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US: Obama 50, McCain 45 (Rasmussen 10/08-10)

Topics: PH

By PH Staff

Rasmussen
10/08-10, 08; 3,000 LV 2%

National
Obama 52, McCain 45

 

Comments
EarBucket:

Gosh, it seems like just yesterday Boomshak was saying he was going to stick with Rasmussen for the rest of the race.

____________________

Trosen:

Headline is wrong. It should read:

O52
M45

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

(try to ignore the McCain and NRA banners plastered all over the place by that left-leaning commie liberal Scott Rassmussen)

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johncoz:

It is difficult to underestimate the importance of this poll -- it confirms a horrible reality for the McCain campaign: They're screwed!

To (re)quote Nate Silver from yesterday: "Remember, any world in which McCain has a chance to win on Election Day is a world that looks very different from this one."

Add Troopergate and McCain's contortions on his hate campaign, and you have ... [fill in the blank with your own delicious rhetoric, lol]

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Bonzi77:

The header on this one is wrong. But the poll is still good news. All of the trackers now fully include the window after the McCain camp started this "let's throw everything we've got at the wall and see what sticks" strategy and if anything, there's been a tick back towards Obama. I don't know what cards the McCain camp has left to play.

I don't think it was going to work anyway, but I think the McCain people messed up with HOW they went negative. Maybe Ayers would have gained traction. Maybe Acorn would have gained traction. Maybe the "ambition" card would have gained traction. But when they put it all out there within three days of each other it just looks like another smear du-jour and it all gets devalued. It makes them look desperate, and nobody wants to bet on the guy who is hanging on by a thread.

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Trosen:

troopergate is irrelevant. But the latter you mentioned.. is not. Outside the wingnut "base," this stuff is playing very badly with most if not all swing/undecided voters and independents.

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Oldy75:

As the leader of the vast left wing consperiacy I want to personally take credit for instructing Scott on what his poll results would be. He will be rewarded.

____________________

Dana Adini:

obama + 12 among independents

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johncoz:

@Trosen

The point about Troopergate is that it will probably cost them the weekend news cycles at a time they can least afford it.

But of course you are right. The knots McCain is now tying himself in on the smear campaign are having a devastating effect on the dwindling number of "undecideds".

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Tom:

It looks like Obama had a very good night last night, or McCain had a good Tuesday night that just fell off. The poll notes that this is virtually unchanged from the pre-debate number (O 52/M 44).

Curious how the left-leaning Daily Kos poll and the right-leaning Rasmussen poll have Obama at the exact same number, while the only difference between the two is that Rass gives McCain 5 more points.

____________________

carl29:

Where is "boomy"?

Keep it up McNasty, it is working!!!!!

____________________

johncoz:

@Oldy75

Great job {smile}

ps loved your posts yesterday

____________________

boomshack.fail:

Obama +12 in DK/R2K and +7 in Ras. historical highs.

The gift that keeps on giving, McFailure/Phalin'

____________________

newageblues:

earbucket: yes I knows what you mean. If I had the time to check, I'd tell you what time of day it seems like he said that. Maybe he'll throw up his hands in disgust again, or take the day off.

____________________

Viperlord:

Hey boomspin, has Rasmussen's mind been taken over by evil liberals?

____________________

Trosen:

The debate Wednesday should be interesting. McCain can't play it safe and he can't start screaming "terrorist!" either. He's gonna have to unveil some wild new plan.. like free ice cream on tuesdays or if I win you can see Palin's boobs or something.

Ok.. that last part was uncalled for.. but you get the point. He's going to have to try to steal back the spotlight but coming up with something unexpected and from completely out of left field.

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zoom:

While "troopergate" in and of itself may not make a huge difference (Palin is running for VP not Pres), I think it does hurt McCain a little in and of itself (in addition to the "news cycle" loss noted above). McCain has been touting Palin as a "maverick" that will clean up Washington with him. An independent investigator whose findings were endorsed 12-0 by a bi-partisan committee found that Palin violated the trust of the people of Alaska and violated ethics laws by inappropriately pressuring an official to fire an employee. Palin was saved a little by the fact that record showed that there were independent reasons why she might have fired the guy--so she was let off the hook for the firing. But she was NOT let off the hook for the unethical pressure on the guy to fire an employee. That action was found to be a violation of the state's ethics laws (some news reports are inaccurately reporting that she was found not to have violated the law, but what they misunderstand is that she was found not to have violated the law only in regard to her firing of the official--she WAS found to have violated the law in regard to the unethical pressure on that official prior to his firing--a subtle but important distinction that as usual was missed by many in the media because they are lazy, sloppy and not too bright).

Independents will have one more reason to question McCain's judgment about picking Palin, and the message about Palin being a fresh face in Washington is destroyed.

