Pollster.com

Uh oh, another infamous CNN poll....CNN should stop polling based o nthere track record and go back to trying to swing public opinion through there "unbias and balanced" news coverage!

What else should be a right? A house, car and job? Some of you just can no longer live without your slave master (g'ment) telling ya what to do and how to think can you?

I guess it makes sense to pay for your health care though, I am already paying for your house, car, credit cards, food and clothing....might as well throw helath insurance in there too I guess.

...and why do I have this funny feeling that the 47% who say go ahead and raise taxes to pay for it are people already not paying any taxes? That's what you get when over half the people pay no taxes.....raise the taxes on thos epaying them...no big deal, it doesn't affect you.

I'm tellin ya liberals out there, your are quickly comign to the day when there will be no one left with any money for you to steal to pay for your perfect utopian paradise....

Progressive taxation is not stealing from one person is giving to the other. It's based on the fact that the rich uses more economic resources, the niceties of life and, therefore, the more you earn the more you pay in percentage terms. Flat taxation is the reverse, taking more from the poor or low income earners progressively.

A progessive system only punishes success. There shoud be a flat tax, everyone pays the same percentage....and only a liberal would assume the "rich" as you call them, I call them the middle class, use more resources.

Food Stamps, free emrgency care, g'ment housing, and a billion ohter entitlements are used by the poor.

So again, the liberal theory of fairness, even though I work harder than you, its my job to pay more. Ya, that is real fair. The deadbeat down the street who is happy living off the system has me paying for all his crap...now even his credit cards, so I just bought his flat screen TV for him and am paying his car and house off too....it seems to me being poor in this country isn't so bad since people like me are paying for eveyrhting you need...and then liberals like you tel lme how fair it is for me to be paying more....so even though I am working for it, just take it....and why stop at health care? I think you shoudl raise my taxes to 90% so I too can be poor then...............ooops, but wait, then people like me might just stop working because the incenstive will be gone, uh oh, down comes the hosue of cards!
Yes it is stealing to take money at a higher percentage than taken from soemone else....You libs have a really funny version of fair.
The middle class who you keep calling rich cannot even qualify for fianncial aid to send there kids to schools....so do not lecture me about progressive tax structure being fair. It is outright theft...and then my money is used to give money back to those who pay no income tax at all throgh the earned income tax credit....so because I went to a good college, because I worked 60 hour work weeks at the start....well that just means I gotta pay more, cus the lazy guy down the street who would rather hang out at the beach all day can come home to his nice g'ment check.....
Yes lets kill hte middle class,lets raise thos etaxes on thse evil rich people, afterall we don't need rich people to invest in business opportunities, or to buy things the rest of uf build and make....lets take it all...lets make everyone exactly equal no matter how hard you worked for what you got....to hell with equal opportunity, we want equal outcome....that will work pefectly...at least until the majoirty figure out someone else will pay there bills...and then ooops, crash. And with no more middle class or rich people to steal from....there goes that liberal paradise you constructed i nthe land of theory!

I'm currently a student & able to work 40 - 60 weekly. As a student, I consider myself a middle class person considering what I make annually. I don't really care being taxed a lil more to help the poor or those who're not as fortunate as me. I give alms & make charitable contributions. However, I still believe in progressive taxation. I studied both economics & taxation at school & I'm convinced taxation is necessary for socio-politico-economic devt that the private sector is not all that interested.

Well being a student explains why you don't get it. Educational theory is fun and all, but thsoe of us who live in the real world are tired of paying for everyoen else's bills. Its not my job paying off your house, your credit cards and your car...nor should I have to put a roof over your head, pay your medical care or buy your food and clothes. There is this thing called work, and when you do it you earn this thing called money.

I promise you the day will come when there's no one left to steal from, because your g'ment your so fond of will have stolen it all.

By the way, since you clearly have a disdain for the rich and middle class, I assume your employed by a poor person? A poor person is paying your salary which allows you to pay for school and living expenses? It is those evil rich people who provide us all with jobs, its those evil rich people who invest in businesses and employ everyone. I realize you've been brainwashed by liberal economics teachers who have taught you that success is wrong and achieving is bad....that acting in self intrest is somehow evil.....but hopefully one day you'll crawl out of that liberal hole.

