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NY: Obama 55, McCain 42 (Rasmussen-9/15)

Topics: PHome

Rasmussen Reports
9/15/08; 500 LV, 4.5%
Mode: Live Telephone Interviews

New York State
Obama 55, McCain 42
(August: Obama 55, McCain 36)

 

Comments
OGLiberal:

Nothing to see here....move along.

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Mike_in_CA:

this is customary expected tightening as election day approaches. guess that Siena poll was a littl eoff huh?

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RaleighNC:

Would've been news had it confirmed Siena's poll. Thanks anyways, Scott! Can you please poll Hawaii? LOL.

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AmericaFirst:

NY back where it should be.

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Xenobion:

6% gain in the state is something though for McCain but otherwise he was losing it by a long shot anyways.

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NW Patrick:

As I've said. McCain better not lose VA, CO, OR NV or it's OVER.

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NW Patrick:

I wonder if Obama can win Oklahoma! This poll is so interesting:) LOL

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NW Patrick:

There is one interesting note in this poll. 6* Barack Obama named Joe Biden to be his Vice Presidential running mate. Was this the right choice for Obama to make?

39% Yes
35% No
27% Not sure

39% of NEW YORKERS, Hillary's state thought it was the right choice. WOW.

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freedomreigns:

Sigh. . .another waist of money. Why poll Oklahoma, why poll NY, why poll Utah, why poll Massachusetts?

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zotz:

WOW! This is HUGE!!! Obama has gained 8 pts. in FIVE DAYS. That's it... McCain is finished! He should just give up.

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Why are they wasting money polling NY?

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ndirish11:

McCain Lose OR? What are you talking about Patrick, I don't think Oregon is at all in McCain's strategy. The state I think that will decide the election is Colorado. I think all the state that will decide the election is Colorado. Out of the toss-up states now I think McCain will get Ohio, Virginia, Montana, and Nevada. Obama will get New Hampshire, New Mexico, and Michigan. That would total 265 McCain, 264 Obama. And whoever gets Colorado wins.

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ndirish11:

McCain Lose OR? What are you talking about Patrick, I don't think Oregon is at all in McCain's strategy. The state I think that will decide the election is Colorado. I think all the state that will decide the election is Colorado. Out of the toss-up states now I think McCain will get Ohio, Virginia, Montana, and Nevada. Obama will get New Hampshire, New Mexico, and Michigan. That would total 265 McCain, 264 Obama. And whoever gets Colorado wins.

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HaloFan:

http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/16/obama-race-a-factor/


here comes the race card... here it comeeeeeeeeees

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apologist42:

@ NW Patrick

I'm not sure most New Yorkers have yet adopted Hillary as "one of our own". The most interesting number might be the 27% "Not sure". I think at this point, people are less familiar with Biden than they are with Palin. Although I like Biden, that might be a good thing as far as the Dems are concerned.

BTW: western NY (Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse) are more like western PA, eastern OH when it comes to voting preferences. Although it's never enough to outweigh the voters downstate, when they get motivated, they can shift polls like this more to the right.

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greg in charlotte:

OMG wow McCain is about to turn Minnesota and Penn. red not to mention several other swing state. McCain and the very hot Palin must be very pleased right now

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greg in charlotte:

new ARG poll today McCain 48 Obama 45
Bye Bye Barry

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apologist42:

Curious as to why Rasmussen seems to always use 500 people for its sample. Seems New York state would demand a larger sample size than, say, New Hampshire.

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boomshak:

Yep, well no one really thought NY was in play. That's like polling Hell to see how many voters are leaning Jesus.

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s.b.:

Rassmussen's June poll Obama +31, August Poll Obama +20, September Obama +13

Also interesting McCain only attracts 77% of Republicans, all he has to do is appeal to the base to get up to 87-90% republican vote to make NY competative.

I'm not saying Ny is going red, but if obama has to fight for NY he's in trouble and McCain can make him do that by solidifying the Rep base there.


If this trend line continues after the debates, It could be within 2-3% by the end of Oct.

I don't think anyone really thought Ny was within 3% now, but it might be next month.

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macsuk:

Greg in Charlotte

Nice to see a paid McCain Troll has joined the discussion...not

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s.b.:

Also, Al Gore won NY by 25%, Kerry by 18%. This poll alone puts Obama well below those numbers, averaged with Sienna, +5%, Obama is trending 9% below Kerry in NY. That's not good, even for fund raising alone, which Obama still has to do there to keep up.

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Tunanoodle:

Greg, have you ever kissed a girl?

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s.b.:

I'm sory greg how is actually discussing the numbers from the poll, it's internals and past history of the state being a troll? That is what this discussion forum is supposed to be about. Unfortunately people use it to spout silly predictions, disclaimers and partisan rants sometimes quite offensive. Discussing the poll is not being a troll, it's discussing the poll and highlighting aspects of interest in it.

If Obama has to start spending resources in traditionally blue states it uses up money and people he is supposed to be spending elsewhere in swing states. Several intelligent media outlets, have already picked this up.

In fact it was one of Obama's strategies to ttry to get Mccain to spend money and resources on traditionally red states, but it doesn't look like its going to work out that way.

McCain doesn't have to win blue states, he has to make Obama fight for them, while he spends his time and money on swing states.

That's not trolling that's the reality of the campaign as it stands now.

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Xenobion:

Obama isn't going to put money into NY. End of story.

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s.b.:

Sorry it was macsuk who made the comment on trolling, I thought it was greg.

I can tell you I stopped reading these forums or commenting a long time ago because of the ridiculous rabid pro Obama rants and fits of delusional fantasies clogging these comment threads.

McCain trolls are not the problem here.

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s.b.:

Xenobion, But he still needs to get money out of NY and that may dry up if this polls trend continues. I still find the most interesting number only 77% of republicans supported McCain in this poll. That means the room for growth is easier for McCain than Obama in NY. There amy also be a significant Hillary write in in NY which could pull votes from Obama and I've only seen one article discuss it. A republican push to solidify the base and a PUMA write in campaign could make NY tough for Obama.

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macsuk:

s.b.

Oh really s.b. Republican trolls are not the problem. I suggest you go back and read the dozen or so comments Greg has made over the past several polls. It is like reading a Fox News blog.

