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SC-02: Rep. Wilson (PPP 9/10-11)


Public Policy Polling (D)
9/10-11/09; 747 likely voters, 3.6% margin of error
Mode: IVR
(PPP release)

South Carolina 2nd Congressional District

Rep. Joe Wilson Job Approval
41% Approve, 47% Disapprove

2010 House
Rob Miller (D) 44%, Wilson 43%

Do you approve or disapprove of Joe Wilson's actions at Barack Obama's speech to Congress on Wednesday night?
29% Approve, 62% Disapprove

Does Joe Wilson calling the president a liar make you more or less likely to vote to re-elect
him?

35% More likely, 49% Less likely, 16% No difference

Do you think that Barack Obama was lying when he said his health care plan would not cover illegal immigrants?
42% Yes, 46% No

 

Comments
Andrew Therriault:

The 29% approve / 35% more likely numbers are pretty strange at first glance--one would think that everyone in the latter category would have approved, and that the approval number should have been the larger one (because it's possible to approve but have it make no difference)

But I think it's the product of a poor survey design--the approval question fails to state what Wilson did at the speech, and the voting question fails to specify the context of Wilson calling Obama a liar. So it's possible that some people didn't know about Wilson's actions or make the connection between the two questions, which would lead to strange results such as this.

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ThatMarvelousApe:

Spin, spin, spin.

Everyone but hardcore Republicans think Wilson acted like a total boor. Many disapprove of his childish behavior even if they agree with him. In such a conservative district, his numbers on those initial questions would be way higher if your hypothesis were true.

The reality is that people don't want to be represented by someone who acts like they have Tourette's Syndrome.

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Mark in LA:

Miller has received $350,000 for each of the two words shouted by Joe Wilson during Obama's speech. Talk about filling a war chest in a hurry!

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Aaron_in_TX:

Wilson's district is quite conservative, but not overwhelmingly so. This poll seems to indicate that he would be in a close race, but after time this will fade. I'd place my money on Wilson for re-election.

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Stillow:

Are we seriously polling some crazy congressmen no one ever heard of before he called Obama a liar? What stood out to me is that 42 percent agree with Wilson that Obama was lying.....I am in that camp, but you don't call names in a speech like that. Ya gotta keep your emotions in check.

This is PPP, where is the birther question?

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BarackO'Clinton:

Regarding the joint session, to quote my dad, a staunch conversative Republican who hated Sarah Palin so much that he held his nose and voted for Obama...."The Republicans looked like a bunch of alcoholics."

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Stephen_W:

I agree with Andrew, poor survey design. Leaves more questions than answers.

"This is PPP, where is the birther question?" Already been asked last month, we already know less than half of all Southerner believe Obama was born in the US. It's like global warming, if you don't believe it exists, it's a lot easier to oppose it.

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Stillow:

@Stephen_W:

Hmmm, what about crazies conservatives like me who don't beleive in man made global warming, but do beleive Obama was born in the US?

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Stephen_W:

You can believe in whatever you want to believe in, that's what makes America so great. Doesn't make it right, but nobody is stopping you from believing it and trying to convince anyone gullable enough to believe it too. But to make it a political platform is just sad, that's all.

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Stillow:

@Stephen_W:

Likewise!

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lat:

Joe Wilson sybolizes what I have been posting about over the past 2 days. In addition to being the party of evangelical nuts The GOP has become a party of angry southern white men. You can deny this all you want, but who the heck do you think Glen Beck is talking to when he says Obama is an "angry black guy"? Harvard graduates on the Upper West Side of Manhattan? I think not. The GOP needs to solve this problem and quickly or risk irrelevance for many years to come. Case in point if I told you 25 years ago that the first Democrat to win Greenwich, CT (arguably the wealthiest town in the US) since LBJ was going to be a black man from Chicago you would have looked at me like I had 3 heads. Well, that is exactly what happened (Obama won there by almost 12 points if memory serves). These are highly educated affluent people who frankly don't give a damn about 39.6 % vs. 35% as the top tax rate (these people are multi-millionares it's not changing their life), but they care very much about lunatics like Sarah Palin and morons like Joe The Plumber representing the GOP. The Republicans used to own towns like this and democrats never even bothered to compete there, but now that has all changed.

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Stillow:

@lat
You are a racist bigot.