There are very few in this country who are poor. I served in the military and was stationed in Kuwait during Desert Storm, if you want to see what poor looks like, visit that country...the poor people in this country are fat and have big screen tv's. And perosnally I feel having the g'ment run my life for me is insulting. If everyone pays the same percentage of tax, then succcess can be rewarded, hard work has benefits...there is no mroal justification, no matter what your liberal teachers are telling, to tax someone at a higher rate...maybe that person works twice as hard as someone else....maybe instead of going to parties and hanging out, they worked there butts off and studied to get a good job.....that action should be rewarded, not punished. If you want to provide the maximum prosperity for the maximum number of people, it is done by low taxation, non punitive taxation, less g'ment involvement....all bigger g'ment and higher taxes do is equally disperse misery to everyone. The liberals would rather have everyone poor and needy, than to have most prosperous and the only the lazy poor needy.

Just remember, America was made great on those values, not by taxation and entitlements......

Only so much cookies in the cookie jar, you can't steal my money forever, i am running out.

And there is a growing movement of people like me who are tried of paying everyone elses bills....if you want the tv, buy it yourself, don't go max out your cards and expect me to pay for it, if you bought to much house and weren't smart enough to understand what an ARM is, that is to bad, don't ask me to bail you out. When did doing the right thing deseve punishment and doign the wrong thing deserve reward? I earn what I have....I have seen combat action for my country....I think I have earned the right to enjoy my life and live it how I want to and spend my money the way I want to....and quite frankly, I don't really give a damn about the lazy deadbeat down the street who lives off the system and uses his welfare money to buy his dope and booze.....I really just don't care.

I have to chime in... Do you know who was the proponent of progressive taxation? Adam Smith, the founder of capitialism. It was one of his four tenets of "Tax fairness" as espoused in his Tome, "The Wealth of Nations."

Smith, as you know, was no bleeding heart. He believed in raw, free market capitalism with absolutely no government involvement... but, he believed the rich should pay more in taxes... Why?

'Cos rich folks are the ones who have the money!!!! It's pointless to tax those who don't have cash to pay it. You tax the rich 'cos that's where the money's at.

Taxing the poor and middle class, like Republicans insist on, makes absolutely no sense financially. It's like trying to suck water from a stone... it makes no sense!

"What else should be a right? A house, car and job? Some of you just can no longer live without your slave master (g'ment) telling ya what to do and how to think can you?"

Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness is considered a fundamental right by the noted Republican, Thomas Jefferson.... Can't have life without health care if you are sick... nor can you be happy or pursue such happiness if you are sick all the time... and you'll never be free of medical bills...

As for being the "slaves for government"... Excuse me... but, this is a democracy. The government is a slave to us. We can vote the government out every few years when they fail.... just like we did last November... Better luck next time!

@ Stillow

Your response to Idaho is weak. He says he works 40+ hours a weak and considers himself middle class. Your assertion that he's some kind of parasite who hates the middle class is false and lame. As is your claim that wealth is merely a matter of "working harder". Effort may be correlated with wealth, but things like health, oppourtunity, lucky and natural advantages play a huge role in its accumulation.

The progressive tax rate is a reality, and its been advocated by such conservative icons as Teddy Roosevelt and Adam Smith.

Suppose we were to magically change everything to a flat tax with no friction in the economy. Do you really think that salaries would be uneffected? Do you really think that no economic adjustment to the new tax rate would occour? Basic free market economic theory (which conservatives are supposed to embrace) says that adjustments should be made, either in the amount of salary paid out to labor or in the cost of living.

You guys can us whatever terms you wish or quote whomever you wish to support theft. The bottom line is I am now paying for your house, car, food, clothing and soon medical expenses. I grew up poor as one can be in a small town, joined the army at 18, served my time, used that experience to gain skills, go to school and now I work for a living.
The question liberals always avoid and never answer........"Why is it my job to pay for your life?" What would you guys do if people like me just stopped? Maybe we want to jump aboard the free ride express...then what? Where will you steal your money from then? G'ment has no money of its own, it uses the people's money....it uses the money of people who produce, earn and then are forced to pay punitive taxes....you lcaim the GOP likes taxes on the middle class? the entire GOP is made up of mostly middle class. The uber rich are left wing crazies and the poor are crazies, the GOP is made up of normal middle class people who simply want the g'ment to leave them alone and get off their back.