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carl29:

Excuse guys, but I just want to put some facts on the table:

Real Clear Politics for years ago:

SUSA | 9/18-9/20 Bush 39 Kerry 55
Kerry +16

Rasmussen | 9/12-9/18 Bush 44 Kerry 49
Kerry +5

ARG | 9/14-9/16 Bush 40 Kerry 52
Kerry +12

Marist 9/13-9/14 Bush 40 Kerry 51
Kerry +11

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Justin:

@s.b.

The comment was made ABOUT Greg/halo, who is obviously just trolling. When you defend people like that or deny what they're doing you just bring yourself down.

As for the poll itself, I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you. McCain has no shot at New York. He gets nothing out of this. This poll means nothing. It was a waste of time.

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Xenobion:

I'd love to see how much undecideds contribute to political campaigns S.B. If how things have been going there seems to be no problem thus far.

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KipTin:

Actually McCain is nearly the same in the Siena poll (41%) as this one (42%).

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greg in charlotte:

Wow McCain is catching obama in nearly all swing state polls.... Move Colorado and Navada into the red colomn boys.

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greg in charlotte:

column....sorry

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greg in charlotte:

have you guys checked out obamacrimes.com

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carl29:

Excuse guys, but I just want to put some facts on the table:

Real Clear Politics for years ago:

SUSA | 9/18-9/20 Bush 39 Kerry 55
Kerry +16

Rasmussen | 9/12-9/18 Bush 44 Kerry 49
Kerry +5

ARG | 9/14-9/16 Bush 40 Kerry 52
Kerry +12

Marist 9/13-9/14 Bush 40 Kerry 51
Kerry +11

Is McCain's level of support any different than Bush's at this time back in 2004?

Is Obama's level of support any different than Kerry's at this time back in 2004?

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greg in charlotte:

Carl you just predictied a McCain Palin victory

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greg in charlotte:

and oh yeah Sarah Palin is so hot

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carl29:

Dear greg in charlotte: I am not voicing any opinion. I am putting the facts on the table, take it or leave it. This is a Democracy and everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion, however, his or her own facts?

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greg in charlotte:

wow all of you libs are so touchy.....hang in there McCain Palin are going to put you out of your misery in 49 days.......say your good byes to barry while you have a chance

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greg in charlotte:

Dear Libs
Listen up, we do not care about trooper gate, bridges or teen baby daddy, all we hear when you say this crap is blah blah blah

WE REALLY LOVE SARAH 2012 thats what we are voting for. the future

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s.b.:

Carl are these national polls or NY polls? I read one article that said NJ flirts with the republicans but always swings dem in the end. I would say this is commmon for all non swing states. They vote in historic patterns in the end, due to better party machines and voter turnouts or independents that are really Rep or Dem in the long run. NY however may be different this time because of the Hillary factor. Same with Michigan because the municipal machine of Kwame Kilpatrick won't be able to get out the black vote in the city to the same extent and there is a backlash against him. I'm also interested in Mass because Duvall Patrick has been a huge disapointment who used the same tactics, campaign manager and even speeches of Obama. A backlash against Patrick could make Mass a battle ground. None of these scenarios is good for Obama. He may have to fight for states he wasnt supposed to fight for.

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faithhopelove:

ARG is set to release 27 state polls tomorrow. Three numbers were leaked today as a preview:

MT: McCain +2
WV: McCain +4
NM: Obama +7

This MT poll may indicate that last week's right-leaning Rasmussen poll of the state was an outlier. Or, perhaps ARG included Ron Paul's name (he's on the ballot there)--Rasmussen did not.

While WV is unlikely to swing Obama's way, this number indicates that he is probably faring relatively well along the WV/VA border, which points to his strength in VA. (PPP releases a new VA poll tomorrow.)

NM looks to be leaning toward Obama. He visits this state on Thursday. Even the recent McCain-favorable Zogby internet polls had Obama ahead in this state. Moreover, the Research 2000 tracker shows the West trending Obama; he has opened up an 8-point lead today in states that include NM and NV (where he makes 2 stops tomorrow).

See:
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/09/16/arg_poll_montana_west_virginia_look_competitive.html

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rationalvoice:

Congrats, Greg. You just said you don't care about Palin's past or character, only her boobs.

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greg in charlotte:

Dear Angry rationalvoice,
Palin's past and character is what makes her sooooooo hot ..... well boobs too

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greg in charlotte:

do any of you have an idea why obama is sinking in the polls so fast

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greg in charlotte:

obama just looks beat on TV

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tjampel:

Ras from Sept 20, 2004
It helps when idiots on BOTH sides of the great political divide do even slight amounts of research, but some you just love to run your little fingers over those keyboards.


New York: Kerry 49% Bush 44%
Monday, September 20, 2004
Email a Friend Email to a Friend
Advertisement

John Kerry's lead in New York is down to single digits. The Empire State, among the bluest of the Blue States from Election 2000, is still in the Kerry column for our Electoral College projections, but the raw numbers are stunning.

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tjampel:

sorry....I was a bit late with that; thanks to all those brae people who spent 1 minute googling
"kerry" polling "new york" rasmussen September
etc. Perhaps we need to hold a seminar for those who are challenged in using Google

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carl29:

The other day a poll from West Virginia came out as well:

MBE 09/05 - 09/08 McCain 44 Obama 39
McCain +5

I don't think that the Obama campaign nor the McCain is investing anything in this state. Most probable the McCain campaign feels it is safe. Obama campaign most probable thinks they don't have a shot there, which in my opinion seems pretty reasonable.

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zen:


Talking about NY is same as talking about Texas. Period.

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carl29:

Sorry "s.b," I hadn't seen your question. Yes, the polls I'm citing are NewYork polls because this is the state I thought we are talking about.

"NY however may be different this time because of the Hillary factor."

Well, I don't know about the "Hillary factor," but the polls back in Sept. 2004 in the great state of New York look strikling similar to the one right now.

Real Clear Politics four years ago:

SUSA | 9/18-9/20 Bush 39 Kerry 55
Kerry +16

Rasmussen | 9/12-9/18 Bush 44 Kerry 49
Kerry +5

ARG | 9/14-9/16 Bush 40 Kerry 52
Kerry +12

Marist 9/13-9/14 Bush 40 Kerry 51
Kerry +11


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Basil:

greg

Obama is sinking in the polls because you're holding your computer upside down.

He's rising in the polls because McCain's focus on personality rather than issues only works if there's a personality there to focus on. Remember Al Gore's shifting identity problem?

