Pollster.com

26% Strongly support while 45% strong oppose.

Who cares? Rasmussen's model is not representative of the entite country. No poll of 2010 likely voters can be representative of the country. Even polls of presidential-year electorates are not representative of the country although they are closer.

Besides, leadership is not always or even mostly about polls. There was popular opposition to the Iraq surge and yet Bush pushed it through. There was popular opposition to the Clinton impeachment and yet Republicans pushed it through. Why didn't you guys care about popular opinion then?

I could care less about public opinion. But I am not asking anyone to vote for me in Nov. Those who are trolling for votes care very much about registered voters and even likely voters.

Here we are after 4PM in DC and still no voting going on. I have to believe that means the Dems do not have the votes. If they did there would be a role call happening.

It amazes me that Stupak is considering letting his concerns be addressed by executive order. If executive orders can change the meaning of the bill, then how is this not govt health care? BO can't touch the private sector with an executive order.

Strange you should mention leadership Williame123. If there was any coming from the WH this would have been done before the Brown election.

Rasmussen oh Rasmussen, you can finally start a new issue to tear down progressives. I think passing health care tonight will be a signal that politicians with guts cannot listen to polls on such a critical issue as healthcare. This country is not that well educated or even interested in politics the way other nations are. Of course the public is confused when so many politicians had so many bills and interests, and big pharma and big insurance spent so much money to attack the efforts and tear it down.

Maybe Democrats will lose seats, and I am sure that not every district will be happy about the health care passing, but for Obama, victory will show that he is a strong and decisive leader. Americans don't always allow one policy issue like healthcare, base their vote on.

Lets see what Rasmussen will come up with next as far as their polling, which has tried to convince America that tea partiers and their sympathizers make up a majority of the population. That is what Rasmussen wants to happen.

I am pleased that reason and common sense is finally winning out. Thank you Obama for not giving in and fighting the good fight!

@Bigmike
"Strange you should mention leadership Williame123. If there was any coming from the WH this would have been done before the Brown election."

You are missing the forest for the trees. Despite having greater Congressional majorities and 3+ terms, FDR didn't come close on HCR and neither did Truman. JFK couldn't get Medicare though with huge Congressional majorities at a less polarized and more economically progressive time. LBJ needed overwhelming Congressional majorities and the political capital that came with Kennedy's assassination to get Medicare/Medicaid through. Nixon's HCR proposal's went nowhere. Clinton didn't even get a bill out of committee let alone one on the floor!

What Obama has done is AMAZING, especially if you consider the ferocity of the opposition and the ideological diversity of the Democratic caucus. You are confusing Obama's political strategy with the question of leadership. In fact, it is easy to argue that his public deference to Congress on this bill helped it pass. By allowing the details of the bill to rise organically through Congress whiles he gave the broad outlines, gave Congressional Democrats and their leadership a stake in the bill. This strategy made it far more difficult for Congressional Democrats to walk away from it politically.

It was easier for Democrats to convince themselves that they could run away from Clinton's Bill politically because they did not have their fingerprints on it publicly. Also, Obama got some Democrats from conservative States and districts, where he is hated, to vote for HCR AFTER the contentious town hall meetings last summer. That is amazing. After Scott Brown was elected, the political punditry and Republicans thought HCR was dead. Look at where we are now. The Scott Brown election was actually a blessing in disguise. It gave Obama and Congressional Democrats a bit of breathing room with their base. It also gave Obama the incentive to take on the opposition and brought out the best in him, just as the 1994 elections brought out the best in Bill Clinton politically. I really hope that Republicans take the House this fall. It would virtually guarantee Obama's re-election.

Could you imagine Clinton or Bush pulling this off in the face of such an electoral warning shot? If a Scott Brown-type election had taking place in 1992, HillaryCare would never have left the White House. Bush's Social Security reforms died on arrival in Congress. His immigration Reform bill failed miserably despite sizable Democratic support. You may not like his legislative strategy, but Obama is a hell of a fighter and a leader.