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Stillow:

I just want to make sure I got this right. Wilson yelling out liar is bad, but Dems booing Bush at a speech to a joint session was a wonderful expression of democracy?

I find it so laughable you Dems are playing the holier than thou card....talking about civility? Are you serious? For 8 years I had to sit thru Bush is a liar, Bush is a war criminal, Bush planned 9/11...I had to see books published on how great it would be to assassinate him...I had to see people throwing eggs at his car during his inaugeration. I had to see libs go camp outside his house for weeks calling him a murderer.

You Dems lived in a pool of vitriol the past 8 years saying some of the most disgusting things possible, making every accusation you could think of until they started to stick. I had to sit thru a major news network, CBS, put out forged documents trying to shame Bush's national guard status. I had to watch Dems say Bush doesn't care about people, only money.

You Dems really are soemthing else. Obama gets a little heat and you cry foul....after the crap you pulled for 8 years? After some of the stuff the left did and said, you actually have the nerve to bitch and moan now?

You guys really are soemthing else....you dish out the worst kind of garbage, you try to destory people on perosnal levels and Obama takes a little heat and you talk about civility?

Absolutely unbeleivable..........as my dad would say, you dems really think your sh*t don't stink..............don't throw rocks in a glass house....because this holier than thou crap makes you guys look beyond stupid.

Lets write a book on assasinating Bush, but whatever you do, don't challenge Obama on health care............................

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lat:

Stillow,

What can I tell you? The truth hurts. Are you honestly going to say with a straight face that The GOP for years did not play to the fears of white suburbanites? Let's see Nixon with his "southern" strategy, Reagan with his "states rights" campaign, Bush 41 with Willie Horton, etc. The GOP won 5 out of 6 elections playing off of this and now that it doesn't work anymore you call me a racist. Your party is pathetic in addition to being bankrupt of any ideas. Here is the GOP platform- The government is evil, nobody should pay taxes, and wouldn't it be great if we had Ronald Reagan back? Oh and let's not forget that only Republicans have morals and only they represent God. Like I said the truth hurts.

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Stephen_W:

Stillow, Dems booed in the Chamber, just as Republicans booed in the Chamber on Wed. I don't necessarily like it, just like I don't like when half the Republicans were holding up signs or tapping away on their blackberry during the speech. It's rude, but it happens. What is not usual is for someone to literally call out the President and stop him in mid-speech like that. If something like that happened during Bush's term, you best believe he would have been censured in a heartbeat. And he'd probably have deserved it.

As for how we treated Bush, he had all of our support after 9/11 and in our war against Afghanistan. Where we deviated was when he took us into war with Iraq based on bogus intelligence, used terror threat levels to scare the nation into obedience, allowed CIA to pursue torture as an intelligence policy, bungled Katrina, the Iraq occupation, and the housing bubble, politicized the US Attorney's office, and took a budget surplus and turned it into long-term massive deficits that we're still paying for.

Obama has been in office for less than a year, and is dealing with the worst financial crisis since WWII, a failing healthcare system, and two wars. None of which were his fault. And what he's gotten in return for trying to fix it is accusations that he's not a US citizen, is a communist/socialist/fascist that hates the country, wants to create death panels to kill off old people, and is a racist. Most of our problems with Bush were actual problems, most of your problems with Obama are not even based in reality. That's the difference.

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Wong:

One of the unique aspects of our political system is that head of state and head of government are combined in the office of president. The House of Commons is a political, no holds-barred. free for all. When the Queen enters the room everyone shuts up and bows because she is England and in her role as head of state she represents the oneness and dignity of it's people. Our presidents are both partisan in-fighters in their roles as head of government and representative of us all in their roles as head of state.

That is why, I believe, we all wince when we hear our President called a liar in a setting where protocol creates an image of head of state.

I gotta tell you, though I have no love for Bush, I winced when he was booed throwing out the first pitch at the Washington Nationals game last year(maybe the year before). That crap grates me the wrong way.

There is a lesson there somewhere

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Stillow:

@Stephen_W:

You totally dismissed everything I said when I pointed out books about his assasination, calling him a murderer, blah blah.....I didn't see some big outcry from you lefties when the far left is out there wanting Bush killed....