McCain's now the inventor of the Blackberry, and he's never really been a Republican, and as a deregulator he'd really like to regulate something, and he doesn't question Obama's patriotism (just his love of country), and 8,000 people showed up at a speech in a hall that holds 3,500, and the fundamentals are strong but he doesn't know much about it, and he's a leader but he's also a loner, and he's stable but he picks VP's he's hardly met (and didn't want), and celebrity is bad unless you're an instant celebrity, and he doesn't have a plan but he really wants to shake things up.

And he was a POW.

Maybe he just "discovered" the blackberry--the berry, not the gizmo.

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macsuk:

Many of you should get off the computer and watch the news. McCain and Palin are finally getting hammered. For example CNN tried to get to Obama by looking at fact and fiction, went after Obama, and in the end admitted that the McCain camp were lyers. Six conservative and respected writers said that McCain and Palin are a joke. McCains pick of Palin worked for a while but will in the end go down as the worse pick in history.

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macsuk:

I almost forgot...Ads dealing with the Keating 5 might come in handy with the topic of the day. Yes your man McCain has always been a reformer

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marctx:

I agree, McCain-Palin are getting hammered.

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Basil:

@macsuk

Exactly. Barring an alien-led economic recovery, I think we're seeing the high water mark for McCain/Palin. I've been wrong before, though. There may be more whoppers on the horizon, and I keep thinking issues matter. Stupid me.

This isn't a case of D's having all the answers. Far from it. It's a case of R's being shown to be the Holy Know-Nothing Liar party who should be held accountable for their disastrous policies.

Incidentally, does your name mean you think Macs suck?

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macsuk:

Basil

Yes I do think that the race McCain has run sucks. I really do believe this is the time for Obama to run some honest ads dealing with the SNL "thing " in the 80s.

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joydivision8:

First of all- Greg in Charlotte...get a life.

I hope both parties start running some valid issues-based commercials, instead of slimy personal attacks. I have followed McCain for a lot of years, read his biographies, and always respected him...but I can't stand most of the ads his campaign has run. He needs to run on the issues, because he has a lot of solid points to make on the issues. John, don't let your campaign managers ruin your good name.

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SuperCruncher:

Gang

I know Greg's type.

Never served in the military. Doesn't actually go to church. Has a Star-Wars-like understanding of the economy. He has just graduated college and is still wearing his fraternity's
baseball hat to job interviews. HIs dad is fairly successful, but still well under Obamas tax increase. And his father did not spend very much time with him.

Sometimes he is tempted to go back to the old frat house and talk about the old days.

Also he treats his mother like she is only there to make sandwiches for him.

Did I miss anything greg?

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s.b.:

Right thanks Carl, so what you are saying is that NY is looking similar to 2004 and they will be strong Dem in the end. Most likely but didn't the dems lose the white house in 2004? The map is looking very very similar with a coule of exceptions, Iowa mostly, which still gives the Reps victory. Obama's 50 state strategy has amounted to much ado about nothing and the Dems as always have trouble closing the deal or getting a majority of the vote.

Let's face it most voters are set in their ways, the country is divided between middle America and the coasts. Sure people want change, but McCain isn't Bush and the Congress is controlled by the Dems.

Obama's money advantage has also turned out to be much ado about nothing. This thing will look a lot like 2004, an awful lot. Dems may take Iowa but they probably trade Washington due to NW connections to Alaska and NRA spending. Viriginia will vote McCain with absentee military votes as always.

I agree Carl. It looks a lot like 2004

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marctx:

It's good that Palin is finally exposed for buying a tanning bed in Alaska and that the troopergate scandal was to expose Palin for not liking a credible trooper that only tazered a 10 year old kid and got suspended for drinking on the job.

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marctx:

BREAKING NEWS: The media will expose Palin for tearing off the labels on pillows which is a clearly violation of the American trust.

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faithhopelove:

s.b.:

You write, "The map is looking very very similar [to 2004]...."

In 2004, Kerry never led Bush in CO.

In every September 2004 poll, Bush led in IA.

Bush did not trail in a single NV poll from September-November 2004.

Bush averaged a 1.4-point lead in NM in 2004 (a poll to be released tomorrow will show Obama up 7 points there).

Bush led by double-digits in every 2004 IN poll from March until election day.

Bush's poll numbers in MT in 2004 ranged from +18 to +28.

Bush never trailed in a VA poll in 2004.

In all 7 of these states, Obama is running ahead of Kerry's pace. The map may end up looking very different this year.

See:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/bush_vs_kerry_sbys.html

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mattisnotfrench:

@sb

Are you kidding me? You think McCain will win Washington? Seriously? Have you ever been to Washington? There's NO chance at all that McCain will win there. No chance. AT ALL. Proximity to Sarah Palin has nothing to do with politics here. Washington is almost as blue as its neighbor to the south...

I saw somebody suggest in another thread that Oregon was in play. Ha! Ha! Ha! Seriously? McCain couldn't win here if he were the only candidate on the ballot. The Portland metro area is at least 75% of the state's population and you'd be HARD PRESSED to find a McCain sign anywhere, at least in the city. I've never seen a McCain sign in this city and I see maybe one McCain bumper sticker a week here. Seattle is much the same way in Washington.

Seriously. Oregon and Washington?

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djneedle83:

ppp...

Obama will be up 6 points in Virgnia...

get ready for this shocker...

200,000 newly registered voters..and a couple hundred thousand to come.

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djneedle83:

It's time to say that Virginia is almost a Northeastern state. OBama will get a greater percentage of AA,

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greg in charlotte:

Wow..most of you are in a serious state of denial. McCain/Palin are quickly nailing the coffin shut on balack obama in nearly every poll.

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Tybo:

greg in charlotte,

yeah , we know the obama campaign has hired posters to perform as racist.

take it elsewhere,sweetie

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sherman:

LOL, Greg! Funny!

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NeverMetAnHonestLib:

What's exciting to see is the shrinking blue and spreading red. Little old New Hampshire is is the lighthouse in a sea of liberal darkness. We won't forget you New Hampshire. Let your light shine!

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sherman:

Not sure what you are looking at, but the only NH Poll showing a McCain lead is a Zogby intenet poll, which can be reasonably ignored. Other polls show a slim to moderate lead for Obama.

As far as other states are concerned, compared to last election it looks more like the blue is encroaching into the red more than anything else. See NM, CO, VA, OH, IN, MT, NV...did I miss any?