Government shouldn't be about our representatives having the guts to go against public opinion. We elect the representatives to represent our, the people's, views. So, when politicians vote opposite public opinion, it is basically a slap in the face to all of us. However, regardless of all this, I'm proud to say that every representative and senator from my state of Oklahoma voted against this government takeover of healthcare.

"Could you imagine Clinton or Bush pulling this off in the face of such an electoral warning shot?"

No, they were too smart to pass a bill that was complete garbage and would eventually bankrupt the country.

Field Marshall

Another way of looking at this is to say we have a President who takes a longer term view of what is needed to make a better America in the 21st century, not before time, and isn't pandering to the polls or corporate special interest groups. i note that there is compromise in the passed legislation and I also note various deals have also been done to ensure the passage for the greater good - all transparent - or you wouldn't know about it, would you? Only in the course of time will we find that most of the fears expressed were based on propaganda and fiction created by the insurance industry. Many of us,on the left, disagree with Obama about Afghanistan but again that hasn't stopped a President who should be respected for taking the tough decisions and seeing it through. - more to follow!

thoughtful,

So you would say that Bush took the longer-term view in Afghanistan and Iraq with tremendous leadership and ignored the polls? I assume you also respect Bush for making the tough decisions and seeing it through. He did what was unpopular but right for our country. Correct?

As far as health care goes, i'm glad it has passed so now we can read the bill and find out whats in it, just like Pelosi and Obama are doing now.

Field Marshal

Bush went into Afghanistan and half did the job (at best)on getting the people responsible for 9/11 , in fact as we know blew it or we wouldn't be there now, before, foolishly going into Iraq without regards to the geo-political consequences, declaring victory in Iraq whilst in the process of unwittingly falling into a protracted conflict. Confirmed simpleton!

Doing nothing and keeping the status quo will bankrupt the country. I would say at least 40 percent of people who have children under 25 are ininsured or waiting to get insurance if they get sick. Young people can develop cancer and other preventable diseases too. A nation without universal access is one that is not a industrialized democracy. I am so happy for Obama to keep the faith alive and others like Stupak used their concerns about morality to bring a party together instead of tear people down. I am proud that 219 men and women came together and made this reform happen.

thoughful,

Simpleton to the ideologically blinded person, yes. But i think history will judge him much more favorably as time passes. Obama, on the other hand, has been shown to be a neophyte with zero leadership skills and very little real-world view. If he is lucky enough to get a second term, i think he could easily eclipse Carter as the worst president ever.

I don't understand the half job. Yes, OBL got away but at least he attempted to do something. Considering we had the guy many times in the cross-hairs after several bombings, its an abomination that he was still alive on 9/11.

One could also say that Iraq was the ultimate al-qaeda trap. We took over a more friendly based geographic country that supported terrorism and drew in tens of thousands of al-qaeda fighters there and killed or captured them.

However, looking at Iraq today. It looks like the liberals including Biden and Obama were 100% wrong.

Field Marshal

I suppose the issue is whether you want an outwardly interfering US government or an inward one? The same people that think US Government is wrong to run US health care are the same guys that think the US Government should be intervening all over the world. Whilst Carter was badly regarded in the US, the Camp David Accord is plenty meaningful for others and has endured the test of time. Has GWB got any successes at all in 8 years in office, economic, foreign policy, social justice failure? I think you are completely wrong about Iraq. The architect of the war Rumsfield had to go, a certain General P still retained, indeed latterly promoted by the Obama administation was responsible for the conterinsurgency policies that have helped to stabalize Iraq. However General P would be the first to admit that the turning point was the Iraqi Sunnis themselves that taking the lead in the war against Al Qaeda in Iraq. The fact is that we went into Iraq for regime change. Bush was successful at that!

thoughtful,

One of the reasons i voted for Bush in 2000 was his non-interventionist vision for America going forward, basically an end to the 'World's Cop' title. However, 9/11 changed that tune for me. We can't simply sit back and let them keep coming. We also cannot simply construct 100 ft walls around our borders to keep everyone out.