there is a fundamental prinicple you miss, it is not YOUR money. It is mine, I worked for it, its my sweat that earned it....it is theft for the g'ment to come take and it give to dead beats who live off the system there whole life. Soagain, what will you liberals do when the working people decide they want the free ride too? Libealism is how you collapse a economy and a country...all it does is convince the masses they need g'ment to run their lives and pay for all there stuff.

the pilgrims came to this land hundreds of years ago, when they first settled it was decided that everyone would work and all th food and things people made would go into a central pot which then would be given to hte people...the theory was liberalism, put it all in a single pot then disperse it evenly to everyone, that way everyone had food and trousers to wear......but ooops, eventually a majoiryt figured out that hey, I actually don't need to work and yet I will still get fed and clothed. That systemeventually collapsed because there wasn't enough people willing to work the land land to feed everyone, people got lazy cus they were being rewarded for the lazyness. Eventually they had to change the way they did things and people then started keeping what they farmed and made and engaged in commerce and trade for other things they needed. This allowed everyone to actually work and produce if they wanted to survive and that system has basically been the basis of our entire structue for hundreds of years....now the theory is to go back to the liberal urge to make everyone the same....doesn't matter if you work or not, you will get fed and clothed and taken care of. Doing that will also lead to a collapse, because its only a matter of time before a majoirty realize they do not have to work or do anything and yet the g'ment will still feed them, clothe them, house them and give them medical care. So again, what will you libs do when more people than not do that? When there aren't enough people left working to pay for the dead beats?

Libealism is great, but only in theory, in reality has no sustainable structure....because its flawed at its core, it assumes there is a neverending source of funds to draw from....and as it exapans it shows more and more people they do not ahve to work or earn anything, yet they will still be taken care of.
You can already see the early signs of liberalism collapsing everywhere, look at CA, its built a huage welfare state,entitlements everywhere and now the state is on the verge of total collapse because it cannot afford it and the people left workign there simply have no money that can be stolen from them by g'ment....if you wish to see liberalsim, look at CA. Then look at states like NY, MI, NJ...all domianted by liberals, all huge welfare states with massive entitlements...and they are all on the verge of financial ruin, because liberalism is not sustainable and it doesn't require people to produce and it work...it rewards lazyness and deadbeats.
I have zero compassion for the guy who is able bodied but chooses not work work, he woudl rather live off the system.....its to the point now hwere I just don't care on bit about that guy.
liberalism is decaying the american spirit and destorying our economic system. Again I make the promise, eventually a majoirty are going to figure out they do not have to work cus the g'ment will take care of there every need....when that day comes, this whole systme comes crumbling down...and like I said, the early signs are already htere in states like CA....the liberal structure has destoryed the state of CA.....its a giant welfare state that has shown us all its unsustainable.....
Its not my job to pay for your life....I earn what I have, no one has given me anything....and I became successfu lwith out a single hand out or g'ment program.....life should offer us equal opportunity, not equal outcome...cus in reality some people just do not wish to work....and I have little compassion for them.

@LordMike

By the way, Jefferson was a Democrat, not a republican.

It absolutely kills me when I hear conservatives in this country crying about how much tax they pay. The top earners in this country pay 35%. When compared to other prosperous countries in the world it is equal and many times lower.

As was previously mentioned the progressive tax system taxes those who actually make money. Maybe you don't understand this concept. Let me break it down for you. (The following calculations are obviously not taken from tax code--just an example to aid the misinformed.)

$20,000*0.35 = $7,000 leaving this person with $13,000 to live on an annual basis.

49,200 (my salary)*0.35 = $17,220 leaving me with $31,980

I may provide more skilled labor than does the person who makes $20,000. The amount of money I earn reflects that and after taxes I am still living better than the person who makes $20,000. Hopefully you actually think about what you are saying in your next post--because your argument frankly does not hold water.

And furthermore, if you REALLY think about it the concentration of wealth in this country (this didnt happen by beating on the rich) has demolished the middle class and is the real cause for middle class strife--IE, WE NEED TO TAX HIGH EARNERS MORE. The encouragement of outsourcing good paying manufacturing jobs to other nations is crippling the US. With continuing globalization (that conservatives salivate over) the middle class will keep declining in numbers and salaries.

So, you can continue to support the GOP who do not support Unions (which defend the average middle class job), closing overseas tax shelters (making your taxes go up) and who do not support increasing eligibility in terms of financial aid for students.