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NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Sad to see how far to the left Maine has moved. What was once a bastion of conservatism has been infultrated by granolas and elitists looking for solace away from their failing cities. We can hope those authentic Mainers wake up and see the light before they become another Massachusetts or Vermont.

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NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Sherm:

Even a lib should be able to compare last week's map to this week's and see the growing red. Are you still hung up on the last election? This is a new ballgame Sherm. Don't let your blue-tinted glasses deceive you.

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thoughtful:

Sherman

You missed Iowa and Nevada from first tier and NC, FL from second tier.

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douglasfactors:

Hey, check out Intrade...

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Jacob S:

To go along with douglasfactors' comment, breaking news: Obama pulls ahead of McCain on the Intrade Market.

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s.b.:

Matt seriously Oregon or Washington, again McCain doesn't have to win them. he just ahs to make Obama fight for them. This takes him away from other states. Idaho is right next to both these states, Palin's birth state and about +30 McCain. This will influence those two states with volunteers etc. I believe obama will have to fight for both these states. Wait till the NRA starts their 10 million dollar add campaign. The west is the west, except California.

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s.b.:

tjampel, Kerry lost in 2004. Just thought I'd remind you all of that when citing polls to prove that Obama is just fine in NY.

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thoughtful:

s.b.

I think McCain has a lot more pressing matters than being competitive in Washington and Oregon.

Ras has polls out today on WI and OR. Agaist that there are some polls out today which will draw into question Rasmussen's current polling.
VA, MT, WV, NM are just some that I know of.

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NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Noticed the google banner ad from moveon.org giving away 1 million Obama buttons this week. I encourage all repubs to request them. They may be something to give your grandchildren when they ask "Who was it that ran against President McCain?" Could be valuable one day too.

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s.b.:

I just checked Idaho on the ARG survey. It's McCain +43, the largest margin of any state. I think some volunteers from there might go to MT, WA, OR to help out don't you?

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s.b.:

Actually thoughtful, Mccain just opened offices in Washington, and NJ. heintends to make Obama fight for them. And no he has nothing better to do than make obama fight for blue states. It's a perfect campaign stretegy to draw resources and time away from real swing states. Plouffe just announced today they are still fighting for NC and MT. lmao It's the dumbest thing the Obama camp has done, waste money on states that will stay red. He also announced a 36 million dollar plan for Florida, because the 9 million in ads alone they have thrown down the toilet there already for no returns isn't enough.

McCain has nothing better to do than get Obama to waste his time and money on states that can't be moved but look like they have to be fought for.

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s.b.:

Do they poll service men and women overseas who get to vote in Virginia? My understanding is that a good part of the GOP grip on Virginia is overseas ballots. These people aren't being polled.

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boskop:

Joisey caves. soon, veddy zoon
Mccain's not ceding this puppy no way no how.

WI next. No make that WI caves first Joisey follows. Either way, when trooper gate fully reveals palin has more to gain than obama.

taser a kid of ten. sure, why not mine and yours too? You go get 'em big O!!

wait, is it palin v obama or am i missing something?

anyway, the real contest should be mccain v biden.

the debates will rock obama's core insecurity. he has a smugness thing going which when challenged makes him furious and not able to hide it.

so watch for him to sink down into zee dregs of gestural and tonal ugliness.

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greg in charlotte:

sb is very smart...I would take his opinion seriously

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s.b.:

Actually the PPP poll has obama up by 2 points exactly the same margin they have posted for the past two months. Interesting since all the other pollsters showed McCain losing ground to Obama in that time. So the shift has either stopped or begun to go the other way. Remember in a lot of these places McCain is just opening offices and running ads now. In Ohio and Pennsylvania he just doubled his offices to about match Obama's this week. In Viriginia an energized local republican base may do much moe to sway their neighbors than kids from colleges in the NE bused in by Obama. McCain has held off Obama or made gains without spending much or any money. McCain spent no money in Florida to Obama's 9 million in ads alone and gained ground. The 527's the NRA etc and now McCain's and the RNC's offices and vlounteers have just gotten started. Obama did not build an insurmountable lead in any state that matters with all the money he has thrown at them. Republicans know two things, don't peak too early and don't throw money away. This thing just started. Wait a month.

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carl29:

I think that something "unusual" is going on in Montana. In 2004 ARG conducted this same set of polls, the same states. The numbers in Montana are incredible different this year compared to 4 years ago.

ARG | 9/7-9/9 600 LV Bush 60 Kerry 32
Bush +28

These are the numbers this year:

September 7-9, 2008 LV McCain 49 Obama 47

This doesn't mean that Obama will win Montana, but no doubt that his odds are so much better than Kerry's in 2004.

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s.b.:

Normally I don't comment on non poll related matters here, but I can't believe that the MSM has the bombing of a US embassy by terrorists and 16 dead Americans overseas as the third or fourth or sixth story, when a 17 year old's pregnancy was breaking headline news talked about non stop for a week and called political journalism. There is something very very wrong with the US media. It is sick.

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boskop:

Re: ARG

shiiit, illinois that close.

even i never suspected that one.

anyway, if obama wants he can have rhode island, really.

with my blessing
so that leaves three other real dark blue states,ummm, let's see, there's IOWAY, they're nuts there anyway, all 6 of them

there's rhode island, young kiddies but they get bummed fast when things look dark and they prefer to bail out or go smoke some weed. ie: not vote

Havaii_ yup, nice of them to remember, lil darlins'

oh, not too sure about illinois anymore. or new york.

New Mexico will go to mccain after the debates make it perfectl clear how mccain stuck his neck out for the hispanis facing possible political suicide. so dont sweat that one.

final tally,,, who the h knows but i think my dog can count the EV's on his little toes.


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s.b.:

Carl of course there is something going on in MT. Obama has many offices there and has been spending tons of money on ads there for months. The GOP hasn't but they will, so will the NRA. Besides its 3 electoral votes and they will stay red. The GOP needs to run one ad for two weeks there to win it. They are laughing all the way to the bank where they save their money for when it counts, October, instead of spending it like Amelda Marcos at a shoe sale in July.

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NW Patrick:

McCain's in trouble? Anyone see the Reuters/Zogby poll today. 7 point Obama swing and h e now leads. Palin is CRASHING!