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Thatcher:

New Diageo/Hotline Tracker

LV - Obama 50 - McCain 40

T

____________________

honuificus:

I don't agree the Troopergate scandal won't do any harm . . . after 8 years of cronyism and stretching the limits of executive power any candidate who calls herself a "reformer," but uses the office to launch personal vendettas, is highly suspect! It reeks of politics as usual. I am an Obama supporter and I think the polls will eventually tighten but McCain's only shot of pulling off a victory is offer a new plan for America. After two debates and seeing Obama on the national scene for over two years, the American electorate isn't buying the "this guy can't be trusted" thing. Here is a great post I found today on the Huffington Post . . .
Great presidents are made great by horrible circumstances combined with character, temperament and intelligence. Like firemen, cops, doctors or soldiers, presidents need a crisis to shine.

Obama is one of the most intelligent presidential aspirants to ever step forward in American history. The likes of his intellectual capabilities have not been surpassed in public life since the Founding Fathers put pen to paper. His personal character is also solid gold. Take heart, America: we have the leader for our times.

I say this as a white, former life-long Republican. I say this as the proud father of a Marine. I say this as just another American watching his pension evaporate along with the stock market! I speak as someone who knows it's time to forget party loyalty, ideology and pride and put the country first. I say this as someone happy to be called a fool for going out on a limb and declaring that, 1) Obama will win, and 2) he is going to be amongst the greatest of American presidents.

Obama is our last best chance. He's worth laying it all on the line for.

This is a man who in the age of greed took the high road of community service. This is the good father and husband. This is the humble servant. This is the patient teacher. This is the scholar statesman. This is the man of deep Christian faith.

Good stories about Obama abound; from his personal relationship with his Secret Service agents (he invites them into his home to watch sports, and shoots hoops with them) to the story about how, more than twenty years ago, while standing in the check-in line at an airport, Obama paid a $100 baggage surcharge for a stranger who was broke and stuck. (Obama was virtually penniless himself in those days.) Years later after he became a senator, that stranger recognized Obama's picture and wrote to him to thank him. She received a kindly note back from the senator. (The story only surfaced because the person, who lives in Norway, told a local newspaper after Obama ran for the presidency. The paper published a photograph of this lady proudly displaying Senator Obama's letter.)

Where many leaders are two-faced; publicly kindly but privately feared and/or hated by people closest to them, Obama is consistent in the way he treats people, consistently kind and personally humble. He lives by the code that those who lead must serve. He believes that. He lives it. He lived it long before he was in the public eye.

Obama puts service ahead of ideology. He also knows that to win politically you need to be tough. He can be. He has been. This is a man who does what works, rather than scoring ideological points. In other words he is the quintessential non-ideological pragmatic American. He will (thank God!) disappoint ideologues and purists of the left and the right.

Obama has a reservoir of personal physical courage that is unmatched in presidential history. Why unmatched? Because as the first black contender for the presidency who will win, Obama, and all the rest of us, know that he is in great physical danger from the seemingly unlimited reserve of unhinged racial hatred, and just plain unhinged ignorant hatred, that swirls in the bowels of our wounded and sinful country. By stepping forward to lead, Obama has literally put his life on the line for all of us in a way no white candidate ever has had to do. (And we all know how dangerous the presidency has been even for white presidents.)

Nice stories or even unparalleled courage isn't the only point. The greater point about Obama is that the midst of our worldwide financial meltdown, an expanding (and losing) war in Afghanistan, trying to extricate our country from a wrong and stupidly mistaken ruinously expensive war in Iraq, our mounting and crushing national debt, awaiting the next (and inevitable) al Qaeda attack on our homeland, watching our schools decline to Third World levels of incompetence, facing a general loss of confidence in the government that has been exacerbated by the Republicans doing all they can to undermine our government's capabilities and programs... President Obama will take on the leadership of our country at a make or break time of historic proportions. He faces not one but dozens of crisis, each big enough to define any presidency in better times.

As luck, fate or divine grace would have it (depending on one's personal theology) Obama is blessedly, dare I say uniquely, well-suited to our dire circumstances. Obama is a person with hands-on community service experience, deep connections to top economic advisers from the renowned University of Chicago where he taught law, and a middle-class background that gives him an abiding knowledgeable empathy with the rest of us. As the son of a single mother, who has worked his way up with merit and brains, recipient of top-notch academic scholarships, the peer-selected editor of the Harvard Law Review and, in three giant political steps to state office, national office and now the presidency, Obama clearly has the wit and drive to lead.

Obama is the sober voice of reason at a time of unreason. He is the fellow keeping his head while all around him are panicking. He is the healing presence at a time of national division and strife. He is also new enough to the political process so that he doesn't suffer from the terminally jaded cynicism, the seen-it-all-before syndrome afflicting most politicians in Washington. In that regard we Americans lucked out. It's as if having despaired of our political process we picked a name from the phone book to lead us and that person turned out to be a very man we needed.

Obama brings a healing and uplifting spiritual quality to our politics at the very time when our worst enemy is fear. For eight years we've been ruled by a stunted fear-filled mediocrity of a little liar who has expanded his power on the basis of creating fear in others. Fearless Obama is the cure. He speaks a litany of hope rather than a litany of terror.

As we have watched Obama respond in a quiet reasoned manner to crisis after crisis, in both the way he has responded after being attacked and lied about in the 2008 campaign season, to his reasoned response to our multiplying national crises, what we see is the spirit of a trusted family doctor with a great bedside manner. Obama is perfectly suited to hold our hand and lead us through some very tough times. The word panic is not in the Obama dictionary.

