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US: Obama 53, McCain 43 (ABCPost-10/8-11)

Topics: PHome

ABC News / Washington Post
10/8-11/08; 945 registered voters (MOE +/-3%), 766 likely voters (MOE +/- 3.5%)
Mode: Live Telephone Interviews
(ABC story, results; Post story, results)

National
Likely Voters:
Obama 53, McCain 43
(9/27-29: Obama 50, McCain 46)

Registered Voters:
Obama 54, McCain 41
(9/27-29: Obama 49, McCain 45)

 

Comments
boomshak:

OMG! OMG! OMG!

Obama just STEPPED IN IT!

On the campaign trail, a man asked Obama why he was going to raise taxes on him as a small business owner.

Here was Obama's answer:

"I am not trying to harm you personally, but I believe that when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody..."

Wow, just wow.

KARL MARX - "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

Obama just exposed his true motivation - wow.

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jonny87:

he could of phrased that a lil better

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boomshak:

KARL MARX:

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need (or needs) is a slogan popularized by Karl Marx in his 1875 Critique of the Gotha Program.[1] The phrase summarizes the principles that, under a communist system, every person should contribute to society to the best of their ability and consume from society in proportion to their needs, regardless of how much they have contributed. In the Marxist view, such an arrangement will be made possible by the abundance of goods and services that a developed communist society will produce; the idea is that there will be enough to satisfy everyone's needs.[2][3]

BARACK OBAMA:

I am not trying to harm you personally, but I believe that when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody...

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boomshak:

@jonny87:

he could of phrased that a lil better

How? It's what he thinks. It depends if McCain is smart enough to jump on this and run it in ads. If so, this could HURT Obama badly.

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VonnegutIce9:

Boomshak are you ever not in panic mode these days? I think you need to take a break from politics for your own good...

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MasterFramer:

@ Boomshak

10+ for Obama, I'm more than ready and happy to put my share in to improve this country for all Americans. The rule of selfishness is over...

I know many other well to do ready to contribute and pay their share, esspecially after the last 8 of raping the middle class.

Wake up Bookshak, Obama will be elected, might as well get used to it now.

Landslide in '08 GoBama!

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boomshak:

@VonnegutIce9:

What do you think of Obama's "spreading the wealth" comment?

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ThatMarvelousApe:

I think boom is the living embodiment of panic. If my candidate were facing a landslide loss, I would just disengage and decompress, but boom seems insistent on setting himself up for massive disappointment.

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ThatMarvelousApe:

boomshak, both Republicans and Democrats support limited degrees of redistributive policy. It doesn't make them communists, but I would welcome McCain abandoning all such proposals of his own as it would help Obama get over that 500+ EV mark pretty quickly.

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jonny87:

if he could im sure he'd say something more like...we need to reinvest in america and grow the economy from the bottom up which will will be beneficial to you and every other american.

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MasterFramer:

@Boomshak

If you really think comparing Obama to Marx is going to get McCain votes you are delusional. Sorry but it's true...

GoBama '08

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muckinello:

I am in the upper percentile of the tax rate and I don't find anything wrong with spreading the wealth. We rise and fall as a nation. As one of the best quotes in one of Obamna's you tube videos "I want a nation for everybody, not a nation for only myself"

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BOOMFAIL:

I have an idea boombatty. Why not have everyone making under $250,000 who is against Obama's tax plan (basically McShame supporters)refuse the tax cut that is coming to 95% of the country? They can send it back, since they don't believe in fairness.

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DCDemocrat:

A problem that Republicans have in 2008 is that its candidate believes that the philosophical conditions that founded its success in the 1980s still persist in the country. The collapse of Communism a generation ago, dramatic demographic shifts in the population, and the resounding failure of the Bush administration have made comments such as Obama's cited above in this thread have made comments that are anathema to a core constituency of the Republican Party safe among the general populace.

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ThatMarvelousApe:

Exactly DCDem. The reason McCain is heading for a landslide loss is that the GOP is dominated by two tribes of ideological extremism that are not reflective of the American populace at large. Even McCain's own platform contradicts the Goldwater-esque economic policy advocated by the fringe right.

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decided:

boomshak

- Obama did not say that. you lied.

- Even if he did, the notion that he is a communist can just come from some McCarthyist style blind ideologist like you. Your views are so narrow minded that one gets the impression that you are susceptible to fascism.