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s.b.:

Wow Illinois +6 for Obama. That is very interesting. Many will just dismiss the poll. It might have been a bad sample, but WOW. Maybe some people are pissed that Obama never challenged the corrupt political system in Chicago, but Palin went right after the the old boys in Juneau. In fact Obama played right along with the Chicago thugs. Wow.

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carl29:

Dear "s.b.", my comment is neither a prediction, I am not in that business, nor a strategic brief.

All I'm saying is that there is something extremely different between these numbers and those 4 years ago. I am not getting into the "why" business. But if I have to give my OPINION, I would say that what is going on in Montana with Obama goes beyond money spending. Take Florida as an example. As you have mentioned it, up to the end of July, Obama had already spent millions of dollars in advertising and his numbers did not move dramatically, compared to McCain who up to that time hadn't even bother spending a dime in this state- I live in Florida.

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s.b.:

Parick the Zogby poll is within the MOE as most polls have been, and it has them both at 45% with Bar and Naer,which means that the 2% all came from Obama, which means at least that much of his support is soft. This poll is not outside what all the others have shown accept the Gallup +10 McCain.

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djneedle83:

haha..McCain will not be president.

PPP will have Obama +5-+7 today.

Check out this article...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/16/AR2008091603152.html

283,000 new voters... holla

In addition, 62 percent of new voters are younger than 35, and 42 percent are younger than 25, according to the state numbers.

Republicans said that the state added more than 200,000 registered voters in 2004 but that President Bush won Virginia by 262,000 votes

____________________

djneedle83:

ARG's voter political affliation is out of whack...

Nevada, Colorado, and Ohio are the best examples of ARG's poor performance. Look at how poorly they surveyed the primaries this year.

____________________

marctx:

Great news for McCain...way to much data at one time...check out the link.

11:11 ARG data for 25 states: McCain ahead in CO, NV, OH

http://americanresearchgroup.com/

____________________

KipTin:

From the same article"
"But registering new voters is only one piece of the puzzle. The next piece is getting these voters to the polls."

Robert Holsworth, a political scientist at Virginia Commonwealth University, said new voters did not help the Democrats in 2004. "There is some indication that the new voter registration is tilting in some way to Obama, but I think the Democrats have to be cautious about being overconfident, given these numbers are not that much larger than 2004," he said.

____________________

Napoleon Complex:

Interesting to the see the McCainiacs talking up the stale state polls. The momentum has already shifted due to McCain's poor performance on the economic crisis and Palin's stonewalling. This is all old news.

____________________

s.b.:

DJ needle. Wow school yard taunts make you seem so intelligent and mature. Um now the PPP Virginia numbers have already beeen released. They are Obama +2. The same result as the past two months. Perhaps if you checked the numbers before gloating it would be more helpful to a rational discussion.

As far as WAPO of CNN bylines, I would be cautious extrapolating from them as their bias and outright decption is obvious. CNN cherry picks polls to suit their purposes for their poll of polls and both organizations come up with headlines like Fiorina says Palin not qualified to run company, when in fact she said none of the candidates were.

So read further, including the real numbers. It broadens one's understanding.

____________________

greg in charlotte:

news flash the ppp poll was conducted on mostly dems and women....do the lib math....ppp means little

____________________

KipTin:

So ARG is bad? You do not want to believe that Obama is ahead in New Mexico by 6?
---------

Yes, Obama should have an advantage on the economy this week, but he still needs to "connect" with his message. And I would say a TWO MINUTE ad filmed in his motel room reading a teleprompter is not how to get someone's attention.

In contrast, McCain has a well-made 30 second ad called "Foundation" that has McCain stating "My opponents only solutions are TALK and taxes." How ironic is that?

Also compare their responses to AIG. McCain knows how to campaign-speak. Obama's message gets lost in mountains of words.

____________________

s.b.:

Napoleon races always shift. McCain by the way was correct 100%. The fundamentals if the US economy are sound. 95% of Americans who want to work are employed. 90% of American spay their mortgages. GDP rose 3% in the last quarter. We are not even close to a recession. Banks are not GDP. Wall street is not the economy and a commander in chiefs job is not to scare people or fear monger about the economy and use references to the great depression when no such thing is occuring. The worst thing for a POTUS to do would be to start talking great depression that is absolutely wreckless. McCAin is right. Companies that lend money for nothing, on properties worth nothing to people who can pay nothing should go under. Fannie and Freddie are government sponsored and created so they are different but Obama has recieved the second most lobbying money from, FM and FM, 150,000 in 3 years, McCain the least 20,000 over 20 years. Obama is wrong on this McCain right. Panic and fear are the worst things possible rightnow. The US economy is sound. Banking and loans have been mismanaged.

____________________

greg in charlotte:

Now that CO, NV, OH have turning red McCain now has 261 electoral votes. McCain only needs one more state to close the deal. Look out PA, VA, Mi, NH, NM, WI, MN if any of these states go red its over for Balack Obama.

____________________

s.b.:

Sorry the fundamentals of the US economy are sound.

Polls by the way are just polls. Discounting polls based on who does them with no info or numbers is just rhetoric. Discuss the sample if you want with real numbers. Such as when Zogby was wrong in California by 20% it was because he oversampled San Franscisco, by 300% and undersampled LA and San Diego. This is clear from his numbers.

Also the Hotline Diego polls only sample 8% independents someone said, but I haven't been able to confim this. That's a significant issue, when about 28% of voters are independents.

Please prove to me that a sample is wrong before discounting a poll based on the pollster. Some polls have shown McCAin ahead in NM most show him behind. This poll is not unusual and when the MOE is applied is just fine.

I'm very interested in Illinois. If anyone has the internals for that sample or another poll to compare it to that would be interesting.

____________________

greg in charlotte:

Now that OH, NV, and CO have turned red McCain has 261 electoral votes. McCain only needs one more state to go red and he wins. Obama MUST win in PA,MI,WI,NH,WI,NM and VA.
I dont think he will win half of these MUST states.

____________________

NW Patrick:

ARG Obama up 5% in ILL? ROFL ROFL ROFL.
These polls are already outdated after McCain's HORRIBLE day yesterday the national #'s are swinging and so will the states.

____________________

carl29:

I think that after this Illinois poll, other pollsters will poll the state, most probable Rasmussen. Soon we will find out what is going on there :-)

____________________

KipTin:

Regarding economic issue.