Everything you mentioned are all poltical points which half the country disagrees with, let me go one by one just for fun. But my point was you call the GOp names now for not agreeing with Obama....the GOp isn't out asking for obama's death....code pink isn't out there handcuffed to the WH gates with blood painted on them....

He took us to war with iraq with the approval of congress and many many Dems....Bush didn't make u pthe intelligence, Clinton, both Bill and Hillary, John Kerry, tony blair, british intelligence and every other source said Iraq had WMD....after 9/11 there was a rationel for going to war with Iraq to stop soemthing before it happened. I didn't agree with it, and at the time I was in the minotiry, because both parties wanted to go in. You cannot blame Bush entirely for acting on intelligence everyone agreed was accruate.

Tom Ridge said Bush never ha dhim use the terror alert system for anything other than legit terror threats....that is nothing but a left wing talking point that has no proof to back it up. So that is simply your beleif he abused it....

Half this country doesn't cosnider waht the cia did as torture including myself....its your opinion it was torture, both sides have a legit case to make on this which is why the countyr is divide dpretty evenly on this.

the state of LA bungled katrina, no one from the bottom up did a good job....to blame all bush is stupid...the mayor,the governor at the time everyone dropped the ball. LA had forever and a half to improve its levy system, it snot bush's fault it was not done properly.

heh, we are not occupying iraq...thats just sutpid.

The housing bubble has equal blame to go around. Many of us actually put more blame on the Dems thru the community reinvestment act which forced freddie and fannie to purchase subprime loans which encourages banks to sell subprimes. Bush tried twice to put measures in place to stop that and both times it was defeated in congress. This housing bubble was the result of to much g'ment involvement...had freddie and fannie not been ordered to purchase these loans, banks would not have made them cus they would have no buyers for them....not bush's fault.

us attorneys serve at the will of the president, they can be fired for any reason...all presidents hire an dfire attorneys they want to.

the surplus he inherited is a joke. he came into office right when a recession hit, followed 9 months by the 9/11 terror attacks....so the receession combined with the terror attacks put a real strain on our economy. I was opposed to the war and I will agree the war spending in iraq was bad idea....so yes again he takes partial blame, but put it into the context he deserves with dealing withthe tech bubble collapse clinton handed him and 9/11.

It is not the worst financial crisis since WW2...it is the worst since the Carter recession where we had higher unemployemnt, insane intrest rates and out of control inflation.

health care is not a failing system when polls show about 80 percent of Americans are happy with there coverage....Show me something else that gets that high an approval rating....it needs reform, not overhaul....difference of opinion.

By definition when the state takes over private business and runs it, it is socialism....auto, ifnancial, trying for health care....i can think of no other word than socialism...

So you see our problems with obama to us are actual issues, just as to you yours with bush were actual issues.

Does that justify the left writing books on killing bush? camping outside his house and callhim a murderer? Egging his car during his inaugeration?

My point is, both sides engage in dirty politics, both sides throw bombs, but you guys lcaim this innocence that is not true....you hated Bush, almost to the point of being unhealthy. I disagree with obama on ideaology just as you did bush. Bush inherieted some messes to from clinton, the stock market collapse, wall street scandals like world com and enron...a weakend intelligence system, etc....

My whole point is to stop whining, i dont mind you think the way you do, but don't moan when the right goes after obama for what half this country feel are legit reasons. the birthers, the truthers, whats the difference? hell obama's jobs czar just had to quit cus he was a 9/11 truther..............

Stop the whining, defend your guys positions without the whining...that is what my kids do when they don't get ice cream. Defend your positions with at least reason, I may not agree with it, but I will respect it. There are two sides to every coin....the best solutions are never fro mthe far right or the far left, its in between.

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Stillow:

@Wong

again, I agree wilson was wrong....though myself and a whole lot of other people do beleive obama was lying or at best being misleading, in that setting you don't yell out. I felt the same way when bush was boo'd....i just dont recall this fake outrage from the left when that happened. Intelectual honesty is lacking from the Dems right now....they are balming the GOP for things they themselves are masters at.

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Aaron_in_TX:

The only part I feel might be "lying," is the part about the bill being deficit neutral. The White House's figures don't count about $250 billion that the CBO did. That's why it's 1.3 trillion vs. 900 billion. Technically, that's not a bald- faced lie, just a different way of accounting. The White House assumes that there will be some savings in the long run, the CBO doesn't.

