sent investigators down and this appearently scared the McCain camp. CNN also sent a reporter but it looks like the Enquirer was there first.

____________________

zotz:

"why is that Poll of ANY interest since it was taken AFTER Obama the magic negro convention but BEFORE the RNC?"

Can we at least agree to keep racism off of this forum. And don't tell me it's just a joke.

____________________

Shannon,Dallas,Texas:

@NeverMetAnHonestLib

Did you even bother to look at the poll before you started into your diatribe?


Obama 50%
McCain 42%

Take it in for a minute. It's not coming back. McCain's going to lose another 1% or so after his own convention and that's where it's going to stay. This is about where Democrats are going to be nationally. You trolls better start pushing your candidates for Senate or you're going to wake up on November 5 with a big headache.

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

How many former Republican VP candidates have supported a democrat for President? This is history making.

____________________

Tybo:

TR, yeah we know you're an obama fan trying to play outrage card.

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

First Zell Miller and now Joe Lieberman. Which party is losing ground? You can't find more respected democtats than those two.

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Palin's speech tonight will be viewed by more Americans than Obama's unless the MSM can find a way to break away.

____________________

zotz:

NeverMetAnHonestLib-
Zell is a right wing neanderthal.
Joe is a zionist neocon.

I'm tellin' ya- you should vote for Barr!!!

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Makes my point. Zell and Joe are both honest men.

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Since the majority of American women identify themselves as somewhat or very conservative, it's pretty likely they will go for Palin unless they lie to the pollsters. Certainly people don't lie in polls?

____________________

zotz:

Certainly! That would be against the law.
You're funny!

____________________

Shannon,Dallas,Texas:

@NeverMetAnHonestLib:

"Palin's speech tonight will be viewed by more Americans than Obama's unless the MSM can find a way to break away."

"Since the majority of American women identify themselves as somewhat or very conservative, it's pretty likely they will go for Palin unless they lie to the pollsters. Certainly people don't lie in polls?"


Obviously, you one of the uneducated voters that does not have a college degree that the Republicans depend on. There's nothing wrong with that. You're still an American, my friend. However, if you learn to read, you'll be able to actually report on the facts.

Nielsen ratings for the convention:

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/tag/republican-national-convention/

Just a note, Barack Obama's speech drew the largest audience so far for the Democrats (24.5% of all American homes), it beat out the opening ceremony of the olympics.

Gallup show's Obama with a strong lead over McCain among women voters:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109975/Obama-Gains-Overall-McCain-Among-GOP-Women.aspx

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

See page 18 of the Battleground Poll:
http://www.tarrance.com/files/11633-Battleground-Poll-questionnaire.pdf

This is what makes liberals shake in the boots, and McCain gets it. 62 percent of Americans identify themselves as conservatives and only 34 percent liberals. The same polls haven't changed much since 2002.

____________________

Brutus1_:
____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Thank you Shannon. It's always good to have friends with differing points of view. I am sorry to disappoint you, though. I fall in the same category as the 18 percent taking the Battleground Poll that hold a graduate degree.

____________________

Brutus1_:

From Sullivan:

Yes, Sarah Palin sat in a church where this message was given. Two weeks ago. The karma in all this is just amazing:

Brickner also described terrorist attacks on Israelis as God's "judgment of unbelief" of Jews who haven't embraced Christianity.

"Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It's very real. When [Brickner's son] was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment — you can't miss it."

Palin was in church that day, Kroon said, though he cautioned against attributing Brickner’s views to her.
How does Hannity deal with this? After what he said about Jeremiah Wright?

____________________

thoughtful:

Ok Folks from Rassmusson Daily:

Obama currently leads McCain by fourteen points among women but trails by four among men

Today's tracker 50 - 45.

I suspect just as the Repub weighting has been adjusted something is up with Ras' weighting between the gender as Thway the genebders are breaking creates an obvious statistical anomoly Obama's lead is understated and some!

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Liberals are so predictable. They try to muddy the waters by comparing big red luscious apples with over-boiled peanuts. Twenty years sitting under the leadership of a devout America hater makes a tasty pie. The old peanut ends up in the garbage.

____________________

Brutus1_:

Looks like the retarded repub trolls are here again......


Tell me, how does it feel to be mocked around the world for being a retardlican?


____________________

Brutus1_:

Hmmm, how is the jew-hating Palin going to play out in Florida I wonder?

No wonder she was a Buchanan supporter.....


____________________

thoughtful:

Voice/Brutus1_

Please try to keep it civil.

____________________

Brutus1_:

Someone poll Florida please.

A Buchanon loving anti-semite can not win south florida.

____________________

Brutus1_:

Check out the comments


http://blogs.abcnews.com/liveblogging/2008/09/how-palin-is-pl.html


These are abc readers, not even kos, or msnbc folk. My favorite-


"I'm still unsure if Sarah Palin is campaigning for public office, or auditioning for a role in "Juno-2-Baby Got Bump""

____________________

Brutus1_:

Please keep her on the ticket. Pretty please.

Palin/McCain change that will secede!

____________________

saywhat90:

@nevermetanhonestlib:

what kind of nonsense is that. true american are conservative and liberal. there is no definition of a true american.ii am a true american whether i agree with yuo or not. conservatives do not hold exclusive right to what america is or will be. our forefathers did not agree on all the issues of their time.but noone today see any of them in a poor light or dares questions thir patriotism because they had different views. if they were alive today they would be ashamed to see what they fought so hard to gain for all american being used as a tool for politics and pandering to a base. freedom and patriotism is not exclusive to an ideology. what you think is right for this country is your opinion not a fact.who you think are true americnas is your opinion not a fact. its okay to express your opinion but i ll be damned if you ill allow you to dencounce anyones(repub or dem)patriotism. we all love our country. and sometimes it is tough love but it is love nonetheless.so back off.

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NeverMetAnHonestLib:

I would love to sit down with John, Cindy, Sarah, and Todd and bite into a juicy moose steak.

Nobody doesn't like Sarah P.

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marctx:

New York Post, Andrea Peyser writes:
A TIME-WARPED SEXIST ASSAULT

"HOLY hoop skirts: When did the clock tick back to 1958?

When Joe Biden tragically lost his wife and infant daughter in a car wreck in 1972, not a single colleague, friend or competitor advised him to quit his newly won Senate seat to raise his two little surviving sons.

Rather, he was sworn into office from the injured boys' bedside, and took to commuting an hour and a half each way from Delaware to Washington. And when Biden's second wife gave birth to a daughter, no one thought to ask him to step aside and stay home. "

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NeverMetAnHonestLib:

You can read into my statement what you want to read. The polls do show that the majority of Americans truly identify themselves as conservatives. I suppose the last six years of consistent polling results could be wrong. But then waht does that say about these daily polls? Of course you could take the Clintonian approach and say it depends on what the definition of true is.

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thoughtful:

Marctx

I agree with you. Having 5 kids is not a disqualifier. in fact ina stressful job the joys of children are a positive relief.

I wish that people should stick to attacking Sarh palin on policies and the lack of any real experience or knowledge of the world outside Alaska.

That doesn't mean she has nothing to offer the nation but what it does mean she has a very steep learning curve to understand the diverse culture of The US and obviously outside the US. You can't play or govern the chessboard if you can't see the pieces on the table let alone understand all the different moves!

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Stillow:

@thoughtful

Are you guys ready on your side to see the biggest media backlash in this country since ronald reagan? It starts tonight....McCain camp finally came out this morning and said enough is enough....and they are going to stomp on all these personal attacks on palin....and end the disgusting rumors about her.