America is fighting its "Armageddon" in one fearful heart at a time. A brilliant leader with the mild manner of an old-time matter-of-fact country doctor soothing a frightened child is just what we need. The fact that our "doctor" is a black man leading a hitherto white-ruled nation out of the mess of its own making is all the sweeter and raises the Obama story to that of moral allegory.

Obama brings a moral clarity to his leadership reserved for those who have had to work for everything they've gotten and had to do twice as well as the person standing next to them because of the color of their skin. His experience of succeeding in spite of his color, social background and prejudice could have been embittering or one that fostered a spiritual rebirth of forgiveness and enlightenment. Obama radiates the calm inner peace of the spirit of forgiveness.

Speaking as a believing Christian I see the hand of a merciful God in Obama's candidacy. The biblical metaphors abound. The stone the builder rejected is become the cornerstone... the last shall be first... he that would gain his life must first lose it... the meek shall inherit the earth...

For my secular friends I'll allow that we may have just been extraordinarily lucky! Either way America wins.

Only a brilliant man, with the spirit of a preacher and the humble heart of a kindly family doctor can lead us now. We are afraid, out of ideas, and worst of all out of hope. Obama is the cure. And we Americans have it in us to rise to the occasion. We will. We're about to enter one of the most frightening periods of American history. Our country has rarely faced more uncertainty. This is the time for greatness. We have a great leader. We must be a great people backing him, fighting for him, sacrificing for a cause greater than ourselves.

A hundred years from now Obama's portrait will be placed next to that of George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt. Long before that we'll be telling our children and grandchildren that we stepped out in faith and voted for a young black man who stood up and led our country back from the brink of an abyss. We'll tell them about the power of love, faith and hope. We'll tell them about the power of creativity combined with humility and intellectual brilliance. We'll tell them that President Obama gave us the gift of regaining our faith in our country. We'll tell them that we all stood up and pitched in and won the day. We'll tell them that President Obama restored our standing in the world. We'll tell them that by the time he left office our schools were on the mend, our economy booming, that we'd become a nation filled with green energy alternatives and were leading the world away from dependence on carbon-based destruction. We'll tell them that because of President Obama's example and leadership the integrity of the family was restored, divorce rates went down, more fathers took responsibility for their children, and abortion rates fell dramatically as women, families and children were cared for through compassionate social programs that worked. We'll tell them about how the gap closed between the middle class and the super rich, how we won health care for all, how crime rates fell, how bad wars were brought to an honorable conclusion. We'll tell them that when we were attacked again by al Qaeda, how reason prevailed and the response was smart, tough, measured and effective, and our civil rights were protected even in times of crisis...

We'll tell them that we were part of the inexplicably blessed miracle that happened to our country those many years ago in 2008 when a young black man was sent by God, fate or luck to save our country. We'll tell them that it's good to live in America where anything is possible. Yes we will.

Frank Schaeffer is the author of CRAZY FOR GOD-How I Grew Up As One Of The Elect, Helped Found The Religious Right, And Lived To Take All (Or Almost All) Of It Back. Now in paperback.

____________________

honuificus:

I don't agree the Troopergate scandal won't do any harm . . . after 8 years of cronyism and stretching the limits of executive power any candidate who calls herself a "reformer," but uses the office to launch personal vendettas, is highly suspect! It reeks of politics as usual. I am an Obama supporter and I think the polls will eventually tighten but McCain's only shot of pulling off a victory is offer a new plan for America. After two debates and seeing Obama on the national scene for over two years, the American electorate isn't buying the "this guy can't be trusted" thing. Here is a great post I found today on the Huffington Post . . .
Great presidents are made great by horrible circumstances combined with character, temperament and intelligence. Like firemen, cops, doctors or soldiers, presidents need a crisis to shine.

Obama is one of the most intelligent presidential aspirants to ever step forward in American history. The likes of his intellectual capabilities have not been surpassed in public life since the Founding Fathers put pen to paper. His personal character is also solid gold. Take heart, America: we have the leader for our times.

I say this as a white, former life-long Republican. I say this as the proud father of a Marine. I say this as just another American watching his pension evaporate along with the stock market! I speak as someone who knows it's time to forget party loyalty, ideology and pride and put the country first. I say this as someone happy to be called a fool for going out on a limb and declaring that, 1) Obama will win, and 2) he is going to be amongst the greatest of American presidents.

Obama is our last best chance. He's worth laying it all on the line for.

This is a man who in the age of greed took the high road of community service. This is the good father and husband. This is the humble servant. This is the patient teacher. This is the scholar statesman. This is the man of deep Christian faith.

Good stories about Obama abound; from his personal relationship with his Secret Service agents (he invites them into his home to watch sports, and shoots hoops with them) to the story about how, more than twenty years ago, while standing in the check-in line at an airport, Obama paid a $100 baggage surcharge for a stranger who was broke and stuck. (Obama was virtually penniless himself in those days.) Years later after he became a senator, that stranger recognized Obama's picture and wrote to him to thank him. She received a kindly note back from the senator. (The story only surfaced because the person, who lives in Norway, told a local newspaper after Obama ran for the presidency. The paper published a photograph of this lady proudly displaying Senator Obama's letter.)

