Pollster.com

And the breakdown of the healthcare question is:

29% Strongly favor
16% Somewhat favor
7% Somewhat oppose
45% Strongly oppose
3% Not sure

Americans are so stupid. Single payer may not be perfect and I admmit there are long lines, and some stories about people waiting a long time is true, but all things considered, giving uninsured people that choice, will improve the number of uninsured considerable.

In the north and around the country in 1861, many Americans had they been polled, would have said it is okay to keep slavery. Most northerners didn't want to go to war. Lincoln was not popular at that time either, but he did what was morally right. 45,000 people die per year for being uninsured. Just because i live in a state where only 3 percent are uninsured, doesn't mean I don't care about the 29 percent who are uninsured in Texas. Those people who are uninsured in states like Texas, NM, Arkansas and others need to be polled to see if they support a health care overhaul. I haven't seen one poll like that. The courts can fight us all they want, and they can have their tea parties and insult a dying man with parkinson's at a anti-health care rally, but this is a cause that goes way beyond keeping the house and senate, or Obama being a one-term president, it is a issue that once health care is passed, the debates will not be in the media as much, and people will like it.

I am sure by the year 1900 most northerners were proud of fighting the civil war and Blacks being free. That is why decisions may not always be popular at the time but in the long run it was the right thing to do.

What they have missed in recent weeks is doing polls among Democrats to see what they think of the health reform, and if they would vote for anyone who votes against health reform. Even though the Democrats could lose seats either way, if they see enough polls that shows their base not interested or consider a primary challenger or third party, they will see to it health care is passed.

No Democrat can win an election without Democrats. For those who are progressive, keep telling that to your Democratic congressmen or women.

So the bill's numbers have improved slightly in Ras. Interesting.

Farleftandproud:

"Americans are so stupid."

Typical liberal thinking. Those who disagree with you are stupid because only you know what is best for us.

"it is a issue that once health care is passed, the debates will not be in the media as much, and people will like it."

If it is passed it will never go away. There will be partisan wars for generations over what is covered and how to pay for it.

This bill will cost around $900 billion over the next ten years. And the benefits don't kick in for 3 years. So the actual cost for 10 years of coverage is about $1.3 trillion. And you have to remember that they are picking the rosiest scenario they can come up with in order to get those numbers. Among those assumptions is that all of the taxes and fess collected those first three years will be banked for later use to pay for benefits. When was the last time you saw a Congress leave money laying around? It won't happen.

I know, it is supposed to actually reduce the defecits. When they say it will reduce the defecit by $100 biliion, it just means that the taxes collected will be that much more than the spending. If they are spending $900 billion it means we will be paying in a trillion.

This is about nothing but growing govt and making us all slaves to Washington. To pay for this boondoggle taxes will have to be raised again and again and again. We will indeed become more like the quasi-socialist European states where 10% unemployment is the norm.

Doesn't sound like a better America to me.

Americans aren't stupid at all. They see this corrupt congress and know that anything that they could do for themselves for $1.00 will cost the government $1.50 when you factor in the waste, fraud, and bribes.

If healthcare costs American $2.5 trillion now, it would cost the government $4 trillion for single payer. Our taxes would have to go up 75% to pay to fix a problem that affects 10% of the country. Now that's something stupid.

Excellent post Bigmike. Agree 100%.

Europe is a terrible place to live. Your freedom there is traded for a comfortable form of living for everyone.

X,

Says who? I would argue that 90% of the people live below the Average American's standard of living.

But i would agree with you, Europe would be a terrible place to live, having had to live there for a year and spending every summer there.

I think you can't generalize all European countries in the same light. Some parts of Europe are really poor, but so are parts of the US. From my experience, there was less homelessness in Britain when I was there, and more of Europe is not nearly as rural as much of the interior US. Rural people as a rule are going to be more likely to want fewer taxes and services from the state.

Some countries like Finland however have very low tax rates, and Finland is a more rural country than the Netherlands. As for Canada they have a lot of people that are very much like Americans. Canada has a lot of people who are churchgoers regularly and like to hunt, and when I have gone over the border they searched my care more meticulously for guns coming back into the US than coming into Canada.

The single payer system was brought in to canada gradually and started in the province of Sascatchewan and than it worked for a lot of people and now they have universal coverage.

As for living conditions, I can honestly say that Toronto, Montreal, and Ottawa are much like the American cities. There are sketchy sections of canadian cities and nice suburbs. Nevertheless, not having the burden of health care costs save families a lot of money.

Farleft,

Your posts are all over the place. Like this sentence: Some countries like Finland however have very low tax rates, and Finland is a more rural country than the Netherlands. As for Canada they have a lot of people that are very much like Americans.

In any case, Finland has slightly similar income tax rates compared to the US going from 5% to 30.5% if you make over E64k. However, they tax capital gains at 28% and have a VAT tax of an appalling 23%. Hence, if you ever go there, the prices of normal goods are so expensive. A big mac meal which is $5.50 here costs just under $10 there. A coke is $4.50.

If government programs are so terrible why not propose the phasing out of SS and Medicare? It should be quite popular. Why are Congressional Republicans running away from Paul Ryan's proposals? After all, Americans hate the big government we have right now.

Also, why not dramatically scale back the national security State? China has a significantly smaller defense posture than we do but they are as safe as we are. We could save trillions from these moves and cut taxes dramatically!

I think we all know why none of these things are about to happen any time soon. Republicans talk the talk but do not have the balls to walk the walk. At least Obama has the balls to push his ideological beliefs.

Coke may be more expensive in parts of Europe than here, but good imported beer in England is way cheaper by british standards than here. That is what I care the most about.

Americans are stupid. Ignorant, unpatriotic, selfish sloths. How dumb are you to deny health care. Especially to children. So everyone against it will be healthy forever. I can only wait until karma kicks in and your children get denied for pre-existing.

Americans have got to realize taxes have got to go up. Bush left this place in shambles. Instead of thanking our current administration for stopping the fall when they did. You want to blame them. What a fing joke. you believe the most ruthless 2 faced hypocrites. You trust republicans. That is flat out stupid. This how dumb people are. The current administration is only trying to get the same health care for us as what they already have. So someone who has insurance already is telling me no when I help pay for his insurance. hypocrites. I can not have it but it is ok if i do.

One last thing why do republicans even matter after the last eight years? I’ll never know. But i refuse to listen to their lies. Everybody is ok with the Rep. voting on 2 trillion in a illegal war, but freak when someone gives your country men insurance. Not to mention the perqs like working on the deficit, no denying kids, cheaper prescriptions all at a lower cost for everyone.

People are really stupid with conspiracy theories, and how many in here have crunched the #’s to prove wrong. Nobody has a legitimate reason for voting against health care except to line their pockets.

ps-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6Q14HOBThM

Nice rant Ian. You are a good ObamaBot myrmidon. Keep it up! You are the definition of the American hater that will doom the democratic party.

No, Ian, people like us need to stand up and never let people forget what happened under Bush, where Torture was legitimized and our record ended up being somewhere between Russia and Turkey on the INternational Human rights score. THat is not a country I am proud of. I would suggest that we can't be as intimidating and defaming as the radical tea party crowds were last summer. We can't stoop to their level as much as we are tempted to punch them in the nose when they start treating a man with Parkinson's disease like he is a dog, and ripped up a photo of Rosa Parks during Sen. Mccaskill's town hall in Missouri. Hate will get us no where, but standing up to injustice is something we must do.