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Indiana4Obama:

Redistribution of wealth is a GOOD idea for everyone. I'm not sure why Rebubs are so scared of the idea, other than it brings up irrational fears of Marxism, Communism, Socialism, all those "isms" that fearful conservatives get all spooked by for no reason.

In the 90s when the middle class prospered the country prospered. We need a strong market, low jobless rates, and good paying jobs for as many people as possible...with strong, reasonable regulations that prevent harmful greed and manipulation.

A fair tax code is a reasonable method for a free society to encourage shared prosperity. And the American people certainly are starting to realize this.

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Frenchie_75:


@boomshak

You already have some sort of socialism/communism going on...you know it starts when people are not free any more of their choices knowingly or unknowingly...When americans all eat in the same dinners (same fast food all over the place), go to the same mega stores (home depot, wallmart and so on), all drive the same type of car (sedan, SUV...) when all cities look alike from New Jersey to Oregon, one should wonder where is the choice? you think you do but you dont...Think about that one.

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nomorerepubs:

John Galt has left the building

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Tom:

Hey boomshak, I see you are up early.

Speaking of trolls, does anyone know what happened to all the Clinton trolls that infested this place during the spring?

The last few days must have given you a severe stomachache. This poll couldn't have helped any. Most elections, especially national ones, rarely have the winning candidate winning over 60% and the loser at 40%. I find it interesting that in most of the recent polls, McCain has been hovering just above that 40% mark. Heck, even Mondale got 40.8% of the vote when Reagan mopped the floor with him.

As for this poll, this seems to be very good news for Obama. Even if the undecideds in this poll break 75-25 for McCain, Obama still wins by 54-46. (As a side note, I remember seeing a Mondale-Ferraro bumper sticker stuck to the back of a stop sign on the campus where I went to college. It was partially removed, but still recognizable ten years after that election.)

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oicu:

@boom:

I take it you think the Apostles were communists, too. Acts 4 says:

34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

People who actually know something about Marxism understand that Marx was mocking Christianity in the manifesto by echoing those lines.

So your reaction might just as well have been "OMG, Obama is proposing a Christian program!"

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obamaownsboomcrapnkiptin:

boomshak:
@jonny87:

he could of phrased that a lil better

How? It's what he thinks. It depends if McCain is smart enough to jump on this and run it in ads. If so, this could HURT Obama badly.
/////////////////////////////////
ya that will really hurt obama cosidering 95% of us are gonna get that money, what part of the people making uder 250 a yr are sick of the wealthy getting all the breaks does your peanut brain not understand boomcrap?

To the middle class that statement will bring people closer to obama!

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obamaownsboomcrapnkiptin:

oh by the way boomcrap, I was at the clinton/biden rally yesterday in scranton and wait till you see the polls swing in the battlegrounds now that the Clintons are campaining hard this month with obama!

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zoot:

Boomshak:

Seems to me that this issue was decided when the 16th Amendment passed. Any tax is redistributive by hypothesis. We live in a complex society, with enormous infrastructure and societal costs: highways, bridges, national security, etc. Unless you want to bury yourself in some Idaho panhandle commune, you've got to pay something.

The argument isn't over bearing this expense, it's what goes into the expense. Essentially, the GOP draws the line when you migrate from infrastructure expense to social expense. The beauty of supply side economics (if you're a true believer) is that minimizing taxation's direct impact on capital inevitably increases prosperity, thereby avoiding the need for government to bear any social cost.

Most of the rest of us believe that social cost is both an ethical and a practical obligation. We dislike waste as much as you do. We just define 'waste' a little differently, and so does Obama. If he's elected, one measure of Obama's success will be if he pisses the Daily Kos readership off as much as he pisses you off.

Anyway, it looks like you're in for an unpleasant November 4th. Don't take it personally. Politics is cyclical, not some Hegelian progression towards an ultimate truth. Popular will fluctuates, depending on prevalent circumstances. 2008 is a lot different than 1980.

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Mark Blumenthal:

Just curious, does anyone have a comment that's remotely on the topic of the poll, it's results or methods?

Meanwhile, feel free to challenge each others ideas, but if you repeatedly hurl abuse and personal insults at each other (or choose screen names that does the same) you will be banned. As always, please email us to report offensive comments.