And give me a damn break. You should take pride in paying your taxes. The economic and political systems of this country have enabled you to get a decent paying job and put food on the table for your family. Pay your taxes with a smile on your face or move to a place like Russia where the top earners pay 13% in taxes but the poverty rate is 40%. I should warn you that ALL of Russia's "rich" are worth $209 billion while the top 10 richest people in the US are worth $286 billion.

Take your chances. I dare you.

SERVED>>>>>>>>>>>

Its like you guys live in a box. When I returned from the service my first job paid me $6 an hour. you start out low and over time you wrok your way up, its been that way forever. You people asking me to pay for all your things so you can live beyond your means.
You are right, the g'ment provided the system which allowed me to get a good paying job, but it was reagan's small g'ment system that did that.
You people think the answer to everything is simply to to take more of what "I" earn....where is the line drawn? When you combined the millions of different taxes, income tax, state income tax, local incometax, property tax, fuel tax, hotel tax, sales tax, utiltity tax, vehicle tax, capital gains tax, payroll tax, medicare tax....the lsit goes on and on and on and on....I am paying well over 70 percent of what I earn to in taxes.....if I was given just half that money back I would spend it on things that employ people.
This is such a simple concept, and you guys do not see it. When people in all income classes have more of their own money, they spend more of their own money which stimulates the economy, which puts people to work. When the g'ment takes the majoirty of my money, I have nothing left to really spend, so the g'ment takes it and then gives it away in the form of an entitlement such as food stamps...well who does that employ except a few g'ment workers?
I'm no millionaire, but the guy who owns the company i work for is...and its because he was able to invest his OWN money into his business that I and many others have a job. If you want company's to stop shipping jobs overseas, then end corporate taxes in exchange for keeping thsoe jobs here....I saw the CEO of IBM say that very thing, if they had no tax to pay he could brings thousands and thousands of rkers home to the states....here in NV the idiot liberals just yesterday passed a $800 million dollar tax increase and part of that was doubling the payroll taxes employers have to pay per employee....and they did it in the middle of a recession....every major employer here has said they are goig to have to lay off workers now because they cannot afford a doubling of there tax burden. That in turn puts me people into dependency mode for me to support. The MGM one of the biggest hotel company's says the new tax may force them to lay off as many as 12,000 workers because they don't have the money available to pay that much more in tax.
This is lunacy!!!! You are beating the people up in this country by way of taxation...so it can simply be given to those who are less skilled and less willing to work. Over spending by g'ment and punitive taxation is desotrying us...and you libs think the answer is more of both. There is simply a point at which it does not work...just look at CA like I said, its a mess....because the tax and spend method does not work. Simply giving people what they need doesn't grow the economy or provide jobs....why do libs oppose the work for welfare program? its because they do not want people to have to work for anything, they want and need a permanant underclass to stay in power. My ex borther in law is a perfect example, never had a job in his life, lives off of welfare and he was perfectly happy to collect a $1,044 check each month fro mthe state.....and yet you people think that is just fine. Give me my money back....give everyone their money back and this economy will boom. Younger people need to understand you start low, we all lived in the apartment with two roommates to make it when we were younger...and overtime you work your way up....I went from $6 an hour and many years later I get to enjoy a six figure income....not because the g'ment gave it to me, but because business was allowed to prospure and people with money were allowed to invest in that company to allow it to eventually profit.
The g'ment is supposed to work for us, not against us. Taking what someone else earns in excess is theft, it just is. You have no right to my earnings. A fair tax is something everyone supports...but punitive taxation must stop. People with money don't just keep the money locked in a safe somewhere, they use that money to invest in business, grow business and provide everyone with jobs.
Again, you people ignore it, but just look to CA to see what the end result of liberal economic theory is...its a financial collapse. If g'ment tomorrow cut everyone's income tax rate in half, across the board for EVERYONE....this country would boom, business would thrive....jobs owl dbe created everywhere because people would have money to spend. Reagan and Kennedy both showed us that by cutting taxes you actually generage more revenue to the g'ment because employment goes up....cus spending goes up and investment both go up which are direct positive forces on the economy. When taxes go up and g'ment gets bigger, we have seen time and time again unemployment rises....Europe enjoys this socialist nonsense and even during good times they routinly run double digit unemployment.
People with any kind of money are fleeing states like NY and CA...and as a result those states are on the verge of collapse....cus they have stolen so much money from those people that there is none left to steal.
You have a perfect model of what liberalism looks like in CA, is that what you want for the entire country? The g'ment was never intended to take from one person and give it to someone else, that system simply is not sustainable...I know you younger people have been taught otherwise, but its not sustainable. This class warefare must stop, taxes shoud be reduced on everyone across the board....I am indeed paying over 70% of all my income on all the taxes when put together, that is theft...the g'ment is taking that and dishing it out to people who do not deserve it...it creates no jobs....stimulates nothing but the size and power of g'ment.
I you give the people and business there money back and let them keep there earnings, this country would become an economic powerhouse like it used to be. There would be no need for many of the welfare programs we have today because people would ahve jobs and could take care of themselves.....but then that's the real catch isn't it? Cus liberals don't want people with jobs and to be able totake care of themselves....with no one dependent on them, they would not hae any power...and that is what its really about. liberals at the top, the elite, the limozine liberals want the power to control and manage your lives, they will give you just enough scraps from there table for you to survive as long as you keep voting for them.
I feel ba dfor you younger people, the country I once faught for is much different...I have seen the desire and spirit ofr younger people eroded by dependncy....