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Publius:

According to the Republican argument, Sarah Palin (18 months) has more executive experience than John McCain (zero). Democrats need to begin mentioning this inconvenient truth.

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NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Using your logic...

McCain 0
Palin 18 months

Obama 0
Biden 0

How does this help democrats?

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Publius:

HonestLib

It's a non-issue for both. According to the numbers you've posted, Sarah Palin is the most qualified of the four. That's illogical and wrong.

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thoughtful:

Stillow

As you well know I agree with you, MSM and some of the so called progressive on line media and people on this site have said and written the most awful things.

I hope that we can return and attack Palin purely on the narrowness of her experience in Alaska, on her non-secular views, on her denial of man's responsibility for global warming, lack of regard for the polar bear, on her policies what ever day are as she does not apparently have any view at the national level, on her seemingly lack of judgement in dealing with the brother in law, on her lack of suitability for being President of the United States in 5 months time.

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mrut:

I'm interested in what tack Palin will take in her speech this evening.

She doesn't have to convince the cultural conservative base of anything--in fact, she brings them into the fold more solidly for McCain.

I have read McCain's people predicting that she will seem "normal," just like regular folks with all their trials and travails (like newborns with Downs Syndrome, pregnant 17-year-old daughters, their reluctant 17-year-old future husbands, and highly publicized shotgun weddings to plan). They have also predicted that this very human quality will appeal to blue-collar women, just like Hillary did once she got serious about campaigning in Ohio and thereafter.

I look at Sarah Palin and I'm not sure. She is very appealing and will probably be likeable. Everyone will want to watch her tonight, but will that translate into votes? Let me put it more plainly: will "Lunchbucket Lucy" vote for the gorgeous suburban supermom? I haven't known those two demographics to fall in with each other naturally. Sarah Palin, with her drive and her accomplishment looks more like your unempathetic supervisor than like Jane Average. Maybe she needs to be scuffed up a little to get the non-fundamentalist women's vote. Hillary is a nice-looking woman, but she dressed down when she campaigned in PA.

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zotz:

The issue of corruption is a valid topic.
Latest News Troopergate-
"(Palin's) lawyer is now demanding that the entire case be taken out of the hands of the independent prosecutor hired by Alaska lawmakers, and given over to a state personnel board -- whose three members were appointed by the governor herself."
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/palin_wants_independent_troope.php

This is starting to look like death from a thousand cuts.

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Stillow:

@thoughtful

Believe me, I would love nothing more than a pure debate of conservatism vs. liberalism, cus history has shown liberals will lose that fight. But there's going to be a backlash on the media and it will indirectly impact on obama....since the media is seen as having a liberal bias to it...i know that drives your side crazy, but people do see the media as having a big left elaning bias....polls back that up too....obama tried to get out in front of it by saying families are off limits, but he is gonna hav eto do more....after tonight i think people are going to slam the media for there treatment of her on non issues based items....nothing would make my side happier than to debate ideaologies.....thats a winner for us!

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Robi:

Boy I go to sleep and a lotta new crazy people show up.

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Robi:

Stillow:

Wait for the Obama McCain debate. McCain is gonna get crushed when Obama calls him on all his cheap lies.

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mrut:

@Robi:

It's waiting for state polling data that is driving everyone crazy. Nothing to feed on.

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Robi:

I agree that is driving me crazy too....CMON!!!!!!

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Stillow:

@zotz

You are right, corruption is the only valid attack on her....however, because the media and the far left have attacked her on a personal level, constantly bringing her kids into the discussion...it will backfire and that backfire will swallow up troopergate....the people will see al lthe personal stuff and its almost like an anti-venom to troopergate....she can use the line reagain did "there you go again"....the left screewed up brinign her kids into it and brining up al lthe nazi stuff now....

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Stillow:

@Robi

Have you seen Obama without a script? The forum a few weeks ago was a good indication of what to expect a lot of uhhh's and ahhh's from obama and straight forward answers from mccain. Obama stumbles without a script or telemprompter...and a debate with mccain is quite a bit different than a debate with hillary which was a love fest...

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Brutus1_:

stillknowsnothing- This is gonna hurt!

You are pathetic. Your arguments are simply lies. The whole world hates bush and republicans. Maybe you should travel or read the "internets" more.

By the way, here is a link refuting the bogus "Obama gets better treatment by the press" garbage:


http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/05/incoming.html

Down goes stillow! Down goes stillow!

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NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Then you agree your logic was flawed. So in what way would this inconvenient truth help democrats as you suggested?

The truth is ALL candidates have experience. It's executive level decision-making experience that could make a huge difference. I would say that Commander McCain had to make some pretty difficult executive level decisions--several of which cost him dearly but proved to be right. Palin has made many decisions at the executive level.

Obama and Biden have only been policitians. They are accomplished talkers but what have they really done? Democrats won't benefit on the experience issue.

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thoughtful:

Stillow

Yes by the way I have seen the Repubs agenda every body is on the case today. Is it a case of they doth protest too much?

Or Karma, this could be like Custer's last stand. The Geni is out of the bottle, these same republicans are the same guys who 8 years ago defamed McCain for fathering a black child with a prostitute- you know the one that He and Cindy adopted in Bangladesh.

So personally I hope that Rove, Schmidt, Davis get it blown up in their face. I have no time for hypocrite and woman exploiter McCain either.

So whilst I agree with you about the nastiness of some MSM and on-line people with Palin, I obviously want your side to be commeasurately destroyed so that these negative tactics that the Repubs employ and still do are banished from politics forever.

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zotz:

I will keep saying this until the dittoheads understand. (which may be forever)

"Executive experience" does not equate to leadership skills or foreign policy expertise. Being president is a lot more than being the manager of a corporation. Most serious-minded people do not believe that 20 mos. being governor of a remote state is qualification to lead the most powerful and complex nation on the planet. By the way Karl Rove said much the same thing when talking about Gov. Tim Kaine.

This will not go away no matter how many times the GOP robots chant their mantra.

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Brutus1_:

Only a crackhead would claim crashing a plane five times counts as "executive experience" - or for that matter, 18 months as governor of 700K people. Basically, the mayor of Fort Worth, Texas has more "executive experience".


No wonder the ENTIRE WORLD mocks Republicans.

Poor repubs, they just hate the fact that from Germany to Ghana, from Argentina to Australia - the whole world wants Obama. It must hurt neocons to be known as the "retarded part" of America.


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Robi:

A debate with Hillary Clinton is a love fest? Do you have any idea what you're talking about.

Obama does have the habit of saying a lot of "uh's" for everything. That doesn't mean he's stumped. You're talking about the faith forum where Obama was actually being thoughtful with his answers and talking about talking with his wife whereas McCain was using it as a stump speech.

Hillary Clinton is not an easy debater. Obama is gonna crush McCain who can't read a prompter nor answer a hard question. If you want links for examples I can give you some.

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marctx:

I can't wait for the debates. "Obama is going to crush McCain"???? hahahahah! Got my laugh for the day. "Crushed" isn't a strong enough word to describe what McCain did to Obama at Saddleback. I'll need plenty of coffee to get through Obama's answers.

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Robi:

OK Brutus that's just cruel.

Try to have a little more tact than that please.

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Robi:

marctx:

That wasn't a debate at all and the fact that you think so shows your desperation.

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Brutus1_:

Hmmm, Bush had "executive experience". Worked out well, didn't it?


Who do you want making the tough decisions - an old, out of touch fossil that finished 894/899 students in his college class, a University of Idaho grad, or a guy who graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law?