According to the ARG poll--
"McCain continues to dominate on national
security, with a 20-point advantage, and he reverses his 3-day slide on “who handles
economy better” by gaining 3 points on this issue. With the economy being the top issue on
voters’ minds (at 40%), the Poll shows that the gap on the economy is once again closing,
with Obama dropping 3 points on his perceived performance on the economy."

Looking at the "economy" numbers-- Obama was up 50% on 9/14 and has now dropped to 44%. Oops!!!

____________________

boskop:

@obamites

a question for your man.

if the fed and treasury have effectively turned the bush admin into a populist one how does that position obama as something diffrent?

let's talk money: if the money is siphoned out to help these monoliths like freddie and fannie who financed obama NOT mccain, then whee is the money left to borrow more and pay out more relief rebate checks and more extreme spending for health policies etc>

it's not just siging checks it's building out more government and offices and personnel to man it.

how do you keep the faucet open without running out of water?

i think that obama is in trouble intellectually on this one. the answer is he cant. it's fiscally irresponsible like all the greedy idiots who over leveraged and are now in trouble.

there has to be something in between, some kind of reform on health and education and not one that is simply tax and spend.

who you gonna tax now that incomes have gone down and savings have ben wiped out?
how do you do that?

Obama, where you gonna get your money now?

____________________

greg in charlotte:

five thiry eight.com is now giving McCain 288 and Obama 249 electoral votes. Bye Bye Barry

PS. Sarah is sooooo hot

____________________

greg in charlotte:

Well said Boskop

____________________

boskop:

@greg

you crack me up. but the guys in my family agree and i am delighted.

i know the old hag women's liberals i mean women's libbers felt they deserved one of theirs to get there first but hey, gloria steinem hot? :>)

maybe it's time to re-run that grand old movie, Born Yesterday.

I know Cindie is smiling cause she knew those eastern intellectual Birkenstock-ers had it coming. good lookers can have brains and dont need to shop at whole foods.

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

It's so obvious that the MSM will continue to focus on Wall Street painting as bleak an economic picture as possible. Giving adequate coverage to the infinitely more important story of an embassy bombing only plays into McCain's strengths.

The "it's the economy stupid" cliche has been the number one dem strategy for winning elections since Bush 41. It's the only thing that got them a 2-term dem president since WWII.

They can't let real life get in the way before their candidate gets a decent bounce. If the AIG building was bombed by terrorists today, they would call it another financial collapse. It is sickening.

____________________

thoughtful:

Gosh there are a lot of McCain/Palin supporters deluding themselves.

The economy is so sound fundamentally that Goldman Sachs shares are 40% down today. Morgan Stanley 20% down. These Clowns in washington including McCain wanted to privatize Social Security and play that in John McCain's casino!

To the Polls:

Iowa is the only State that looks certain in changing hands and that is from Red to Blue.

There are a great number of Red states where Obama is certainly competitive like New Mexico which will go blue.

I can not think of a single Blue state that has shown anything like a sustainable McCain lead. Michigan with one poll 1% to McCain?

All the Kerry states will remain Blue.

There are so many ways for Obama to win.

Virginia on its own is enough!

____________________

mattisnotfrench:

Illinois....John McCain doesn't have a chance in Illinois. I don't know what that one poll is saying but it doesn't reflect how unpopular the Republicans are in Illinois at the moment. While the state outside of Chicago has long been a conservative bastion, it's also been one of the places hit hard by the economic downturn. My family is from Central Illinois, I see it every time I go home. A lot of people are fed up with the Republicans. The state is turning bluer and bluer, and more progressive-a Green got 11% of the vote in the Gubernatorial race in 2006. There's also a groundswell of people supporting Obama there because he's a "native". And Gore and Kerry both won Illinois by 11+ points.

Seriously guys, there's no way McCain wins Illinois. Or Wisconsin and Minnesota, which are far more left-leaning than Illinois really is.

Focus on Indiana, Ohio and Missouri-the GOP is performing far better there than I anticipated.

____________________

Napoleon Complex:

Why are you wasting your time talking about polls that are no longer relevant? The bloom has long gone off Palin's rose and McCain looks like Herbert Hoover risen from the dead trying to explain the economic crisis.

Oh, I forgot. The collapse on Wall Street is a hoax being perpetuated by the MSM to get Obama elected.

____________________

greg in charlotte:

if its ok to say McCain looks like Hoover than it must be ok to say that Balack Obama looks like Curious George with grey lips......Libs please don't be so angry

____________________

greg in charlotte:

With 20 years in the new home sales business I can tell you first hand that dems with their liberal mortgage programs that give losers with bad credit and low incomes the ability to buy a house that they could never afford have brought down these financial companys. The dems chickens are coming home to roost

____________________

Napoleon Complex:

Obama now up two in the Gallup tracker. State polls to follow. The mortgage crisis was caused in large part by Phil Gramm, who is McCain's chief economic strategist. It was Republican degregulators who caused the problem, not the first-time home buyer programs insured under the FHA.

____________________

greg in charlotte:

napoleon no offense but you really do not have a clue.......sub prime mortgage are the problem.......go back to Bill Clinton the first black president that was looking out for his people

____________________

kerrchdavis:

wow...a 4 point swing in 1 day on a 3 day rolling poll means a HUGE day for Obama yesterday. Expect these numbers to go up even more in the next day or two.

____________________

greg in charlotte:

another news flash the murder rate in Chicago just passed the death rate in Iraq for the year....good job barry

____________________

SwingVote:

Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch CEO's were also saying "fundamentals of our company are strong" last month. Who believes these nonsense BS? If McCain believes the fundamentals of the economy are strong, why does he want to change them?

If conservatives are honest enough, they should take the blame for what they have done. What did Bush promised us? He promised us tax breaks to corporations will create more jobs for us. Our 401ks will go up in value. Where are those jobs and increases? Don't blame anybody but yourselves for voting for this failing policies twice. And now you are telling us you'll fix it by voting for the same policies third time. Good luck!

____________________

RedSoxFan:

@ greg in charlotte:

You my friend are a sorry excuse for a human being to post a thread like that!!! I sure hope that someone will evaluate your comments and ban you from posting here.

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

I agree with former Clinton adviser, Dick Morris, who said that a lot of democrats and independents are saying we trust McCain more, he has better judgment, he is more of a doer, and we think he’s more qualified — but we are going to vote for Obama because he is a democrat and we agree with his party more on healthcare, energy and the economy. Such a dichotomy is an unnatural political situation.