The part about illegal immigrants was NOT A LIE! Have you not watched ANY news program that put up the sections of the bill that explicitly state federal subsidies are not available to people not legally present in the U.S.? They will be able to purchase coverage. However, I recently bought new health insurance. Not once did they ask me to prove citizenship. So nothing much is changing there. Wilson was upset because he wanted to insert provisions that would have changed previous laws dealing with illegals and health care.

You're also forgetting, Stillow, that Bill Clinton also got hissed and booed. It happened to Obama in his February joint session. No one complained about that. Hissing, booing, and jeering for a short period has become acceptable. Heckling is not.

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Aaron_in_TX:

"the state of LA bungled katrina, no one from the bottom up did a good job....to blame all bush is stupid...the mayor,the governor at the time everyone dropped the ball. LA had forever and a half to improve its levy system, it snot bush's fault it was not done properly."

No one says that LA handled it well, but if they failed, then the federal gov't needed to step in. Bush could have declared emergency and taken control of the LA national guard. You do recall that the day the storm hit, Bush was at a fundraiser in Idaho? You do recall that when the FEMA response was so woefully inadequate, Bush still praised it's director - "Heckuva job, Brownie?." THAT's what people blame him for.

All he needed to do was get on the phone, tell the necessary people that "this is the president of the United States; I want some water delivered to those dehydrating babies in the Superdome!" Instead, he spent a couple days seemingly unaware that New Orleans was in chaos, and people in the shelter were dying from thirst and lack of medical care. Hundreds of people died in that awful place. Granted, he never let that happen again, and paid a good deal of attention to New Orleans after that, but his response to that tragedy was itself tragic, and unforgiveable given how many people could have been saved.

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IdahoMulato:

It's absurd when people compare mangoes to oranges. Short booes are normal in parliamentary but as for heckling the POTUS.... it's unacceptable and stupid. Period!

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ctj:

LAT,

I wouldn't bother trying to reason with Stillow. He actually had the balls in a previous post to suggest that John McCain's postition on torture is wrong. You make some very good points about how the republcian party has used awful tactics in the past (and still does to a lesser degree) to stoke the fears of whites against minorities (although I have to admit you do go a bit over the top). Their new target group is gays, but I think that will be short lived. What this idiot congressman did the other night is just another example of a party with no discipline or direction.

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John:

Actually, members can't call each other liars in the house of commons - it would fall under the category of unparliamentry language and they would be asked to leave.

Wilson could have tried Churchill's 'terminological inexactitude' but that is a bit of a tongue twister for heckling.


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Stillow,

I don't know where to begin with many of the assertions that you've made. It feels like you're willing to justify and excuse anything that took place under the recent Bush administration. Bush got a free pass from the media and the Democrats in my opinion. He should have been called on a lot more things. So what if the Dems booed. "Two wrongs don't make a right." And there's no excuse for anyone of either side of aisle to interrupt the President and call him a liar. Bush was the worst thing that has happened to our country in decades as far as I'm concerned, but when that nut-job threw a shoe at Bush, I was mortified and part of me wanted the Secret Service to violate several of that guy's human rights behind closed doors. Finally, do you truly believe liberals are whining too much? I've heard so much whining from conservatives starting with the Presidential campaign up until now, that I'd thought they'd all reverted to their "Terrible Twos". The world has been so unfair to these (generalization) privileged, wealthy white men. They need to grow a pair, stop having a hissy fit, and act like adults. We need representatives who are capable of having a substantive and civil discussion and work across the aisle for real solutions for the American people.

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lat:

Ctj,

What do you mean over the top? Have you heard some of the recent Nixon tapes released? I will quote "An abortion is ok if you are a jew or a black". When Lee Atwater flashed Willie Horton's face all over the tv in 88 you think it was because they cared so much about crime? Hell no! The GOP has been doing this for years and I have to give them credit because for 20 plus years it worked. The dems also did themselves no favors by running awful campaigns and not fighting back (Michael Dukakis is a great example of this). Now that this garbage doesn't work anymore the republicans find themselves in a very desperate position. When you play off of the politics of fear it can only work for so long. We are a better educated and more sophisticated nation then we were back then and The GOP is finally reaping what they have sewn. Joe Wilson is just a symbol of that.