This is a globalized world that needs more connectivity, not less. The people who don't want the government to run health care realize that they can make their own choices. For some reason, the democrats think they know all the best decisions for all its people- and of course, use the 'do as a i say, not as i do' mantra. If things keep going like they are, look for us to be living similarly to the people in the movie Demolition Man.

I think your definition of successes will be significantly different than mine. For example, what successes has Obama had in 15 months considering he had a super-majority? And isn't the surge and General P's turning of the Sunnis a success for Bush?

I also wouldn't hold the Camp David Accords as Carter successes either.

Field Marshal

You are putting the react into reactionary!

Government is intervening/reforming Healthcare in the US for much the same reason that the US Government has had to intervene in the world and not be isolationist, the difference is that health care is personal and the 9/11 equivalent affects individuals but collectively millions of Americans. To deny that a peace treaty bewtween Israel and Egypt that has endured over 30 years is not an achievement (success) is to be in denial of reality. With regards to 9/11 this happened on GWB's watch and despite the intelligence the Bush Administration did nothing to protect us. On the other hand intelligence was not properly vetted or presented in a misleading way to justify the Iraq misadventure and further posturing.

FM-
I'm sorry you haven't had a chance to read the bill passed last night. The Senate passed it back in December, I'm sure there is some website with the text out there. Right now, that's all that is going to become law, until the Senate acts, so you'll have plenty of time to read that, if it ever becomes law...Keep trying the government run health care line as long as you can. I think it will lose it's effectiveness very soon. Tell me what this bill has government run or forces choices on you besides having to have health coverage?

And actually I do credit Bush for going against the grain and enacting a policy that led to much more positive changes in Iraq. It ended up being timed perfectly with the Sunni's deciding to go against Al-Qaida on their own, with was exploited very well by Gen. P. What I blame him for was not doing it sooner, four years of bumbling Rummy policy was too much. It was like watching someone beat their head into a wall until they were on the brink of unconsciousness, and then decide to open the door with the handle. I also credit Bush 1 with realizing that to fix the budget he needed to raise taxes, and I give him more credit for the 90's boom then Clinton. And I give credit to Bush 2 - for when the banking crisis saying, "there's ideology and beliefs, but in a emergency you have to do what is needed." or something like that.

Thoughtful,

Yes, however one is explicitly stated in the constitution while the other is not. Forcing people to buy something they don't want it not only un-American, but un-constitutional. The US is intervening in health care because they want to expand government. You know full well that whats in the bill will not decrease costs or increase care quality- actually just the opposite.

So you give no fault to Clinton for 9/11? It did happen under GWB's watch. But shouldn't have happened at all. Government was a step behind as per usual. GWb got a new threat each day from the intelligence agencies. Was he supposed to know, in advance, which one was going to be carried out? I know he's a smart man, but you are stating that he's also clairvoyant as well. Someone is definitely denying reality there.

The Sunnis recognized they were going to lose if they continued to side with Al qaeda. The addition of another 30,000 troops only confirmed that. To say that the two just happened to coincide is another denial of reality.

As far as healthcare reform goes: there has been so much misinformation and myth generated that the polling public has not got sufficient information to properly judge the plan which has been polled. November is going to be really very interesting.

Thaddeus,

The liberals have indoctrinated you well. To say that the 90's boom is because of a RAISING of taxes is hysterical. Too funny. You must have gone to the same economics classes as Obama.

The HCR bill is out there since the House caved and new they couldn't pass their own bill. Sure, its not a full-fledged government takeover but we are now well on our way. Hopefully, the percentage of Americans who were against this bill will vote come November and show Pelosi and company the street where they belong.

My Iraq response in the last post was for you.

FM

There seems to be more choice as a result of the Healthcare reform not less.

the Clinton Administration escalated our security, the incoming Bush administration largely ignored it.