Easy choice there.

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mrut:

Alright, no one bit at my provocation, even though I threw in a dash of possible sexism. I'll make another prediction.

I think Palin will present herself well tonight. Viewers will like her and sympathize with her.

The Democratic response to a likeable, sympathetic Palin over the course of the campaign will be (drumroll) to stress that moms--especially working moms with all their challenges--need more support and help. That''s why the Dems are on the right side of issues affecting working women. Democrats understand the complex of challenges facing women: the need for healthcare, childcare, equal pay.

This is no criticism of Palin. Instead it brings up obliquely the fact that some families are making enough to cover costs on their own and that's fantastic; a lot of families, though, are struggling, and they need help. The Democrats understand that; the Republicans don't.

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Stillow:

@Robi

In a debate you only have 2 minutes to respond, 90 seconds of that will be uhhhh's from Obama. Hillary and Obama agree on 99% of items....
I can see it now! Senator Obama, do you support the second ammendement "Uhhhh, well, ahhhh, the issue is, ahhhhhh, do we want guns, uhhhhh, in the hands of, ahhhh criminals. We need to uhhhh, find a good balance, ahhhh, between uhhhh, gun rights and uhhhhhh keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, uhhhh, i think, uhhh....." you get the idea.

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Stillow:

@Robi
most people ignore brutus or voice or whichever name he decides to go by for the day....most of us don't even reply to him, you would do good to do the same.

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thoughtful:

Stillow

The problem here for Palin and the GOP is that now they are trying to cover up troopergate for the second time. On the tapes that I have heard it was clear abuse of power by her office and officials. Her own husband is directly involved!

You can not have a Vice President decend from Alaska like some sort of Beverly Hillbilly on to the national stage, the Palins will be/are already being caste as celebrities, you know the reality and scan mags need them for circulation etc.

Nothing these nightmare spinners at GOP can do about it. The boyfriend is already being depicted as "sex on skates". Forget about the refractions of Hufpo and Kos.

Palin is being held in snigger ridicule in every supermarket in the country. So she'll have the name recognition but will she help the ticket - if she survives. I don't know.

Backlash - there are at least 400 MSM reporters up in Alaska digging in the trash. nThis is not about politics this about human interest.

Blame McCain for cynicism

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Stillow:

Geeez, anyone watching cnn this morning? the media is wanting a paternity test now on trig..............
Unbeleivable.....the biggest backlash against the media and far left ever is coming... out of control!

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Brutus1_:

That's why you keep asking the same dumb questions, stillknowsnothing. You have gotten beat down repeatedly on this site.

Don't worry, the creationist lot will soon be reduced to nothingness.

After 11/4, it will all be over for you pathetic neo-cons. 60+ seats in the Senate, Obama in the White House, control of the House. It is OVER.

Deal with it!

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NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Attacking with the truth will be the republican's advantage this time around. In the past they just sat back and let the libs use their lies to gain the upper hand. They know they can never rely on the media to defend them, so McCain's camp has built a very strong and effective defense. Tonight we will all watch has rookie Palin gains some significant yardage. The commentators will do their best to make you think your losing. Don't be surprised if Dan Rather shows up to call Florida for the Dems. Just keep your eyes on the red. It's growing.

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Stillow:

@thoughtful

I've said all along troopergate is the only angle with any kind of bite to it the left has on her....unfortunatly, your side is to busy with babies, kids and paternity tests now....nazi's..........your side screwed up....the media is goign straight to the kos to get there news leads now. this is getting sick and twisted by the media and the left.....as a result troopergate in the end will mean nothing because people are goign to revolt on the media......bad move by your side and the media.

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Brutus1_:

Shut up stillow. No one in "the media" asked for a test. Stop making stuff up.

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Publius:

zotz

Thank you for the repetition. The point is that using a bean counter's attitude to calculate experience results in an illogical argument. Perhaps we can tally the candidate's GPAs and use those to show who's more qualified.

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thoughtful:

Stillow

The problem here for Palin and the GOP is that this is no longer a political play its a human interest story apparently with lots of scandals.

You can not have a Vice President decend from Alaska like some sort of Beverly Hillbilly on to the national stage, the Palins will be/are already being caste as celebrities, you know the reality and scan mags need them for circulation etc.

Nothing these nightmare spinners at GOP can do about it. The boyfriend is already being depicted as "sex on skates". Forget about the refractions of Hufpo and Kos.

Palin is being held in snigger ridicule in every supermarket in the country. So she'll have the name recognition but will she help the ticket - if she survives. I don't know.

Backlash - there are at least 400 MSM reporters up in Alaska digging in the trash. This is not about politics this is about human interest.

Blame McCain for the cynicism

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Robi:

Having a name like "nevermetanhonestlib" doesn't give one much credability no matter what they say.

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Brutus1_:

Stillow believes in creationism just like Palin.

ENOUGH SAID!


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Stillow:

@thoughtful

You are missin the point. The media is tryign to so hard to destory.....think back to 1980, the media was going totally nuts on Reagan....lookup headlines from back then and see the media just kill him....the people revolted, pushed the media aside cus when reagan spoke to them he connected. the media and the far left have created an unholy alliance and its going to hurt your side....aand the funny part is, they aren't letting up, they are digging a bigger and bigger hole for themselves.

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Robi:

I have a question for everyone here. Regardless of your views and for everybody please be honest and don't Rove it up.

Is Sarah Palin THE BEST choice for the Rep VP?

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Facts Only:

Mike Palin was an AIP member until 2002. Sarah Palin attended conventions in the early 90's. In June she addressed the AIP convention, warmly greeted it and expressed sympathy with its goals. See YouTube

Sarah Palin attends a Dominionist church. In her recent address she called the Iraq war a holy mission from God. Her pastor said anyone voting for John Kerry would not go to heaven.

She is claiming executive privilege and withholding e-mails in the troopergate investigation. Sound familiar?

She got her first passport and made her first foreign trip last year. Her website claims visits to Kuwait, Germany and Ireland. The Ireland visit consisted of a refueling stop.

She claimed to be against the bridge to nowhere and earmarks. However, she supported the bridge until it became politically inexpedient and hired lobbyists to obtain earmarks for Wasilla.

She does not support abortion even in cases of rape or incest. She is against contraception and any sex education other than abstinence. She cut funding for teenage mother housing.

Summary An opinion, not a fact. Sarah Palin is a dangerous extremist, totally removed from mainstream America.

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Robi:

I obviously say no and I think that, even though I don't like him personally or politically, with what the Reps have to offer, Mitt. would have been the best choice.

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Stillow:

@Robi

Best is to objective. Most Dems think Hillary was clearly the better choice, but Obama picked Biden because his side felt they needed a white male o nthe ticket. Palin is qualified and she is good...tonight is a big night for her on her ability to connect.... Look at Edwards in 2004, was the kerry's best choice? A one term senator who was a trial lawyer. Look at Quayle..."best" is not the right term to use i nthe context of actually holding the job...."best" refelcts what is best for the ticket in a given year.

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thoughtful:

Stillow

I am not missing the point.

Palin is no Ronald Reagan and

You are missing the point this is no longer a political story - human interest - scan mags. Much wider media feeding frenzy.

They have just about lost control of the media on this, Palin is surrounded by the nastiest of political operators in history - what goes around comes around. lots of media out there who will invent the same kind of malicious naratives that these guys (Rove,Schmidt etc)specialize in.

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KipTin:

Re: Palin investigation in Alaska

State Senator Hollis S. French II, a Democrat and former prosecutor, is directing/overseeing the inquiry and also picked the independent investigator, Steve Branchflower.