Where many leaders are two-faced; publicly kindly but privately feared and/or hated by people closest to them, Obama is consistent in the way he treats people, consistently kind and personally humble. He lives by the code that those who lead must serve. He believes that. He lives it. He lived it long before he was in the public eye.

Obama puts service ahead of ideology. He also knows that to win politically you need to be tough. He can be. He has been. This is a man who does what works, rather than scoring ideological points. In other words he is the quintessential non-ideological pragmatic American. He will (thank God!) disappoint ideologues and purists of the left and the right.

Obama has a reservoir of personal physical courage that is unmatched in presidential history. Why unmatched? Because as the first black contender for the presidency who will win, Obama, and all the rest of us, know that he is in great physical danger from the seemingly unlimited reserve of unhinged racial hatred, and just plain unhinged ignorant hatred, that swirls in the bowels of our wounded and sinful country. By stepping forward to lead, Obama has literally put his life on the line for all of us in a way no white candidate ever has had to do. (And we all know how dangerous the presidency has been even for white presidents.)

Nice stories or even unparalleled courage isn't the only point. The greater point about Obama is that the midst of our worldwide financial meltdown, an expanding (and losing) war in Afghanistan, trying to extricate our country from a wrong and stupidly mistaken ruinously expensive war in Iraq, our mounting and crushing national debt, awaiting the next (and inevitable) al Qaeda attack on our homeland, watching our schools decline to Third World levels of incompetence, facing a general loss of confidence in the government that has been exacerbated by the Republicans doing all they can to undermine our government's capabilities and programs... President Obama will take on the leadership of our country at a make or break time of historic proportions. He faces not one but dozens of crisis, each big enough to define any presidency in better times.

As luck, fate or divine grace would have it (depending on one's personal theology) Obama is blessedly, dare I say uniquely, well-suited to our dire circumstances. Obama is a person with hands-on community service experience, deep connections to top economic advisers from the renowned University of Chicago where he taught law, and a middle-class background that gives him an abiding knowledgeable empathy with the rest of us. As the son of a single mother, who has worked his way up with merit and brains, recipient of top-notch academic scholarships, the peer-selected editor of the Harvard Law Review and, in three giant political steps to state office, national office and now the presidency, Obama clearly has the wit and drive to lead.

Obama is the sober voice of reason at a time of unreason. He is the fellow keeping his head while all around him are panicking. He is the healing presence at a time of national division and strife. He is also new enough to the political process so that he doesn't suffer from the terminally jaded cynicism, the seen-it-all-before syndrome afflicting most politicians in Washington. In that regard we Americans lucked out. It's as if having despaired of our political process we picked a name from the phone book to lead us and that person turned out to be a very man we needed.

Obama brings a healing and uplifting spiritual quality to our politics at the very time when our worst enemy is fear. For eight years we've been ruled by a stunted fear-filled mediocrity of a little liar who has expanded his power on the basis of creating fear in others. Fearless Obama is the cure. He speaks a litany of hope rather than a litany of terror.

As we have watched Obama respond in a quiet reasoned manner to crisis after crisis, in both the way he has responded after being attacked and lied about in the 2008 campaign season, to his reasoned response to our multiplying national crises, what we see is the spirit of a trusted family doctor with a great bedside manner. Obama is perfectly suited to hold our hand and lead us through some very tough times. The word panic is not in the Obama dictionary.

America is fighting its "Armageddon" in one fearful heart at a time. A brilliant leader with the mild manner of an old-time matter-of-fact country doctor soothing a frightened child is just what we need. The fact that our "doctor" is a black man leading a hitherto white-ruled nation out of the mess of its own making is all the sweeter and raises the Obama story to that of moral allegory.

Obama brings a moral clarity to his leadership reserved for those who have had to work for everything they've gotten and had to do twice as well as the person standing next to them because of the color of their skin. His experience of succeeding in spite of his color, social background and prejudice could have been embittering or one that fostered a spiritual rebirth of forgiveness and enlightenment. Obama radiates the calm inner peace of the spirit of forgiveness.

Speaking as a believing Christian I see the hand of a merciful God in Obama's candidacy. The biblical metaphors abound. The stone the builder rejected is become the cornerstone... the last shall be first... he that would gain his life must first lose it... the meek shall inherit the earth...

For my secular friends I'll allow that we may have just been extraordinarily lucky! Either way America wins.

Only a brilliant man, with the spirit of a preacher and the humble heart of a kindly family doctor can lead us now. We are afraid, out of ideas, and worst of all out of hope. Obama is the cure. And we Americans have it in us to rise to the occasion. We will. We're about to enter one of the most frightening periods of American history. Our country has rarely faced more uncertainty. This is the time for greatness. We have a great leader. We must be a great people backing him, fighting for him, sacrificing for a cause greater than ourselves.