Read this article

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/reagan-and-revenue/

And it sounds like your brother may be disabled. Someone able to work can't stay on welfare their whole lives. Its law.

Anyway, use some decent facts/numbers when you try to prove a point. Otherwise, your argument turns people off not based on your point but the way you present it.

I know you're upset at the way your government is operating. I am not exactly pleased we have an almost $2 trillion debt this year alone, but you are fooling yourself if you think the only people who created this were liberals. Clinton forced banks to give people loans who could not afford it and Bush's federal reserve kept interest rates too low. We all did it. The time to complain is not now. The time to complain was before the mess.

Now, lets talk about solutions to the mess we are in.

It's interesting that Stillow talks about people living off the government. Well, like me, he was in the military, which, relies solely on taxes to be funded. Irony or irony that this man is proud of his military years, yet, can't stand the system we have come up to fund his beloved military. Our military is the greatest socialist system ever devised. So next time Shillow you gripe about taxes ask yourself..........who is going to pay if we as a collective society will not?

i have stated a trillion times over, no one is opposed topaying taxes, I am opposed to over taxation....70% of what I earn goes to the g'ment which is then spent on some legit things like the military as it is constituionally mandated to do....but most of it is wasted in various entitlement programs.

@omgSTILLOW
That is the first samrt thing you've said. I was compalining about g'ment spending years ago...in fact I left the republican party because it left its small g'ment fiscal conservatism behind and became a big g'ment big spending party. The g'ment is taking to much and spending way to much....we the people cannot afford to give anymore....we are tapped out. I'm paying bills for people who shoud be paying them themselves. Its unjust and immoral to take that much of my money....the people are capable of taking care of themselves if the g'ment would setup the enviroment to do it. Instead of they want to prohibit growth by way of dependency. You cannot eat your way to lose weight, just as you cannot spend your way out of debt.....and yes a2 trillion this year is insane...and its going to get worse.
China is signaling we better stop or they will not finance our debt, that is going to force the g'ment to print the money....hyperinflation is around the corner.
Read the MGM press release yesterday, they are flat out saying they will be laying people off due directly to the doubling of there tax burden....that is not economic growth, that is once again g'ment imposing its its will on the free market and desotyring it.
Let me make it clear for those of you who don't seem to get it....everyone supports fair taxation....but I am opposed to over taxation and over spending which is hwat is going on now.
States like CA are in huge trouble and its all due to over taxation and to much spending. I give CA probably until the end of the year before it totally collapses financially and the feds go in and bail them out...that will start a cascade of mostly blue states collapsing and getting abiled out. the question is who will bail out the feds?
Reagan used to tell us we are better off spending our money than the g'ment is...that principle remains true. The best way to grow an economy and provide the maximum number of jobs to the people is allowing us to contro lour resources and not let the g'ment seize them to distribute to those who it feels needs it. both parties are now left of center on spending and as a result there is no longer an adequate force to stop the spending and we are on the verge of economic ruin....hyperinflation is coming....
I ask this of liberals all the time, name me one g'ment entitlement program that actually works and isn't going bankrupt....there isn't any, they are all bankrupt...and its simply because you cannot sustain an entitlement system...a welfare state cannot exist because there is only so much money to go around and the g'ment is taking it all. Liberals want a huge lower class so they can remain in power...liberalism by its nature only functions if it has victims to take care of....if we were all successful there owuld be no need for it, so they purposely convince the people they need a g'ment program to do this or that. G'ment involvement prolonged the depression of the 30's...and Bush's and Obama's spending is going to make this recession much worse than it woudl ahve been....look at the auto bailouts btoh presidents supported, it did nothing to save the auto industry....all it did was waste our tax money....in a futile attempt to save the unions.
This spending has to stop, this over taxation has to stop....you do not create wealth by dividing it...you do not create prosperity for all by taking it away from thsoe who already have it....prosperity comes from the people themselves................not the g'ment.