Democratic State Senator Hollis French says that the Palin administration has been cooperating and that subpoenas are unnecessary.

French is a STRONG Obama/Biden supporter/spokesperson. If it looks like he is heavy-handed about Palin, it will backfire the same as the Clinton impeachment frenzy, which actually raised Clinton's approval rating.

I would say that the onus is now on the Alaska Dems (especially French) to make sure the investigation is indeed fair, balanced, and NON-POLITLICAL.

BTW: The guy that Palin fired (Monegan)-- He worked "at will" (Palin was the one who originally hired him in 2006 at the beginning o her term) stated that no one asked him to "fire" the trooper brother-in-law. In fact, the complaints against the trooper-who-tasered-his stepson were addressed before Palin (or Monegan) took office, the union stepped in, and the trooper-who-assaults-little-kids only got 5-days suspension.

My guess is that Monegan sat on his behind and/or went his own way, ergo not pursuing the agenda set by his boss (aka "not a team player.") No surprise that a law enforcement guy would ignore the priorities of his "younger" and "female" boss. Like that has not happened before.

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Brutus1_:

What a bunch of BS stillknowsnothing spews.

If Obama put hillary on the ticket right wingers would still say, see Palin has more "executive experience" than them both.

Really, shut up. After all the BS you spew, I can smell your fecal breath from here.

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Stillow:

@thoughtful

You couldn't be wrong on this one my well meaning freind. The slaughter of Palin is going to backfire....Reagan was just a dumb cowboy from Cali...remember? Palin is just a dumb ladyfrom Alaska.....draw the lines....you will see, we can pick this up in a week or two when her favorable ratings skyrocket....and you will see.

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KipTin:

So the Chicago political machine behind Obama is not nasty? They make Rove look like a pussycat.

I think Palin embodies Teddy Roosevelt (McCain's longtime hero.)

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NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Palin was absolutely the best choice. Approval ratings higher than any other governor. She is absolutely adored by the people. She will fight along side McCain to end the corruption in both sides in Washington. Dhe has a track record of doing so. Biden is no maverick and Obama is just another liberal puppet with all his stings being pulled by the same old insider libs. The attention she'll bring to energy will resonate with Americans and we'll finally see true change. They are the real progressives and authentic conservatives. Progressive conservatism is the right direction. Not neoconservatism. It's brilliant!

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Andrew_in_California:

Regan was respected for his 8 years of service as Governor of California. He had experience reforming a high profile state for far more time than Palin. He played a cowboy in movies, your ability to make straw man arguments is astounding.

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Stillow:

@NeverMetAnHonestLib

Also what makes her a great choice is look how upset the left is? I thinkthey fear her a lot...they are tryign to destory her ealry like Bork or Justice Thomas.....this time it will backfire though. Liberalism would take a setback ifn a woman on the GOP ticket representing conservatism was elected....that is why the media and the far left are doing everything they can to destory her.

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thoughtful:

Stillow

Off the top of my head.You know I grew up in So Cal.

Ronald Reagan had been Governor of the state of Californa for at least 8 years!

He may have been an actor but he was head of the Actors Union (Screen Guild). Ronald Reagan had been active in politics originally Democratic for 40 years before he had went for the Presidency was well read etc.

Palin has not got the grounding and has never shown an interest prior to the pick in National affairs and running them.

Ronald Reagan had very few extreme views.

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Brutus1_:

Oh lookee lookee, another troll comes out of his cave to spew more BS.

Yeah, that's it, Chicago politics compares to what Rove pulled against McCain in '00 in South Carolina. Keep dreaming. Only a completely brain-dead chimp would think that.

By the way, Reagan was a dumb cowboy. Why do you think we were in a recession during Bush 1? Some people are still waiting for the trickle of his trickle-down economic policies. What a joke. The tool got alzheimers and Nancy ran the show the second term. Why do you think Reagan couldn't remember Iran-Contra? The media treated him with kid gloves, because he was a lovable grampa. Any other president would have been impeached for Iran-Contra.

Oh wait, who are our enemies now.........


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Stillow:

@Andrew_in_California:


You must be to young to remembr...anyone doubting it can simplygo look at headlines about Reagan in 1980....it was an all out media attack on him. Compare them to Palin now, the wording is different, but the result is the same...an all out attack on Palin.
I realize your leftist bias does not allow you to see it....and that is fine..

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Stillow:

@thoughtful

We're straying here, but the left never gets it why Reagan was so popular...it was not cus he was governor, led the union,or was a dem for a long time. He represented traditional conservative american values....and when he spoke, he connected with you instead of preaching to you.....you guys even 28 years later still don't understand what made him so popular.

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thoughtful:

Gallup Daily: Obama 49%, McCain 43%

Stillow

Its a roll of the dice. Palin will get abnormally large viewing figures tonight. The bad press has not touched her yet, just publicized her.

Tomorrow they will somehow have to make John McCain sound and look 10 years younger. Maybe!

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Stillow:

@thoughtful

Yes its aroll of the dice. And she needs to do well tonight. She needs to connect with average people. If she comes off tonight as distant or lacks the ability to communicate she is probably finished....the pressure is on her to perform. Similar to Obama's speech in Denver....its defiantely her moment to shine or crash........if she shines, I think Obama is finished due in part to the media backlash that will occur, if she crashes, then tell Obama to starting picking out the drapes.

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Brutus1_:

If Sarah Palin did not exist, Stephen Colbert would have to invent her. Tonight is going to be amazing theater. She will rock the house, and there will be a tsunami of Republicans claiming she stole the night and rescued the convention. And then she will become the entire story, eclipsing McCain, as she already has. And then ... the first actual press conference.

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thoughtful:

traditional conservative american values - what passees for those in Alaska are fairly extreme in the US as a whole.Great for the conservative core of the Repubs but she is way out Right for Reagan Democrats, who are probably closer to Biden!!

Most women aren't going to like her, thats apparent, maybe she'll recover!

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KipTin:

Think about this... Palin's husband (an Alaskan Native) once belonged to the AIP. Makes sense to me.

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Brutus1_:


Palin and the Bridge to Nowhere -


http://www.andrewhalcro.com/the_bridge_to_somewhere


Oh, you don't think you'll see this pic in an ad come October??


http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/oh-yes-and-she.html


The evidence is DAMNING.

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Brutus1_:

Yeah, if you want 49 states and want gas prices to go up. Idiot.

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thoughtful:

Stillow

you are being a little over dramatic. People will vote for McCain or Obama. The VPs really don't count for much. She really is a wild card as she makes McCain look obsolete. Sorry age again.

People like you who were nonenthusiastic about McCain would have voted for him anyway. She's worth at most 2% to the ticket in solidifying the base.

I don't see McCain tapping into the Indies or Reagan Democrats.

As I say she's a 25 years younger female Dick Cheney and thats how the Dems should paint her.

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Brutus1_:

The Washington Post reported Sunday, citing an interview with campaign manager Rick Davis, that the vetting process "included reviews of financial and other personal data, an FBI background check and considerable discussion among the handful of McCain advisers involved in the deliberations.

"In general, we do not do vetting for political campaigns except as it might regard investigations needed for security clearances," said John Miller, the chief FBI spokesperson.

The FBI did not participate in a vet, nor did it run a background check of Gov. Palin as part of the process.

Palin might already have a clearance that relates to her duties as governor. But the FBI can't speak to that, and in any event, those investigations wouldn't be accessible to the McCain campaign anyway.