A hundred years from now Obama's portrait will be placed next to that of George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt. Long before that we'll be telling our children and grandchildren that we stepped out in faith and voted for a young black man who stood up and led our country back from the brink of an abyss. We'll tell them about the power of love, faith and hope. We'll tell them about the power of creativity combined with humility and intellectual brilliance. We'll tell them that President Obama gave us the gift of regaining our faith in our country. We'll tell them that we all stood up and pitched in and won the day. We'll tell them that President Obama restored our standing in the world. We'll tell them that by the time he left office our schools were on the mend, our economy booming, that we'd become a nation filled with green energy alternatives and were leading the world away from dependence on carbon-based destruction. We'll tell them that because of President Obama's example and leadership the integrity of the family was restored, divorce rates went down, more fathers took responsibility for their children, and abortion rates fell dramatically as women, families and children were cared for through compassionate social programs that worked. We'll tell them about how the gap closed between the middle class and the super rich, how we won health care for all, how crime rates fell, how bad wars were brought to an honorable conclusion. We'll tell them that when we were attacked again by al Qaeda, how reason prevailed and the response was smart, tough, measured and effective, and our civil rights were protected even in times of crisis...

We'll tell them that we were part of the inexplicably blessed miracle that happened to our country those many years ago in 2008 when a young black man was sent by God, fate or luck to save our country. We'll tell them that it's good to live in America where anything is possible. Yes we will.

Frank Schaeffer is the author of CRAZY FOR GOD-How I Grew Up As One Of The Elect, Helped Found The Religious Right, And Lived To Take All (Or Almost All) Of It Back. Now in paperback.

____________________

jonny87:

reassuring to see the trackers go this way

____________________

McBabieIsNoGood:

Troopergate is RELEVANT, Trosen.
The McBarbie campiagn tries to act like Americans don't know Obama when the truth is, American's don't know what Barbie has been doing up there in the middle of nowhere (Alaska) and now they've been told what: Abusing her power as Gov. to do whatever she pleases. The McBarbie ticket sounds more and more like Bush-Cheney all over again. Pretty relevant if you ask me!

____________________

johncoz:

Over at NRO, The Corner is in disarray. Money quote from Lopez:

"Please, Senator McCain, help us help you!"

____________________

gregory:

The McCain campaign's big mistake was that they ANNOUNCED their intention to go negative to shift the conversation away from the economy. The Obama campaign must've plotzed over the gift that gave them. Lee Atwater is shuddering in his grave. And Troopergate only hurts in that it takes up space on the evening news. True Believers will give her a pass, the rest of America has already decided she's not up to the job and aren't voting for McCain in part because of his poor judgment in choosing her.

____________________

Oldy75:

The important part of my instructions to Rass was to stay on the low side of Gallup and Hotline, this keeping the right believing he is on their side. Oh wait I have said too much.

____________________

Rames1980:

Isn't Rasmussen 52-45 today, and not 50-45?

____________________

Trosen:

Rames yes.. curiously Pollster has had a habit lately of posting headlines that look better for McCain than the actual #s in the respective polls indicate. I think it's a transparent attempt to keep the few McCain supporters around who frequent this site. =)

____________________

carl29:

Rames1980,

Think about as a "consideration" to boomshak and the rest of McCain lunatics :-)!!!!!

____________________

Observer:

Palin certainly had good reason to fire Moneghan for his activities quite independently of the issue of the brother-in-law and I think a lot of Governors might have shown him the door much sooner. And of course legally she could fire Moneghan for no reason at all. I think she has said she offered him another job which he declined. Moneghan should no longer be an issue.

I agree that once Palin became Governor she should have steered away from any involvement in the case of her former brother-in-law. But from what I read he was very fortunate not to have been fired by his bosses. I think he is still employed and Palin's involvement never included ordering anybody to fire him. She did wrong by getting involved but I don't see any wider implications.

The case does involve how you handle the case of somebody who has threatened to shoot your father so I don't think anybody who reads up on it will have anything but sympathy for Palin and her family. I don't think this has implications for McCain and his judgement. It's not like McCain has chosen an unrepentant terrorist to work with him is it? Now that would be very poor judgement.

____________________

carl29:

"It's not like McCain has chosen an unrepentant terrorist to work with him is it?"

Yes, like the very Republican/Reagan-soldier/McCain-supporter Ms. Leonore Annenberg, the chairwoman and president of the Annenberg Foundation, WHO HIRED Bill Ayers to serve in the board OF HER organization. How about that, my friend?

____________________

Dana Adini:

diago/hotline obama + 10 O 50 M 40

____________________

modrat:

So happy the latest McCain tactic (there is no McCain Strategy) of bashing Obama is backfiring. The nimrods at those rallies are getting some real bad press.

It is time the republicans take a good hard look at themselves and resue the once proud party. They look like a bunch of scared, small-minded people.

That one guy, "I'm about to have a child -- applause. But we are afraid to bring him into an Obama lead nation..." Give me a freakin break.

____________________

johncoz:

@Observer

"I don't think anybody who reads up on it will have anything but sympathy for Palin"

No one's going to read the report. I doubt that Obama's campaign will even refer to it -- they don't need to.