How much we each should pay in taxes is only one part of the argument.

The bigger question, in my mind, is what do we get for the money we pay. I don't see the govt taking over health care as being a good thing. Adding govt bureaucracy to the system will only drive up the price and will not deliver health care to anyone. Bureaucrats don't treat patients. Govt decided the poor needed better housing and what did we get? The projects. I don't even want to know what the health care equivalent of the projects is.

As for the progressive tax rate argument, I can't resist.

@omgSTILLOW

"The top earners in this country pay 35%. When compared to other prosperous countries in the world it is equal and many times lower."

Your argument assumes I want the quality of life they have in Western Europe or any other developed nation. WRONG! I am quite happy that our top tax rates are well below what those SOCIALISTS pay.

And your argument that a flatter tax rate would put us on a par with Russia is outrageous. Comparing a free market economy to the Russian economy, which is still mostly controlled by the state, makes no sense at all.

I guess I just do not understand why people want g'ment to run anything....with very veryfew exceptions such as the military the g'ment cannot run anything. every entitlement we have today is bankrupt or going bankrupt....the burocracy is huge and inefficient....we have countless examples of how g'ment can't run anything and yet people want them to run more. What ever price tag they put on health care, we need to at the very least triple it....
Again I will beat this dead horse, if you want to see what g'ment control over peoples lives looks like, if you want to see liberal economic theory in action...just look at CA, that is eactly what the entire nation will look if we keep socializing everything....and spending money we don't have...and raising taxes.
If you think CA is in good shape, then I guess keep voting for liberals!

@Stillow,

I think I fit the "liberal" tag you're using, so I'll try to answer some of your questions.

As to why I want g'ment to run anything, it's because I don't trust businesses to do it well or fairly. For instance, while I'm not impressed with Medicare and Medicaid, I'm also not impressed with insurance companies. And at least the g'ment will provide health care to everyone.

I think our entitlements are going bankrupt because politicians have any easier time promising services than convincing us to pay more taxes. I agree that it's a problem, but while you think the solution is for them to offer fewer services, I believe the solution is for them to be honest about the costs and adjust taxes accordingly. If that means I pay more (and I'm sure it would), so be it. I'm sure there's some programs I think we should do away with, but they're not coming to mind right now.

I believe that entitlement programs are there to help people change their economic status. It's incredibly difficult to become a productive member of society from scratch, as you're well aware. Fortunately, you had the military to put you to work and give you an education. When I was a college student with children, I received help from various g'ment sources for paying tuition, housing, health care, etc. If not for that assistance, I would have had to quit college and find a blue-collar job. Instead, I now pay taxes just like you. In the long run, the government should be more than paid back for the money they gave me back then by the taxes I will pay for the next 30+ years. That's how entitlement programs should work, and I believe that they can.

None of these programs are perfect, but I feel they're better than nothing.

70% of your earnings? I'd be curious to see the breakdown on that.

And as for the argument that if you were allowed to keep your money, you would put it back in the economy, I don't buy it. Let me ask you this: who do you think saves more money, someone making $200k per year, or someone making $20k per year? Definitely the latter, right? Because they need every dollar they have to pay their bills. Meanwhile the other guy can save some, if not most, of his money. So if we're talking job creation, which is better: money buying goods, or money on wall street? I think the former.

Anyway, there's a lot more you had on your mind, but I should be getting back to work.

How about a third question:

Would you prefer a health care reform plan that raises taxes in order to provide health insurance to all Americans and increases American companies competitiveness abroad, or a plan that does not provide health insurance to all Americans but keeps taxes at current levels?