Yes, that's right. The FBI does not do vetting for political campaigns. Davis and the other military/law enforcement fanboys at the McCain campaign no doubt thought it sounded, like, totally awesome to say there was such a check performed, but there wasn't, and never is.

And why not? Because what interest has the federal government got in doing the work that political parties and campaign organizations are supposed to do for themselves?

None, of course. It'd be the use of official government resources, which are supposed to be non-partisan, for overtly partisan political purposes. In other words, not only a huge violation of the separation between federal resources and private, partisan aims, but yet another blithe assumption by Republicans that the apparatus of state is rightfully theirs to use as they will.

This arrogance and abuse of power is why Bush is the most hated president in history.

This arrogance and abuse of power is why Palin is under investigation by the Alaska State Legislature.

This arrogance and abuse of power is apparently something John McCain and his campaign officials assume ought to be a part of their everyday operations.

And that's because this arrogance and abuse of power lies at the very heart of the Republican theory of governance. They believe the president ought to have this power. Hell, they believe Republicans who are running for president ought to have this power.

Enough.

Enough already.

This is Cheneyism at its worst and most dangerous. And here it is only just barely into September before the election, and already both McCain and Palin are neck deep in co-opting (or assuming they can and should co-opt) the levers of state power in service of their personal ambitions.

Disgusting.

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KipTin:

Backlash beginning... The new Obama ad is putting the "abortion" issue upfront and even the Democratic analysts say its a big mistake and repeated loudly "It's the economy, STUPID."

This now brings up AGAIN Obama's vote on late term abortion (and lies about it) in the Illinois Senate as well as his Saddleback quote "It's above my pay grade." And the culturally conservative "Reagan Democrats" who were once in Hillary's court and who may have moved to Obama because of Hillary's urge to do so, and who were still leaning Obama because of economic issues... Well... there they go again... to the GOP.

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Stillow:

@thoughtful

Again, you are totally wrong....you're going to see....like I said we can pick htis up in a week or two where one of us will have an "I told ya so" moment. She needs to perform tonight...no doubt about it.

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Stillow:

Any guesses on how many viewers tune in tonight? More or less than Obama....if it smore, its serious bad news for Obama.

____________________

Publius:

Stillow, et al.:

I understand and agree with you about Reagan's popularity. He spoke well and did connect to ordinary people, especially compared to Carter, who was not an effective president and a bit of a scold as well.

What you fail to mention is that Reagan was elected because people wanted change from what the governing party was promising. Liberalism had run out of ideas and was becoming a burden, even though most people identified themselves as liberal.

This is the situation we are in today, except it's conservatism that's lost its immediacy and energy and people are more fed up with Bush than they ever were with Carter. Read the right/wrong track numbers on almost every reputable poll and you'll see that people want a change from what the governing party is offering.

What the Palin pick has done is to actually move the Republican Party more rightward in a country that, at the grass roots level, is becoming more progressive and left-leaning (And by the way, Obama is no flaming liberal. I am, and he ain't one.) This is why the pick ultimately will not work out with the audience it was secondarily intended to reach; moderate women. She's too tied to oil and far too reactionary for the majority of the country. Her abortion stance is especially out of line with the polling results since 1980, whicht is that most people support abortion rights with some restrictions, but not as far as she wants to take it.

I believe that Palin will make a good speech tonight and stop some of the bleeding. People will discover that she's not as bad as she's being portrayed and she'll hop over the already low-lying bar the media has set for her. When the candidates actually have to start debating issues, though, McCain and Palin are on the wrong side of the country on the environment, education, economic policy, infrastructure and the role of the United States in Iraq (McCain can no longer argue that we should be in Iraq until 2013 thanks to his buddy George) and the world.

That's my contribution to civil debate.

____________________

Brutus1_:

I’ve voted a straight Republican ticket every year of my life since 1975, when I first came of voting age, but I was stunned and horrified by McCain’s choice of Palin. I simply cannot even consider voting for McCain after this choice, which speaks loudly of his own selfishness and fundamental frivolousness.

So I was shocked when I turned to the conservative blogs looking for others who shared my dismay and found a celebration going on. They really honestly believe that Palin’s "inexperience" and Obama’s "inexperience" are equivalent. I have had no luck at all in the past 24 hours trying to explain that Obama is quite obviously an impressive man (with whom I disagree on almost every major issue) with extraordinary qualities of organization, discipline and leadership. I see nothing in Palin’s record to suggest that she has any such qualities.

He is a man who has spent his adult life thinking serious thoughts about serious issues and having serious conversations about them with other serious, well-informed people; while Palin quite as clearly has done none of those things. He was the president of the Harvard Law Review; she was the point guard on her high school basketball team. She went to the University of Idaho for her undergraduate (and only) degree in journalism (!), while he excelled at Columbia and then Harvard. He taught Constitutional Law at the prestigious University of Chicago Law School, and she was Miss Alaska. He has passed all sorts of legislation in the Illinois legislature and the Senate the last 10 years. She occupied herself as governor for the past 1.5 years by trying to get her ex-brother-in-law fired from a state trooper position and is currently under investigation because of it. While Obama has inspired and mobilized millions of people here and around the world, she is the governor of a state with less than 700,000 people (about the same number as Fort Worth, Texas) who has no foreign policy experience and is on a ticket with a man who expiration date is coming up fast.

Obama has surrounded himself in his campaign with world-class people (with whom, again, I disagree on almost every issue); and though I am doubtless an elitist and snob for saying so, I doubt that she has even met a half-dozen world-class people in her lifetime.

While Obama might do a hundred things as President that I believe are bad for the country, I am confident that he would surround himself with experienced, informed, competent advisors and that he would make no world-destroying blunders. I cannot say the same about Palin and, in view of what this choice reveals about McCain’s character and judgment, I cannot say the same of him either.


The Palin pick says much more about McCain than it does about Palin (all it says about her is that she didn't have the good sense to turn it down). What it says about McCain is that he is more interested in politics than policy, more interested in campaigning than governing, tactical when he should be strategic, and reckless when he should be considered.

He is as big a gamble as president as Palin is as vice-president. This decision was about gut, about politics, about cynicism, and about vanity. It's Bushism metastasized.

____________________

thoughtful:

Its a big ask, I think she will do well, no gaffs. I think she will get maybe 25 million max. going fishin

____________________

Brutus1_:

Ironically, by picking a woman to be on his ticket, Mccain reinforces his misogynistic qualities. She is obviously not qualified and was only picked because of her gender. So Mccain's opinion of women voters (and especially women Hillary voters) is that "see, here is a woman, vote for me now, you brain dead fools". Never mind that Palin is socially right wing, including anti-abortion on all counts. Does McCain really think that women are that stupid?? Apparently so.

Taking this into account with his numerous "jokes" he has made about rape, lesbians, Chelsea Clinton, and wife-beating, and couple that with his numerous adulterous affairs and how he treats his current wife, and you get a particularly harsh insight into the soul of this man. He hates women. Period.

I'm still wondering why a "firm handshake" would require a cast like the one Cindy is sporting right now.

This guy is scary - and just plain unstable.

____________________

KipTin:

Why does Obamanation have NO humor?

"Nowhere Alaska 99901" is funny AND clever.

____________________

Brutus1_:

What an embarrassment.

This year, we witnessed history. A woman ran for president and received 18 million votes from a citizenry that made clear it is indeed ready to consider serious women candidates seriously.

And you, Governor Palin, are making a mockery of that message.

As has been noted by many -- from activists to members of Congress -- you, Governor Palin, are no Hillary Clinton.

But, worse than that, you are a disgrace to the culmination of 200 years of women's struggle that Hillary Clinton represents.