But it is a devastating blow to the McCain campaign. The straight talk express hasn't just lost a wheel, it has been derailed as a result of its own incompetence -- starting with the selection of this nitwit demagogue as VP candidate.

If Palin has nothing to hide, let her hold a press conference!

____________________

TJIRISH34:

Trosen shhhhhh... That comment about palin's boobs might help McCain.

____________________

Observer:

carl29 said: "Yes, like the very Republican/Reagan-soldier/McCain-supporter Ms. Leonore Annenberg, the chairwoman and president of the Annenberg Foundation, WHO HIRED Bill Ayers to serve in the board OF HER organization. How about that, my friend?"

I don't think she would make a suitable president either. Neither do I think the people who made Bill Ayres a professor are anything but idiots, whether they were Democrats or Republicans or both.

____________________

TJIRISH34:

By that I mean McCain might get votes if he makes that offer. McCain already used Palin once. Why not use her physical assets for votes.

____________________

TJIRISH34:

modrat, I really believe that guy on his knees making those comments was showboating to get his 15 minutes. If you watch McCain's reaction you can tell he thought same thing. McCain walked away from him and was like "jeez buddy get the hell up."

____________________

carl29:

johncoz,

I totally agree with you. The report will not do any harm because it is already clear that Palin is a drag on McCain's ticket. Can the wound be more profound? I don't know. She is popular just among the base, which couldn't care less if she did or didn't do something. These type of issues do damage with cross-over voters and Independents, and my friends, Gov. Palin has done herself enough damage to turn those voters off. So, the report is just the cherry on the dessert with Ind. and cross-over Democrats, but has Gov. Palin more terrain to lose with those voters? Hard to imagine, but you never know, my friend :-)!!!

____________________

zotz:

Observer-
"Moneghan should no longer be an issue."

Exactly right. The issue is Palin, not Monegan. For example, does she believe that state employees deserve due process? If the answer is yes, she didn't show it in this case.
Is Palin vindictive? Since firing the state trooper would do nothing to protect her family we can only conclude that the motive was revenge. Furthermore, in comparison with Obama's relationship with Ayers, the conclusion that Palin abused her power came from a bipartisan board of inquery authorized by the state government with oversight from the courts. This is a slightly higher level of jurisdiction than the people accusing Obama, who are a pack of hate-mongering right wingnuts (like you?).

____________________

Observer:

I don't like Obama for a number of reasons and much prefer McCain but I do concede that there are good, even very good reason to change to the Democrats and have a new round of throwing the rascals out. The best reason is I think Health Care.

If the Democrats are in full control after the election then universal health care, which I agree with Obama should be a right, has to be implemented before the 2010 elections.

If Obama and the Democrats do not do this then they are just playing the usual political game. I hope they do do it. The state of the economy should not be an excuse to put it off. It was introduced in the UK by the first post war government after WWII when the UK was an economic basket case.

____________________

carl29:

Observer,

That is your opinion and you are totally entitled to it :-)

____________________

carl29:

Observer,

Again, your opinion, your vote :-)

____________________

johncoz:

Hear! Hear! on health care. The Obama plan, from memory, is costed at $50 billion. Pulling out of Iraq would cover this in under 6 months. I think his plan does not go far enough, but it is probably as much as the American public can stomach.

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TJIRISH34:

Johncoz, I just read the AP story on Palin. What that troopergate tells me is Alaskan politics is not exactly the place to breed a VP candidate. That troopergate sounds like the goings on in a small town rather than a state. More importantly it confirms to me that Todd Palin is what Cheny is to Bush. Always in the background, wields alot more power than he let's on. The stories about him sitting in on Government meetings. He gave what? One interview that I saw with that Greta what's her name. "Should I call you first dude?" Todd Palins looks to me to be the "brains" behind Sarah Palin. They use their kids as props. I heard a story from the National Enquier. Yea I know the enquierer. I used laugh at them until alot of dirt they dug up ended up being truthful. Anyway the Enquierer claims that after Palin was picked as VP. Todd and Sarah tried to get her daughter and that young guy to get married. To her credit Sarah's daughter refused to do it. So they then released story at convention. Before anyone dogs me for spreading rumor. I'd like to say if that story is true. Then I have alot of admiration for Sarah Palin's daughter. I am sure her daughter like most teens gets online. I wonder what she and others in family really think about what is being said about her mother.

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zotz:

"It was introduced in the UK by the first post war government after WWII when the UK was an economic basket case."

...and the Brits were getting aid from the US Marshall Plan.

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Observer:


zotz says: "This is a slightly higher level of jurisdiction than the people accusing Obama, who are a pack of hate-mongering right wingnuts (like you?)."

I hate terrorists. Terrorists are people who try to terrorise others to achieve their political objectives, people like the IRA, Hamas, OBL and Bill Ayres. They set bombs, fly into buildings, organise suicide bombings not simply to kill people but to put the fear of death into those who are still alive.

I concede that people can change. They can confess their crimes, apologise and even reach peace agreements (e.g. the IRA). I can respect that. I do not have an ounce of respect for, tolerance for or anything but hatred for unrepentant terrorists like Bill Ayres. I have no respect for anybody who promotes or in any way supports making such evil people part of mainstream life in even on major city.