I would like to know why these people think Obama can do anything about healthcare, energy or the economy when his own dem congress rejects hillarycare, using our own resources, not to mention Obama accepting significantly thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from Freddie and Fannie.

The latter, BTW, are the reason for the mortgage failures that caused this economic mess.

____________________

Tybo:

"SwingVote:
Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch CEO's were also saying "fundamentals of our company are strong" last month. Who believes these nonsense BS?
"

obviously obama. He had no problem taking million from them

____________________

greg in charlotte:

wow alot of silence after nevermetanhonestlib's question

____________________

sherman:

There's something wrong here. Going straight to pollster.com and I don't see all the most recent polls (this NY poll is showing as the most recent), but when I go to politicshome.com and access the pollster.com links from there, there are a lot of new polls showing up.

____________________

KipTin:

It is NOT anyone person's fault...including Bush and/or Clinton. For those with a decent attention span and a bent for learning, check out the following article:

"What should Bush have done"
http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/what_should_bush_have_done.php

____________________

SwingVote:

Toybo
Obama did not get money from these companies. He got donations from the employees. I am working for a defense company and I donated Obama. That does not mean that the company supports Obama. In fact, Obama win scares people and all the defense companies I know are very strong McCain supports (more war, more money).

Please do not distort the facts? Did you learn this trick from McCain campaign?

____________________

Napoleon Complex:

@greg in charlotte

Here's my post from a couple of days ago.

"Frannie Mae and Freddie Mac used to be Government Sponsored Enterprises and were working pretty well until they were privatized by the Republicans during the Bush Administration.

The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999 and the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 are also causing many of the problems we're having today. Both were sponsored by Phil Gramm who was or still is advising John McCain. They were signed by Bill Clinton during the time of his so-called impeachment, and both passed each house of Congress by veto-proof majorities. In 2008 Bush vetoed Democratic-sponsored legislation to close the Enron loophole created by the CFMA of 2000.

Fortunately, the Republicans couldn't quite capture the holy grain of their crusade against the New Deal by privatizing Social Security. McCain is still pushing that and it sounds like a really good idea today.

This is not a market cycle. This is a crash that will cost McCain the election because the Republicans are directly responsible for it."

Besides the Executive Branch has control over the SEC which was supposed to be regulating these mortgage securities. Bill Clinton left office over more than seven years ago.

The polls have already turned since I posted this. Did you say you were selling used cars?

____________________

NW Patrick:

Keyword "FORMER CLINTON ADVISER." What you should be worried about is how out of touch, lost, and tired your Thug looked yesterday during media interviews. His lack of knowledge on the economy that's been ADMITTED several times is really showing. Oh and by the way, so is it in the polls. Obama now up 2 in the Gallop. Obama up 3, up 4, up 2 in Rueters. You guys gotta be scared. Palin is a non issue now and with the economy baby, the sleeping giant as woken!

____________________

NW Patrick:

Can you IMAGINE our social security tied to the stock market? MY GOD THUGS! What are you thinking?

____________________

KipTin:

Well, of course, corporations cannot legally donate to candidates. But employees can, which are often instigated by "bundlers" and political PACs. Therefore, it is reasonable to say that a company or industry favors one candidate with more funding than another.

____________________

NW Patrick:

This is an economic nightmare for McCain. I will predict his campaign is officially done starting from yesterday. Bets?

____________________

greg in charlotte:

Napoleon thanks for clearing up the fact that Clinton signed it. No have havent been selling used cars I have been making big bucks for many years selling new homes and help the economy unlike you.

____________________

Napoleon Complex:

@greg in charlotte:

Wow. That was a really intelligent response. I don't know what to say.

____________________

KipTin:

In response to Napoleon Complex who stated "Frannie Mae and Freddie Mac used to be Government Sponsored Enterprises and were working pretty well until they were privatized by the Republicans during the Bush Administration."

Huh???

FACTS (Wikipedia): In 1968, to remove the activity of Fannie Mae from the annual balance sheet of the federal budget, it was converted into a PRIVATE corporation.

To provide competition in the secondary mortgage market, and to end Fannie Mae's monopoly, Congress chartered Freddie Mac as a PRIVATE corporation in 1970.

____________________

greg in charlotte:

then shut up

____________________

SwingVote:

The Great Depression was caused not by a stock crash but by a banking system left to self-destruct by a conservative president who, like John McCain today, insisted that the economy's "fundamentals" were strong.

(Eric Rauchway | September 16, 2008)

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=mccains_donothing_economics

____________________

NW Patrick:

Wow McCain not polling well in VA the last 10 days. Looks like Obama is shoring up NM too. And CO is very close. WV only down 5 now? And these polls don't even reflect the very recent massive shift in national polling. What's going on Thugs? It looks like Americans have woken up!

____________________

greg in charlotte:

ok its been fun but its back to work for me......I have social programs and entitlements for others to pay for.

PS. All of you unemployed Libs get off the internet and get to work to do you part and quit depending on others to take care of your sorry asses

____________________

MB1122:

Listen, Republicans can try and stroke their egos as much as they want to try and ignore the fact that the Palin bounce is over and that the economy is in deep s**t, but even Frank "Contract With America" Luntz says that voters are moving away from McCain b/c of he economy:

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Frank_Luntz_Polls_will_shift_to_0917.html

The only way McCain can even stay afloat now is by diverting peoples attention from reality - which cannot sustain through Nov. 4th. It's really over for him.

____________________

KipTin:

West Virginia only "down" 5 (ARG) from what baseline? According to the only other recent poll McCain is the same (Blankenship 44/39). Only two polls since June.

____________________

KipTin:

I am curious why pollster would find enough trend to put West Virginia as a toss up rather than a lean GOP.

____________________

Tybo:

and , given the standard, why Ohio isn't a leans GOP.