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notonegativity:

All I've got to say in between all this back and forth is, I trust President Obama a million times more than I would ever trust anything that comes out of a Republicans mouth now. There are extremes on the left and right but even the republicans I thought were reasonable are showing their true colors and I don't like it a bit. It seems like the extreme on the right is the norm nowadays.

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Stillow:

I am assuming you guys are choosing not to get my points, because only a couple of you actually seem incapable.

My whole point is that libs blamed Bush for things that were not his fault or not entirely his fault....why does anyone expect the GOP to treat Obama differently? You guys are attacking the GOP for things they are doing that Dems did times 10 during the Bush years.

As many of you know, I am not a big Bush fan. Didn't vote for him in 2004 as he turned out to be more liberal and favored big g'ment everywhere.

You guys lack the intelectual honesty to have a ral debae. I fully aknowledge that the GOP plays dirty, they throw bombs, they make wild accusations, ie birthers. But I also recognize the left does it as well....

You guys will always be unable to be honest with yourselves and have a real debate because you don't see the flaws in your own party....I see fake outrage about Wilson calling out liar....where was the outrage when Bush was having eggs thrown at him during his inaugheration? Is that the type of civility you Dems think is legit?

If eggs were thrown at Obama I'd be hearing oh those silly right wing racist rednecks, blah blah....since libs like Lat on this board seem to think we conservatives are racist, we hate gays, blah blah, the same old crap the left has been saying for decades.

Until you libs can see inward, make aknowledgements that both parties have an equally dirty playbook then you will forever be stuck in a pool of koolaid....unable to see facts....unable to reason beyond talking points.

I see all the time, I would never trust a republican, the GOP has become extreme, blah blah. Many on my side do have intelectual honesty because we turned our backs on Bush when he turned his back on our ideaology and became a big g'ment big spending fiscal liberal. Hell I voted for Clintion in 1996, though he was sort of forced to do it, he became an advocate of small g'ment, which I like. Part of me regrets that because the stock bubble cost me a lot of money, when the NASDAQ crashed I lost 15% of my portfolio....I also owned stock in the infamous Enron corp....a lack of proper control during the clinton years cost me a lot of money.

You guys slammed Bush for a so called 50+1 strategy....you need to realize that 46% of this country did not vote for Obama. That is tens of million of people, including myself. Winning under 53 percent is not a sweeping mandage for change....it is a small majoirty who elected you because a recession occured right at election time.

Some of you I kno get my points even if you refuse to admit it, the rest of you are lost causes, to busy calling me a racist...or telling me I hate gays, blah blah. There is a rational argument to made for biggeer and smaller g'ment, I make it a point to understand both.....I simply favor the smaller g'ment approach, but I understand the logic behind some of you wanting bigger g'ment.

Look at your own party guys, you are just as guilty of whatever you claim the GOP is doing, politics is a dirty game, it has been for 200 years. This holier than thou stuff makes you guys look, well just foolish.

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lat:

Stillow,

For once you actually said something that I can partially agreee with. Don't get me wrong I love dirty politics in the modern day and was always frustrated that my party never knew how to play it until Bill Clinton came along. I don't begrudge anybody putting on their game face and going into the mud becuase at the end of the day it is about winning. Both sides can claim the high road all they want and I will come right back and say bullshit (just ask Presidents Mondale, Dukakis, and Dole). There have been 4 strategists in the last 25 years that I give lots of credit to Lee Atwater, James Carville, Karl Rove, and David Axelrod. Why? Because they knew how to win period end of story. They were not afraid to go for the juggular and slash and burn when they needed to. My whole point is the GOP's reliance on winning with only white voters will no longer work. Moreover if they continue this insanity with birthers, death panels, etc. You can count on a landslide for the dems in 2012.

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Darrell:

Something else to note in the crosstabs ... 48 percent of respondents consider themselves moderate. That's a big surprise--the conventional wisdom on SC-02 is that this is a rock-ribbed conservative district.

Little history--this district was one of the first areas of South Carolina to go Republican. The district's incumbent Dem backed Goldwater and had his seniority yanked for it in 1965. He resigned shortly afterward, ran for his own vacancy as a Republican and won. That district's been Republican since then.

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