For many years certain parts of the US population were tolerant of the IRA. Such tolerance and financial support led directly to the death, maiming and terrorising of many innocent people. I did think with 9/11 that at last the whole USA would 'get it' as far as terrorism is concerned. I am appalled to see I am wrong.

I can understand that there are many reasons why voters would still prefer Obama, despite Ayres. But such people should in my view still regard the association with Ayres as a black mark against Obama and recognise that they support him despite this rather than simply proclaim it means nothing. It means a lot.

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Paul:

Yet another intentional out of context charge (unlimited, unconditional abortion) by Palin against Obama - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/11/palin-on-obama-unconditio_n_133858.html

Apparently, the social conservatives are fed up with the Ayers stuff, and they want McCain to move on to abortion now. That will be Palin's stump speech I assume for a while.

So McCain who has been regurgitating the conservative red meat will now move to another super hot button issue --- so the crowds can juiced up once again. How long before McCain has to calm them down? ... or perhaps he will stay away from the abortion issue.

What is McCain going to offer at the third debate?

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KipTin:

Try sticking to the facts... carl29... who stated "Yes, like the very Republican/Reagan-soldier/McCain-supporter Ms. Leonore Annenberg, the chairwoman and president of the Annenberg Foundation, WHO HIRED Bill Ayers to serve in the board OF HER organization."

FACT: Bill Ayers was NOT HIRED by Mrs. Annenberg and the "Chicago Anneberg Challenge" was NOT HER ORGANIZATION. Bill Ayers founded an organization that became known as the Chicago Annebergy Challenge after he successfully wrote a grant request and received a "challenge" grant from the Annenberg Foundation. The Annenberg funds were to be used to garner additional funds (ergo the term "challenge" and the title of Ayers' organization) for Ayers' project. Obama was selected to be on Ayers' board and even served as Chairperson/Executive signing off on expenditures.


____________________

johncoz:

@observer

Get a grip. The Obama campaign is not going to talk about McCain's associations with assorted fascists, anti-Semites and criminals over his decades in public service. There is no evidence that he actually supported any of their morally criminal agendas, but he did serve on boards and committees with such people.

Guilt by association is a disgusting Rovian tactic, and we should repudiate it whenever it rears its ugly head.

The future of America is at stake. Think carefully.

____________________

carl29:

KipTin: This is from factcheck.org, not an Obama website, right?

According to FACTCHECK.ORG:

"McCain says in an Internet ad that the two "ran a radical 'education' foundation" in Chicago. But the supposedly "radical" group was supported by a Republican governor and included on its board prominent local civic leaders, including one former Nixon administration official who has given $1,500 to McCain's campaign this year. Education Week says the group's work "reflected mainstream thinking" among school reformers. The group was the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, started by a $49 million grant from the Annenberg Foundation, which was established by the publisher Walter Annenberg, a prominent Republican whose widow, Leonore, is a contributor to the McCain campaign."

Again, from FACTCHECK.ORG, my friend :-)!!!

____________________

johncoz:

@KipTin

No-one cares, except those who decided long ago they would *never* vote for Obama.

Get over it.

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zotz:

Observer-
"I do not have an ounce of respect for, tolerance for or anything but hatred for unrepentant terrorists like Bill Ayres."

Why do you assume that Obama knew he was an unrepentant terrorist? Most of the Chicago establishment accepted him. They even made him Citizen of the Year! Ayers himself has denounced terrorism. Ayers crimes should be seen in context. The anger that the Viet Nam war caused led many young people to falsely conclude that violence was justified. Violence can do that. McCain himself has said, "I hate gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."
Yes, he was tortured but what about the people that had to live under the bombs he dropped? Why do you give McCain a pass when he probably did kill many people. Or do you believe that none of those people were civilians? If you believe that then you are far more naive than I am. Morality is complex, not simple. People that think it is simple, like McCain, are the ones that start wars like the Iraq war.

That is why I support Obama.

____________________

Thatcher:

KipTin -

If that were the case - you would be splitting hairs.

Obviously - the Annenbergs would not grant their money to an organization whose board members and mission they would not agree with. The fact that Reagan ambassadors and staunch Republicans, the Annenbergs, were willing to forgive and forget whatever Ayers may have done earlier in his life should mean something. That other Republicans served on that board should mean something.

If you are saying the Annenbergs had bad judgment in granting money to this project of which Ayers was a part - then you must use their history of bad judgment when looking at Leonore Annenberg's support of McCain's presidency (bad judgment then, bad judgment now). Because by your own recognition - bad judgment 20 years ago means bad judgment today (at least that's how you are viewing Obama).

____________________

Basil:

I've just spent 3 days talking with students at the University of Oregon. While I know it's a liberal pace (Eugene keeps electing rep Peter deFazio by landslide margins every time), the energy level for Obama is astronomical.

The image of apathetic college voters is, at least in this case, totally wrong. These kids are going to vote in numbers that will make their turnout in 200 and 2004 look like off-years. They know they're making history on Nov. 4, they're excited by Obama/Biden, and they absolutely cannot bear McCain/Palin.