They didn't coincide the Sunnis turned on Al Q before the surge!

@Field Marshal

"No, they were too smart to pass a bill that was complete garbage and would eventually bankrupt the country."

Riiiiiiiiiigggggggghtttttttt! That is why Bush passed to massive tax cuts and Medicare D without paying for it. That is also why Clinton tried to push an even more progressive HCR bill through Congress in '93. LOL.

Clinton Administration escalated our security?

Ha ha, good one.

By cutting defense spending by half and refusing to take bin Laden when he was offered on a silver platter twice? Twice.

@FM

"So you would say that Bush took the longer-term view in Afghanistan and Iraq with tremendous leadership and ignored the polls? I assume you also respect Bush for making the tough decisions and seeing it through. He did what was unpopular but right for our country. Correct?"

Bush did not take the longer-term view when he invaded both Iraq and Afghanistan. If he had been more circumspect in his analysis, we would not have invaded Iraq and we would have had more strategic success (versus tactical success) in Afghanistan sooner.

As far as sticking it out in Iraq when things looked grim, that took a lot of political courage on Bush's part, although it was in the context of a lame duck second term. It is far easier for presidents to be politically courageous in their second terms. Be that as it may, I thought Bush's resilience on Iraq after 2006, when Republicans and opportunistic neocons had began to abandon him, was the second finest hour of his presidency next to the immediate aftermath of 9/11. What he realized was that once you break something you own it and thus it was in his and the countries interest that we succeed in Iraq. On that part of the issue Iraq issue, he was right and the liberals who wanted immediate withdrawal were wrong.

Unlike you, I am not so blinded by ideology that I cannot give my ideological opponents credit where credit is due.

SP
Spend as we know from the GWB mis-administration and deficits has proven to be very effective way of engendering a prosperous and safe America. Time for some progressive change and exercise of Presidential responsibility and leadership both at home and overseas. Heathcare reform for the better is the first of many imperatives that this President will achieve.According to the CNN poll this President is more trusted to achieve that than anyone else.

FM-
Iraq: According to a general I listened to the other day, one the Sunni Sheiks came to the Division commander in the area and asked if his fighters could not be shot at, while they went after the Al-Qaida forces in the area. It was after they killed a couple sheiks in the area. This was before the surge officially started, but Gen. P. was astute enough to work it in as one of the center pieces that we now know as "The Sunni Awakening".

HCR- I don't even think it is really a Mandate/or forced to buy insurance. The enforcement mechanism is through taxes, so just as you don't have to buy a house, but if you do there's a great 8k credit for you, or interest write off, etc. You don't have to buy insurance, but there's a tax penalty if you don't. It's a very strong encouragement method.

90's- Not saying it caused it, but I think it did hep set the stage. You of all people should know that one of the bad things of running large deficits is the competition for money in the private market place. Do you put your money in T-bills paying 5% or take a chance investing it else where. If there's not many t-bills out there, then you take you're investment elsewhere in the private market. I would guess a balanced budget has a greater economic stimulus effect than a 2% marginal tax cut.

Statypolly,

I laughed out loud at the one too. I guess you can only take in so much propaganda before you fall for it.

William,

We did in Afghanistan in just 4 weeks what the Russians couldn't do in 8 years. We rounded up 25% of Al Qaeda in just 6 months of work there. To say that we didn't have initial successes in Afgh. TRULY lacks a basis in reality.

I am also not blinded by ideology. I was on here months ago stating how Obama, despite the vitriol from the far-left, was doing the right thing in Afghanistan. I also said that he was doing the right thing in regards to continuing the financial intervention that Paulson started.

Thoughtful,

It took 15 months to get a sub-par health bill passed that is very similar to MassCare. Masscare has been a boondoggle in Massachusetts as premiums are now the most expensive in the country. To think this time it will be different, is crazy.

In addition, congress' favorability is in the low teens, so matching a president to congress will always look favorable. I would wager that if you polled who would you trust more, Bush or the Dems in congress, Bush would win.