You did not work at the Children's Defense Fund, fighting to secure rights for children.

Instead, you used your line-item veto to strike funding for programs that assist teenage mothers.

You did not revamp the education system of an entire state -- though you are governor of a state in which the illiteracy rate is astronomically high.

Instead, your claim to reformer fame is your activities at the PTA.

You have not traveled overseas to speak in dozens of countries about the rights of women.

You did not stand on a stage among half a dozen men and make the case to the America people for why you are qualified to lead this nation.

You did not receive 18 million votes of confidence. In fact, you were nearly recalled as mayor of your tiny Alaskan town.

You have not stood up for reproductive freedom or even reproductive education.

Instead, you have championed ignorance.

And the proof of your failure lives under your very own roof.

You have agreed to accept a nomination for which you are wholly, indisputably unqualified. And in so doing, you have allowed yourself to become the punchline to a very bad joke.

Except that this isn't a joke, Governor Palin. This is our country's future. And while we have certainly found amusement in the disaster that appears to have been your "vetting process," it's really not funny.

The American people continue to learn new and alarming facts about you, but you already knew these facts when you accepted this position:

• You already knew that you were under investigation for ethical violations.

• You already knew that you turned your town's budget surplus into a deficit before you moved on.

• You already knew of your close involvement with indicted Senator Ted Stevens.

• You already knew the carwash business of which you and your husband were part owners was shut down by the government for failure to comply with regulations.

• You already knew that your husband was a member of a radical political party that advocates secession from the United States.

• You already knew that your teenage daughter was pregnant.

And you damn well know, Governor Palin, that as governor, you have not made any decisions whatsoever regarding the overseas deployment and activities of the Alaska National Guard.

And you damn well know, Governor Palin, that despite your geographical proximity to Russia, you have never been involved in foreign relations with Russia.

You know that, Governor Palin.

And you damn well know that despite your cynical attempt to link your name to the success of Hillary Clinton, you also said that you would not vote for her.

The fight for women's equality is a long and continuous struggle. And you, Governor Palin, are clearly on the wrong side of history. While we fight to prove that we deserve to be taken seriously, your willingness to be on this presidential ticket at this time makes a mockery of that struggle.

And now, although you chastised Hillary Clinton for "whining" about unfair and sexist treatment by the media, because Senator McCain's campaign -- your campaign -- cannot answer the myriad legitimate questions surrounding your vetting process and qualifications, it has instead accused the media, the Democrats, and Obama's campaign of sexism.

And you damn well know, Governor Palin, that just isn't true.

Your own party adamantly opposes affirmative action, and yet, tonight you will stand on a stage and accept the nomination for vice president of your party, a nomination for which you are unprepared and unqualified and which you did not earn and do not deserve.

This is not why Hillary Clinton ran for president, and it is certainly not why 18 million of us voted for her. We were not drawn to her because she won a beauty pageant; we were drawn to her because we believed that decades of work and service and education gave her the wisdom and experience to be able to lead our country out of its current darkness.

That, Governor Palin, was why we stood with Hillary Clinton.

Your candidacy makes a mockery of Hillary Clinton's campaign. It makes a mockery of those who supported her. It makes a mockery of decades and centuries of women who were beaten and jailed, who fought with all their might for a day when there would be no more glass ceilings.

You, Governor Palin, are not a continuation of that legacy. You are an insult to that legacy.

Shame on you, Governor Palin. Shame on you.

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Nice cut-n-pasting Brute. Now do some thinking of your own.

____________________

Brutus1_:

kiptin,

Oh Obama supporters are laughing all right.....all the way to the White House.

____________________

Brutus1_:

You want to talk QUALIFICATIONS???

1980 - 1984

Obama: B.A. in political science with a specialization in international relations from Columbia University.

Palin: Wasilla High School, captain of the state-champion basketball team. Miss Wasilla, runner-up in the Miss Alaska pageant, also Miss Congeniality, although that is now disputed.

Him: Ivy League degree.
Her: Tiara.

1985 - 1990

Obama: moved to Chicago; became a community organizer as director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization on Chicago's far South Side. During his three years as the DCP's director, its staff grew from 1 to 13 and its annual budget grew from $70,000 to $400,000, with accomplishments including helping set up a job training program, a college preparatory tutoring program, and a tenants' rights organization.

Moved to Boston to attend Harvard Law School. Selected as an editor and then elected president of the Harvard Law Review, a full-time volunteer position functioning as editor-in-chief and supervising the law review's staff of 80 editors.

Palin: Bachelor of Science degree in communications-journalism, with a minor in political science from the University of Idaho. Brief stint as a sports reporter for local Anchorage television stations; left to join her husband in commercial fishing.

Him: Sterling legal education.
Her: Sportscaster.


1991 - 1995

Obama: Graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard Law School; received contract and advance to write a book ("Dreams from my Father") as well as a fellowship at the University of Chicago Law School. Directed the Illinois Project Vote from April to October 1992, a voter registration drive with a staff of 10 and 700 volunteers that achieved its goal of registering 150,000 of 400,000 unregistered African Americans in the state, leading Crain's Chicago Business to name Obama to its 1993 list of "40 under Forty" powers to be. Appointed as a Lecturer in constitutional law at the University of Chicago. Joined Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland, a 12-attorney law firm specializing in civil rights litigation and neighborhood economic development. Active in several community organizations, usually as a board member.

Palin: member of the Alasaka Independence Party which advocates "Alaska First". Elected to Wasilla city council.

Him: Expert on our nation's fundamental legal principles.

Her: Plotted to leave the Union; thinks Pledge of Allegiance was written by our founding fathers, doesn't know what a Vice President does.

1996 - 2000

Obama: Promoted to Senior Lecturer in Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago Law School. Elected to the Illinois Senate. Sponsored more than 800 bills. In 2000, lost a Democratic primary run for the U.S. House of Representatives to four-term incumbent Bobby Rush by a margin of two to one.

Palin: elected as mayor of Wasilla (population 5,470), defeating the incumbent by a total of 616 votes to 413. Town budget, $8 million (3 millionths of the Federal budget), approximately 100 employees. Reduced property taxes but increased sales taxes. Fired the Wasilla police chief, citing a failure to support her administration. (He then sued Palin on the grounds that he was fired because he supported the campaign of Palin's opponent, but his suit was dismissed when the judge ruled that Palin had the right under state law to fire city employees, even for political reasons.) Hired a DC lobbyist to bring $27 million in earmarks to the city. Wasilla had zero debt when she entered office but she left it with indebtedness of over $22 million, including $15 million-plus for construction of a hockey center which was built on a piece of property that the city didn’t even have clear title to, a matter that is still in litigation. Attempted to ban books from the city library.

Him: Sponsored 800 bills.
Her: Swayed 616 voters.


2001 - 2004

Obama: Reelected in 2002 and became chairman of the Illinois Senate's Health and Human Services Committee.

Publicly spoke out against the invasion of Iraq BEFORE the congressional authorization in 2002, and then again before the actual invasion in 2003.

Wrote and delivered the keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention.

November 2004: elected to the US Senate, receiving over 3.5 million votes, more than 70% of total.

Palin: elected president of the Alaska Conference of Mayors. Unsuccessful bid for lieutenant governor, coming in second in a five-way race in the Republican primary, receiving 19,000 votes. Appointed to the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, served as chairman from 2003 to 2004 and also served as Ethics Supervisor. Resigned in protest over the "lack of ethics" of fellow Republican members. Exposed the state Republican Party's chairman, Randy Ruedrich, for doing party work on public time and working closely with a company he was supposed to be regulating. Director of Ted Stevens' 527 group.