What's more, the U of O students I met are not mindless McCain/Palin haters. The commonest attitude seems to be bemused incredulity at McCain's (and especially Palin's) insane and inept campaign, not the personal hostility so often expressed by Republicans young and old.

Believe it. Eight years of Republican madness and rapacity have ruined the GOP brand with young voters, and the kids are loving every minute of this election.

Obama Tsunami!

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KipTin:

Well... carl29... how does Factcheck.org narrative fit into your previous FALSE statement that Mrs. Annenberg hired Ayers for HER board?

Or don't you understand what a "grant" entails?

------------

And... johncoz... it does not matter who I vote for... I was correcting a FALSE statement with FACTS. I was not defending or promoting anything but the TRUTH.
-------------

Regarding Obama's knowledge about Ayers... If Axlerod had not stated that Obama did not know about Ayers past, then this latest question would have no legs: "When did Obama find out about Ayers' past?"

BTW: Michelle Obama knew about Ayers. She grew up in Chicago, and it has been reported that she worked with Ayers wife in one of her first jobs in a Chicago law firm. So why didn't she clue her boyfriend/husband in?

----------

Ayers wrote a grant request as a University of Chicago professor of education. Foundations do not vet grant requests for security clearance. They may request a resume for project manager but I doubt if Ayers included his bombing activities.

And Mrs. Ayers also does not review and make personal decisions about who gets the grants from the Annenberg Foundation... that is done by staff who are looking to see if the application meets the grant criteria.

And most notably, the grant was for education reform to improve schools in Chicago (albeit Ayers was not successful).

Ayers educational reform theory is very popular among some very liberal educators, but not all educators.... and some do indeed consider it radical. This forum is not a place for that debate.


____________________

Ryguy:

kip, realizing that this story has no legs, and that its only inciting fear and hatred, mccain has dropped the ayers attack. dont you think its time you did too?

____________________

carl29:

KipTin,

My piece from Factcheck.org fits into the narrative that Obama is covered by having served in a board founded with money from Republican/Reagan-soldier/McCain-supporter and along with Republicans, even the Nixon-person-turned-McCain-supporter.

I can see that McCain wanted to make this board sound like a bunch of radical/liberals pushing their radical agenda. However, all those big Conservative names messed up the story line.

At the moment when the American voter hears the names Reagan, Nixon, Conservative, McCain supporters involved with this board, forget it. People will throw those accusation in the trash can. The American electorate at large don't understand how grants work, period. They will be satisfied by hearing that Reagan people, Nixon people, McCain people, and other Republicans were a part of it. This will take the "radical" tag off the board.

The American electorate works on soundbites. In people simplistic minds things will sound like this: Well, that board had Conservative descent people. The money was provided by Reagan people. Reagan people would never give money to people who want to advance a "radical agenda" or those Conservatives/Republicans would have participated in such thing. The fact that Ayers was there working with them means that in fact he is now an acceptable person, even by Republican standards. See?

____________________

KipTin:

FYI... Ryguy... I simply and directly corrected a false statement by carl29.... ergo there is no attack to drop. Learn to read more carefully. It is carl29 who is using the Ayers attack. Maybe you should direct your "suggestion" to her.

---------------

And why are you arguing with yourself... carl29? I corrected your FALSE ERRONEOUS NON-FACTUAL statement and you are DEFLECTING to cover yourself.

And now you are also DEFENDING a non-repentant domestic terrorist as an "acceptable person." I think you are actually digging your hole deeper.

---------

Obamanation is so paranoid that they see "attacks" on Obama with every correction of the facts. It is time to begin factchecking for yourself everything you read and then repeat from the Obamanation blogs.

____________________

carl29:

KipTin,

I am not defending anybody. All I'm saying is that McCain narrative about Obama, Ayers, and the Annenberg Foundation loses "its desired effect" when people hear the names Reagan, Nixon, Republican, McCain supporters involve in the Foundation. Don't get all worked up, my oldie friend. Remember the hot flashes :-)!!!!

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modrat:

@ Basil sez "Believe it. Eight years of Republican madness and rapacity have ruined the GOP brand with young voters"

And old alike. The wingnuts have ruined the party for everyone. They now seem to consist of the 28% of parinoid authority worshippers that Dean made famous.

Thanks for your perspective about UO students.

Modrat UW 91 and WSU 93

____________________

KipTin:

Wow... carl29... I was wondering when you were going to again change the topic to MENOPAUSE.. your refutation of last resort. Please do not let the facts get in your way, and instead attempt to denigrate other posters. Where did you learn in law school that this was a way to win an argument?

P.S. Ironically, whereas I do not have to worry about menopause or symptoms thereof, you will sooner than you anticipate find yourself experiencing "hot flashes." Yes, you will become an older woman.

That will be justifiable kharma for someone who has such a narrow little mind as to think that someone who supported Hillary can only be female. You also disrespect female elders whether real or perceived. Your ageist and sexist bigotry reveals troubling character traits.

____________________

carl29:

KipTin,

Your opinion :-)!!!! Take it easy, don't get agitated.

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