____________________

Stillow:

Freddie and Fannie are private, but are heavily regulated. Starting in the 90's under Clinton Freddie and Fannie were told to give loans to lower income groups and those with poor credit to ensure equal access to home ownership. As a result, it became the cool thing to do, loan money to everyone. When you loan money to people with poor credit and low incomes, its pretty clear on what's going to happen. McCain warned about Freddie and Fannie a few years ago, but no one ever listens in the midst of a boom. As with all liberal ideas, the intention is good, equal access to home ownership sounds nice, but you see once you start giving that access to those who have no earned it yet and who have proven to be poor money managers, you get a huge mess on your hands. So I blame Clinton for starting this problem. Then I blame Bush for not doing anything to reverse it....loaning money to high risk people makes no sense, both Bush and Clinton should have known this. I also blame the GOP Congress from 2000 to 2006 and the Dems congress from 2006-2008....there were no high profile people on either side coming out saying this policy of giving loans to bad people was bad....everyone ignore dit and let it happen. Now we are left with the mess. Obama wants more regulation of this system, well regulation didn't stop Freddie and Fannie....and its because Washington isn't able to manage itself out of a wet paper bag. On the other side you have greed at the top molesting the #'s to line there own pockets. This is a perfect example of how g'ment and private corruption go hand in hand.....and the truth is none of them give a damn about the system...from Clinton to Bush.....Obama and McCain. Obama has fannie execs workign his campaign, they were part of this problem. they said or did nothing to stop this joke policy of loaning money to undeserving people. Now they want us to give them more power......insanity. Its all a joke. Both parties have failed us, Clinton and Bush have failed us....its like a game to all of them. Both sides Obama and Mccain are out there talking about health care, blah blah, neither of them ahve any pending legislation to address it.....I am convinced they both just want the power....and everyone will suffer because of it.
The system has becoe a joke, g'ment corruption combined with private corruption......and as always, we the people get the shaft!

____________________

MB1122:

Oh - and re: sb's comments earlier about McCain making gains in OR (and so forcing Obama to spend $$ here)

no

I live here, and no. I have seen literally one McCain bumper sticker in the last year - one! And neither candidate is buying any ad time here either. Why would they? OR is not in play - even rural OR which was PLASTERED with Bush/Cheney signs 4 years ago is displaying Obama's name. take OR off your "in play" list sb.

____________________

macsuk:

The Gallup tracking poll said Obama had two straight nights of very good polling and holds a 2 point lead. Also for the first time in a long time he is ahead with Intrade. I look for Obama to be up by 10 shortly. I think McPalin peaked and are about to go on a freefall...

____________________

Stillow:

@MB1122

Move here to NV and you can watch al lthe dirty ads on both sides....its become a comedy show here.

____________________

Napoleon Complex:

@greg in charlotte:

I'm self-employed and used to be a mortgage banker. I could probably buy and sell your sorry ass a few times over. I'm sorry that your greed-driven house-of-cards has fallen apart, but I got out of the business a few years ago because the handwriting was already on the wall. How's that for having a clue.

You can only blame the Republicans for this. At least the Democrats try to protect the public from greedy a-holes like you.

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

NW Patrick:

Uh... FORMER president... so your point?

A quick glance at your entries suggests that perhaps you should take your time, jot down a few notes, and have one of your liberal cohorts peruse them before entering a barrage of incoherent psychobabble into the blog. It might prevent you from looking so silly.

____________________

Stillow:

@Napoleon Complex:

Where were you mortgge bankers warning everyone of what was going on? This is not a gop problem, this is not a dem problem...this is a system problem. This credit crisis has democratic party handprints all over it....along with gop handprints. to sit and claim the dems protect anyone is a joke....they are just as corrupt as the next guy. Its all a joke....and we sit here and blog and vent our frustrations and views, and they sit in washington laughing at us all.

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Napoleon:

Is "greed" unique to the rep party? How did the dem congress protect you from the mortgage failures?

It sounds to me like you acted like a conservative and took responsibility for your own life. I'll bet you make YOUR mortgage payments.

____________________

Stillow:

@NeverMetAnHonestLib

This whole thing started with Clinton and the idea of giving everyone equal access to housing. Like I said....all liberal ideas sound good, they are always well intentioned....but when you deploy that idea it backfires. In the attempt to help some, they end up hurting everyone. The left started this mess, the right inflamed this problem....and now we are where we are, cus neither side did a damn thing.

____________________

Napoleon Complex:

@Stillow:

I don't really have time to argue this afternoon, but anyone in the business with a conscience was run over like they were standing in front of the Golden Corral on all-you-can-eat-for-free day. I don't disagree that both sides have issues, but if you look at the legislative history much of this was part of a systematic effort by the Republicans to reverse many of the laws enacted following the Great Depression to protect the public from this kind of speculation. The New Deal is the Anti-Christ to them and they wanted to destroy it while they had the power. They’re still trying to get Social Security, but I think the argument about privatization is dead – at least for a while.

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Napoleon:

Would you not agree that too many mortgages were approved for unqualified applicants?

I can't blame mortage bankers for trying to make a living. They sell anything they can get approved.

I think we can all see that our politicians in washington were more interested in claiming they were responsible for increased home ownership--particularly among those with lower incomes--than they were about protecting our future economy.

The question now is, should people re-elect those politicians--on either side. Now we're left asking which presidential candidate did anything to prevent the crisis. We're back to asking if we want someone that talks big now, or someone who acted before.

____________________

Napoleon Complex:

The vast majority of the low-income programs that you're talking about were insured under the FHA and have nothing to do with the securitized mortgages that are causing the problem today. The problem is that people who were otherwised qualified to borrow say $100K were talked into borrowing much more because the underwriting ratios (income to debt, etc)were lowered. This didn't occur until well after Bush was elected and the Republican had control of Congress. Since 2006, the Democrats have been powerless to do anything about it because they don't have enough votes to override vetoes or invoke cloture in the Senate.

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Stillow:

Conservatism made some positive headway starting in 1994 because Clinton had to accept Newt's Contract with America. It worked, and it's primarily what made Clinton look good enough to get re-elected.

Unfortunately these same newcomers lost their compasses after nearly losing in 2000 and decided to re-invent themselves as bipartisan neocons. They tried to please both sides all the time, and turned their backs on true conservative ideology. Many are now out of office and deserve to be.

If they had stayed the course, Bush wouldn't be as unpopular as he is today. He would be remembered as the president that kept the nation safe and economically secure. They all would have had to endure the incessant media hounding, but perhaps the people would have seen the liberal media for who they are even sooner.

I hope that McCain had the intestinal fortiude to return to concervative ideals and stick with them.We know that Obama is not now and will never be a conservative. By McCain picking Palin, he is at least sending the right message.

____________________

NeverMetAnHonestLib:

Napoleon:

I agree with most of what you said. I just think congress wasn't helpless the last two years. Did you even see one piece of legislation introduced in attempt to stop it?

I certainly didn't see any vetoes.

____________________



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