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drdr:

I think the 90% wrong track number that goes along with this poll is also quite revealing. As long as Sen. McCain is associated with the Republican party and Pres. Bush, he will do poorly in the polls given the overwhelming desire for change expressed by this wrong track number.

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OneAngryDwarf:

@boomsarah

Your lack of understaning on economics, history, and political science is STUNNING for someone who posts so often.

On the bright side I found a quote you should put on all of your posts.

Some people say it is better to appear foolish than open your mouth and remove all doubt. I say if it is already thought then you have nothing to lose. Dane Helmers

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wakeup:

If the market rallies this poll will be meaningless.

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Shannon,Dallas,Texas:

@boomshak

McCain shot his wad on ads focusing on Obama . . . starting with the Britney Spears Paris Hilton celebrity ads. He's not going to get a return on investment unless he puts out more ads about his plan for the economy. Sorry Buddy.

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Shannon,Dallas,Texas:

@wakeup

I wouldn't bet on it. The most devasting numbers for John McCain these days are the job report numbers. He can't turn the page on the economy unless people feel secure about their jobs. Sorry, my fellow American, but employment isn't going to pick up in the near future. We're likely to see the market rally for a week or two. Then, it's going to head down again before the beginning of November when investors are going to anticipate weak economic indicators. Sorry buddy.

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sotonightthatimightsee:

ABC News / Washington Post?


'NUFF SAID!

I'll stick with Rasmussen, thank you very much!

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d3nnisbest:

Boom,

Marxism is a little more complex than a wikipedia entry, my friend.

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m913:

@ Mark Blumenthal

Your warning about childishness on this thread was uniquely mis-timed, coming just after Zoot's comment about "Hegelian progression toward an ultimate truth". Wow! Nice philosophical snap!

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wakeup:

The market is a piece of the polling puzzle. Any indication that the economy is not crashing hurts Obama. Also this is a multi-variabled election, these polls are solid. There is the potential for movement.

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cinnamonape:

"The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

~Adam Smith [not, I believe, a Marxist]

Also it was Teddy Roosevelt that was the first President to really work hard for the Progressive Income Tax after the Supreme Court rescinded one in Cleveland's era. He was the fighter for the Constitutional Amendment that eventually allowed Wilson to implement it.

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AtlantaBill:

good morning all - i'm a new user and a 1st time poster. i've followed this site for a couple of months and could not sit on the sidelines any longer. that "boomshak" guy has such thick skin i convinced myself to join in to see if one additional voice might free him from his extreme right-wing mindset.

i've read so many of the guy's posts that sometime i think i know him and believe me that's one scary thought. i must give him credit though for the clarity of his posts, albeit irrational, and sometimes schizophrenic in their shallow arguments.

Obama08 and can't wait to read the boomer's next gotcha post.

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Lappel1:

Aristotle calls the idea of spreading the wealth 'distributive justice,' and warns that though 'legal justice' is what any civil society first of all requires, societies without distributive justice are inherently unstable.

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PJ_FFM:

Am I mistaken or is this Obamas biggest lead so far *in this certain poll*?

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Adam:

@AtlantaBill:

Technically, I think the diagnosis would be a thick skull. His skin is very thin.

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KipTin:

Regarding Obama's tax plan:

FACT: We already have a "graduated/progressive federal income tax system" where the lower income people pay a lower percentage of taxes than the upper income. Obama wants to make the system even MORE graduated.

*** Senator Obama would raise the top individual tax rate back to 39.6 percent, impose an additional 2 to 4 percent tax on earnings for some over the existing Social Security wage cap, and bring back the phase-out of the personal exemption and certain itemized deductions for higher-income taxpayers. When added up, the top effective marginal tax rate rises...from 37.9 percent to roughly 48 to 50 percent.

---According to the IRS, the top 5 percent of all income earners in 2004 paid 57.13 percent of all income taxes.

+++++++++++++

FACT: Congress TEMPORARILY fixed the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) for '08 taxpayers with a "patch" in the bailout bill.
The 2008 exemption amounts are $69,950 for married couples filing jointly, $34,975 for married couples filing separately and $46,200 for single taxpayers.

Had the patch not been implemented, the 2008 numbers would be $45,000 for married couples filing jointly, $22,500 for married couples filing separately and $33,750 for single taxpayers.

The median household income for 2007 was $50,233, according to the latest data available from the U.S. Census.