On the tempest above I will only say that self-serving comments by the well-off neglect that their wealth is built on the backs of the poor.

@TerryDarc

"...the well-off neglect that their wealth is built on the backs of the poor."

A party line yawner.

Actually, most successful people are successful because they raise up those around them.

@Andrew

"None of these programs are perfect, but I feel they're better than nothing."

Barely better than nothing. 11 trillion dollars fighting poverty, hunger and illiteracy since the early 60's. And we have barely made a dent. GM has a better track record.

Since I have the floor to myself, why not?

We disagree on taxing and spending, national defense, maybe a few social issues. I don't vote on social issues, but we probably disagree anyway.

So that makes me an ogre. My wealth is built on the backs of the poor. What about Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Harry Reid, Alec Baldwin? I could go on and on. I assure you they all have more wealth than I do. But because of their "enlightened" views, their wealth wasn't built on the backs of the poor. Somehow they came by theirs honestly and I didn't. And you want me to take you seriously?

When I say we have spent trillions on poverty and it hasn't worked, it doesn't mean I think we should do nothing for the less fortunate. But there ought to be a limit on how much is taken from me and given to others. I work my tail off to provide for my family as best I can. Is it too much to expect others to do whatever they need to in order to do the same for their families?

How many of the less fortunate are qualified for grants and loans to get an education and try to better themselves but never put out the effort? Am I supposed to feel sorry for them? I assure you I don't.

I am a big believer in education. If you want to take a few extra bucks out of my check and use it to improve education, I am all for it. But to take more from me and use it for programs that have failed for 45 years in a row makes no sense. Why would I be for that?

@Andrew

Thank you, finally a liberal who made sense...I understood exactly waht you were saying and it makes perfect sense, I disagree with the comments, but it made perfect sense...so thank you.
I fundamentally disagree with entitlements than you do, you think they help people gain success, I think they serve to hold people back from achieving success...there always exceptions, but I think more people abuse them than take advantage of them.
And ht eothe rpoint about the guy with 20k or 200k savings...yes the guy with 200k will save more, but he saves it to spend at a later time or to leave to his family upon his death and they in turn will spend it. I simply feel the best economic stimulus is the people spending there own money on goods and services they need and want. I don't think g'ment is capable of stimulating or driving the economy, it mus tbe done thru us and thru business.
And while you do not trust business, I do not trust g'ment...not one bit do I trust them, I feel g'ment is 10x more corrupt that any business.
...and thus you and I have just discussed the classic differences between fiscal liberals and conservatives....

@Bigmike

Well said. I have built nothing on the backs of anyone...I provide a service to my employer and he compensates me for what that service is worth.

To me the war on poverty has failed because you cannot legislate away people's lack of desire or passion. People need to want to get out of poverty for them to do so. Trillions of dollars has been sent with no result, it isn't due to the lack of trying or money, its because entitlement sonly serve to keep oepole where they are....they provide no incentive to get off the system. As long we we offer a method for people to do nothing and yet still receive the ability to live thru handouts, many people will simply be happy with that...so you create a neverending pattern of dependency. Once people are dependent its difficult to do something for yourself.
I am convinced liberals oppose programs like the work for welfare, because they do not want people elarning skills or trades, they need a solid base of the population dependent in one way or antoher on them...otherwise they lose there important and influence. All Americans beleive in a hand up to people who need it, but I strongly oppose hand outs, esepcially on going hand outs. There has to be incentive to get off the system and provide for yourself. But the liberals attempt to help actually only serves to keep these people in poverty and keep them dependent.
The best way to improve medical care for all americans is not thru a over priced g'ment run system which I can just see now would be a nightmare, the best to way to improve it is to grow the economy and increase employment and allow people to earn more money and keep more of their money so they can buy coverage. We need seirous reform on medical related law suits, we need to modernize the system and we simply need to grow the economy. We need people to keep there money so theycan buy coverage. You can buy pretty good plans for not a lot of money each month. So the focus should be on improving those things and to gear our economic policy towards growth and expansion thru tax cuts so that business can prospure and when business prospures, the people prospure.
Again A strong economy and good fiscal policy utilziing smller g'ment and tax cuts for everyone....simply taking from one guy to give to antoher guy doesn't work....cus eventually the guys taking outnumber the ugys giving and then it all goes boom!