Him: Demonstrated the wisdom to oppose the Iraq folly before it even began.

Her: Hasn't "really thought much about Iraq" - despite the fact that 17 Alaskans have died there

2005 to present

Obama: Sworn in as the fifth-ever African-American U.S. senator. Worked with Republican Senator Lugar to author and implement a program to locate and dismantle stray Russian WMD's. Designated by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid as the party's point man on ethics. Worked with Russ Feingold to pass a major ethics/lobbying reform bill. Cosponsored, with John McCain, the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act. Called for increased fuel efficiency standards (3 percent every year for 15 years). Assignments on the Senate Committees for Foreign Relations, Veterans' Affairs, and Homeland Security. Chairman of the Senate's subcommittee on European Affairs. As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia and Africa. Waged a tremendous battle to become the Democratic presidential nominee. Currently manages 2,500 campaign employees and a budget of $40-$50 million/month.

Palin: 2005: Board member, Valley Hospital Association, which runs the Mat-Su Regional Medical Center in Wasilla.

Became youngest and first female Governor of Alaska, taking office in December, 2006. Received 114,600 votes. The population of Alaska is 683,478 and more than 50% of the state budget comes from oil revenues, not taxes as in other states. Gross State Product: $44 billion (including the oil revenue). Ranking 45 of 50.
Auctioned off the Governor's jet on eBay. Took on fellow-Republican Senator Ted Stevens to come clean about the federal investigation into his financial dealings. Promoted oil and natural gas resource development in Alaska. Helped pass a tax increase on oil company profits. Formed a sub-cabinet group of advisers to address climate change but does not accept that it is man-made. Objected to listing polar bears as an endangered species because it might hurt oil and gas development in the bears' habitat. Was for the bridge to nowhere before she was against it. However, Alaska kept the federal money. Denied her daughter was pregnant before she confirmed it. Supported abstinence-only education. Currently under a bipartisan investigation for abuse of power for dismissing Alaska's Public Safety Commissioner. Commander-in-Chief of the Alaska National Guard, but has played no role in national defense activities, even when they involve the Alaska National Guard. (The entire operation is under federal control, and the governor is not briefed on situations.)

Obtained her first passport in 2007 to perform visits to the Alaska National Guard in Kuwait and Germany. (Foreign experience so limited that a stopover in Ireland listed on her resume.)

Him: Impressive figure on the national stage who knows how Congress works and is engaged with foreign policy issues.

Her: small state governor for 21 months; "next to Russia", but that is just 1 of the 190 countries in the world she has never been to.


Conclusion: the word "executive" is not some kind of magic force multiplier when placed in front of the word "experience". Especially when that "executive experience" is of less than 700,000 people, the approximate size of Fort Worth, Texas.

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

You voted republican? Libs always expose themselves by their gloom and doom view of the world around them. You're not fooling anyone.

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Qualifications based on size of state population? That really hurts.

Alaska #47
Delaware #45


____________________

Stillow:

@NeverMetAnHonestLib

Most of the smart libs have already dropped that argument...sinc eit was a loser to start with.

____________________

Brutus1_:

As photographic evidence confirms, there were more empty seats even in prime-time than there are at the end of a Dodger game. At the Democratic Convention, if you didn't take root two hours before anything important, the fire marshal wouldn't let you in. Here, you walk right up and find a nice bar stool and table looking directly at the stage. A sign of flagging enthusiasm? Was everyone just at the Ron Paul rally? Who knows!

____________________

Brutus1_:

Do you still have any doubt that McCain/Palin = more of the same?

Just as George W. Bush fired U.S. Attorneys who wouldn't do his bidding in carrying out his personal crusades, so it turns out McCain's VP pick has fired Alaska state employees for not doing hers.

Now finding herself under investigation by the Alaska State Senate, Palin's not just lawyered up, but already refining her Bush-Cheney stonewalling chops:

The state has hired a private lawyer to represent Gov. Sarah Palin's office in the Legislature's investigation into the firing of former Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan. The lawyer already has challenged whether lawmakers even have authority to oversee the inquiry.

Palin has so far ducked interview requests from the investigators, and Alaska state legislators are already talking subpoenas.

Yeah, subpoenas. Sound familiar?
How about this?

E-mails from the Palin administration are being withheld from the public and the governor is citing executive privilege.

OoOoOoOohh! What a "reformer!" What a "maverick!"

And just what kind of "executive privilege" are we talking about? Apparently these super-privileged e-mails are all cc-ed to... Palin's husband.

Well, knock me down with a feather.

Part Jerry Springer Show, part Groundhog Day.

Not just more of the same, but more of the Worst. Presidency. Ever.

And it's neither a surprise nor a coincidence. This is actually how Republicans think government is supposed to work.

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Libs always resort to quoting their heroes at the NY Times, Washington Post, and even worse, left-wing extremist blogs. They have no original thoughts. Plagiarists by nature. And they think Christians are mind-numbed robots?

Libs are unable to conduct civil discourse. Their like crazies with road rage that run people off the road because their traveling the speed limit. Just look at the hostility in this forum. Do the obvious conservatives sound hostile?

____________________

Brutus1_:

The Troopergate investigation already has McCain's handpicked second trying out her executive privilege chops.

But it turns out she's stolen even more of the Bush-Cheney playbook than just that:

'October Surprise' Over Palin Investigation?
"Likely Damaging" Report on Governor Scheduled for Release Days Before November Election

By BRIAN ROSS and LEN TEPPER

Sept. 2, 2008—

Is the McCain campaign afraid of an 'October surprise' involving vice-presidential pick Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska?

The Alaska state senator running an investigation of Gov. Palin says the McCain campaign is using stall tactics to prevent him from releasing his final report by Oct. 31, four days before the November election.


Trying to lawyer their way into running out the clock. Sound familiar?

Hanging on by the skin of their teeth, begging, borrowing and stealing their way into delaying a critical report of Republican wrongdoing until it's too late and the election is over. Sound familiar?

Again, not a coincidence. It's the way Republicans think government ought to work.

Not just more of the same, though. More of the worst thing about the Worst. President. Ever.

There are no Republican "reformers." Just different flavors of crooks. This one just happens to be salmon jerky.

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Forums like this could be an opportunity to dialogue over ideas. I would like to see a stop to cutting and pasting useless BS from other sites.

____________________

Brutus1_:

1) You clowns have no ideas. That is why a black guy with "no experience" is handing you your collective asses.

2) Speaking of "running people off the road",

The Washington Independent reported on Monday that another Sarah Palin firing scandal had been overlooked:

Early in her tenure as mayor, the city council threatened to recall her over accusations that she fired the city's police chief, Irl Stambaugh, and the library director, Mary Ellen Emmons, without warning. She accused them in a letter saying: "I do not feel I have your full support in my efforts to govern the city of Wasilla. Therefore I intend to terminate your employment ..." (The Anchorage Daily News, via nexis)

Ultimately, Palin let the library director have her job back; though Stambaugh's position was not returned. The police chief took the matter to court, where a judge sided with Palin, saying city law allows the mayor to fire the police chief without cause.


ABC News today gives more information on this scandal. The police chief says he was fired because her campaign contributors, including bars and the NRA, didn't like his work:

After taking over as Mayor of the small town of Wasilla, Palin fired the longtime local police chief. The former police chief, Irl Stambaugh says he was fired because he stepped on the toes of Palin's campaign contributors, including bar owners and the National Rifle Association.