***The AMT began with the passage of the Tax Reform Act of 1969. When drafted, it was meant to target the high-income taxpayers that could claim enough deductions to owe little or no income tax, which at that time were about 200 households. However, based on the current law without the patch, it would affect 20 percent of households by 2010.

--- McCain proposes to abolish the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT), which is currently slated to grow to impose a trillion dollar tax increase on the American people in just a few years, burdening 25 million middle-class families. Abolishing the AMT would save middle-class families $2,700 on average per year, a cut of $60 billion each year from current law.

Obama is supposedly going to "roll-back" the AMT, whatever that means. I can find no specifics. His record may tell us more... Obama voted No on repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax. Senator Obama voted against amendments regarding exemptions to the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) in 2007 and 2008 because Democrats felt exemptions to the AMT would results in large federal revenue shortfalls without offsetting budget cuts.

Note: Bush uses the AMT remaining in place for his budget surplus/deficit projections. What will Obama do????


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Col Bob:

boomshak hit Obama's nail on the head. Obama's response to the plumber, "I am not trying to harm you personally, but I believe that when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody..." was right out of Karl Marx.."from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs."

This policy of collectivism was tried at the Jamestown and Plymouth colonies with disastrous results. Since no one ther owned the fruits of their labors, there was no incentive to work hard for other people. The colonists quickly began to starve to death waiting for their neighbors to feed them.

William Bradford, of Plymouth, solved the problem by giving each colonist their own private plot of land. Soon the industrious and non-industrious became productive and the colony thrived. The same remedy saved Jamestown.

You see, under a communistic system, each worker tries to exploit his fellow workers through free riding so overall wealth and production suffers. As a result everyone suffers.

Remember Adam Smith's quote in his book, The Wealth of Nations...“It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from the regard to their own interest.”

Obama may have good intentions, but his policies will not enrich the nation. He will help the poor and the middle class at the expense of the "rich." As his welfare state demands more "rights" to food, clothing, and shelter on top of healthcare and transportation he will need to take more from the wealthy to support his wealth redistribution program. Soon he will destroy the very taxbase he is depending on for this distribution of wealth as the wealthy attempt to shield the fruits of their labors from increasing taxation. They will funnel their income into tax shelters or offshore accounts to preserve their wealth. Many may leave the country for more productive friendly countries. If Obama increases taxes on corporations, he will drive them away as well.

In conclusion, a quote from Abraham Lincoln..."you don't help the wage earner by punishing the wage payer."

Obama is a Socialist at best and a Marxist at worst. He will help the poor in the short run but will hurt the country's economy in the long run.

I've seen this movie too many times before.

Remember Santayana.."those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it," and Einstein, "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results."

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Mister H:

@Boomshak

The problem, Boomshak, is that the vast majority of Americans who will be voting are in FAVOR of evening things out. They WANT to create a situation where the normal, everyday person has a better chance of success. In their minds, business as a whole has been living high the past 8 years.

So I wouldn't plan on your silly Marxist theory carrying any weight with them. People. Don't. Care.

They care about the economy, their housing situation, their job, health care, and their grocery bills.

Period.

Don't believe me? Take a gander at almost ANY survey and you will see that this is correct.

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burrito:

@Mark Blumenthal:

"Just curious, does anyone have a comment that's remotely on the topic of the poll, it's results or methods?"

Unfortunately, it appears that very few people seem to be posting "an intelligent and civil comment" related to the topic of the poll. It seems to me that some individuals (usually the ones that do not like the results posted) go completely off topic with some outrageous statement. This has the effect of getting everyone else inflamed ... things escalate quickly from there on.

Normally the "pollster base" (those individuals that have been here for quite a long time) are sensible. My guess is that either "trolls" or individuals using other pseudonyms try to diminish the poll data or distract from the results by getting off topic.

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Dan1967:

Barack Obama and Joe Biden will give tax breaks to people who make less then 250,000 per year. Obama and Biden will give a 50% tax credit to help small business owners pay for their workers health care. Obama and Biden will reform our health care system so people can have the option of having the same quality and affordable health care that every member of congress gets.

The Republicans lazee faire economic policy of no regulation has got our country in to the economic crisis that it is in now.

A Republican is a Republican. I don't trust McCain and Palin.

VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA AND LETS GET A DEMOCRAT WIN IN NOVEMBER!

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