Stambaugh's lawyer, William Jermain, says the chief tried to move up the closing hours of local bars from 5 a.m. to two a.m. after a spurt of drunk driving accidents and arrests.

"His crackdown on that practice by the bars was not appreciated by her and that was one reason she terminated Irl," said Jermain.

____________________

Stillow:

@NeverMetAnHonestLib

You forget, the reason liberals have no ideas of their own is because there very ideaology doesn't allow for it. It allows only for the g'ment to make your decisions for you. At the core of liberalism is the willing forfeit of personal freedoms and choice in exhcnage for obedience to the g'ment.Liberalism calls for a small group of elitists in the g'ment to provide everything to everyone and the only requirement it has is to be obedient to the wishes of that g'ment.

____________________

Brutus1_:

stillow the creationist is BACK! Have fun riding your pet dinosaur around town?


____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

I just ran Brut's diatribes through turnitin.com. I'm afaid I'll have to give him/her an F and recommend for suspension.

____________________

Brutus1_:

oooooo, me so scared of the retarded chimp!!!


____________________

Stillow:

@NeverMetAnHonestLib

The hostile factor comes into play because liberals truly believe they are so educated, so enlightened that it is beneath them to even hav eto debate issues with opposing viewpoints. Liberals have no room for true diversity of ideas, it contradicts the ability of the g'ment to control their lives. Liberals do not want to be burdened by the labors of life, they wish to push those burdens to g'ment to handle. So the anger is an instinctive response to the fact they even have to debate the issues. Providing everything to everyone is the end goal for them....in exchange for control over your life. Do this or you won't get this service you have become dependent on. Its a reason liberals always lose national elections....however it is gaining strength...because the # of people who want to be taken care of is starting to outnumber the # of people who want to take care of themselves....

____________________

Brutus1_:

Michael Moore Responds to Joe Lieberman -

by Michael Moore

Wed Sep 03, 2008

(Last night, during his primetime speech from the podium at the Republican National Convention, Senator Joe Lieberman made the following statement: "... if John McCain is just another partisan Republican, then I'm Michael Moore's favorite Democrat. And I'm not. And I think you know that I'm not.")

Dear Joe:

John McCain IS just another partisan Republican -- so that must mean you ARE my favorite Democrat!

But how can you be my favorite Democrat when you are no longer a Democrat? This is very confusing. I was in the middle of taking out the garbage and, all of a sudden, there you were, trash-talking me in front of thousands of cheering (mostly) white people on TV.

What is it with you and your Republican friends always bringing me up? Can't you stop thinking about me? It's starting to sound like a fetish! Stop it! Four years ago at the last Republican Convention, John McCain, in his convention speech, also trashed me, calling me a "disingenuous filmmaker" because I called all of you out in "Fahrenheit 9/11." The crowd at Madison Square Garden went berserk. McCain didn't know I was sitting above him in the press box, and the crowd wouldn't stop screaming at me, so I flashed them the "Big L" loser sign and, well, nine of New York's finest had to help me get out of there alive.

With all the problems facing the world, why is valuable time being wasted reviewing a movie and attacking a filmmaker? And now you, Joe, tonight. Do you think you're energizing the "base" by attacking me? Better take a look at the scoreboard. While your side has spent years trying to make me the boogeyman, let's see how it's worked:

** 2006 Congressional elections: Republicans lose 30 seats in the House and 6 seats in the Senate;

** States That Have Lost a Republican Governor (and elected a Democrat) since 2002: Kansas, Montana, Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Arkansas, Kentucky, Oklahoma and Tennessee -- EACH ONE OF THEM A RED STATE!;

** Latest Gallup Poll: Obama hit 50% yesterday for the first time for either candidate, 8 points ahead of McCain!

Do you see the trend?

Putting me in your convention speeches, attacking me nonstop on talk radio and Fox News -- and thinking that this helps you -- shows just how out of touch you all are.

Two-thirds of the country agree with my position on the war, two-thirds of the country agree with my position on a single-payer universal health care system, two-thirds believe in some form of gun control -- name the documentary, pick the issue, and the American public agrees with Michael Moore. So get over me, will ya? You're only hurting yourself. And I've got to finish taking out the garbage.

"... if John McCain is just another partisan Republican, then I'm Michael Moore's favorite Democrat. And I'm not. And I think you know that I'm not."

Now click your heels together and say, "There's no place like home on the Republican minority side of the aisle."

Yours,
Michael Moore

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Stillow the creationist? Is that supposed to be a cut of some sort? That's the equivalent of Brutus the blogger. Ouch.

____________________

Stillow:

@NeverMetAnHonestLib

You're making a mistake responding to him...it only serves his need for attention. You'll notice most of us, including most of the genuine libs on here ignore him.. You can see by his posts he's an addict of the left and makes stuff up as he goes....you would dobest to ignore him and eventually they go away if no one gives them attention.
Liberals also usually resort to namecalling as a debate tactic for what are otherwise weak arguments. There are good libs here who debate issues, but some are you cookie cutter kool aid drinkers.

____________________

Brutus1_:

Silly creationists - lies are for fools.

____________________

Brutus1_:

The Left-wing attack dogs have indeed gone after Sarah Palin with a despicable indifference to truth or decency. But this, frankly, is part of the great gamble that John McCain took in choosing a 44-year-old female governor with little-to-no experience on the world stage as his vice presidential pick. The “vetting” issue is relevant, but not in the way most media outlets are suggesting. It’s not that the McCain’s campaign failed to vet Palin; it’s that she’s now being vetted for the first time by the media–with a mere two months to go before election night.

If you think all this stuff wasn't going to come out at some point in the age of Google, you have to be ... unaware of the Internet?

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Excellent comments stillow. Amazing what can come from an intelligent mind--and his/her own mind at that.

____________________

Brutus1_:

Yeah, great BS , you "smart" creationist! ROTFLMAO!!


____________________

Brutus1_:

STALLING THE TROOPERGATE INVESTIGATION?

September 03, 2008

by Mark Murray

From NBC's Aram Roston

ANCHORAGE, AK -- A key witness in the Alaska State Senate Ethics investigation of Gov. Palin has backed out of testifying today, the state senator in charge of the investigation tells NBC News. The senator -- Democrat Hollis French -- says Frank Bailey's decision not to testify will slow down the "Troopergate" investigation into the current candidate.

The investigation centers on whether Gov. Palin abused her power when firing her commissioner of Public Safety Walt Monegan in July 2008. Monegan maintains he was fired, for not firing another man in his command -- Alaska State Trooper Mike Wooten -- Gov. Palin's ex-brother in law who, years earlier, went through a messy divorce with her sister.

Frank Bailey, a member of Palin's administration, was caught on tape in August 2008 on a phone call with another trooper in which he questioned why Wooten was still on staff, seemingly speaking on behalf of Palin. The release of this tape proved embarrassing for Palin, who was forced to backtrack on her earlier statements, in which she had maintained neither she, nor her family, nor staff, ever pressured Monegan or anyone else to fire Wooten.

Bailey was put on paid leave from the administration following the release of that tape.

Since becoming the VP nominee, Palin has challenged jurisdiction of the ethics investigation. Bailey cites that jurisdictional uncertainty as his reason for not testifying.

State Sen. French says no one in the investigation, including Bailey and Gov. Palin, was subpoenaed to testify because all had previously agreed to cooperate voluntarily.

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

I just took a poll in the bar and Sam Adams' Octoberfest is beating our Summer Ale for best seasonal beer. I think I'll have a pint before I head home to watch the RNC. I wish you folks could join me.

____________________



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