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POLL: CBS Obama and Rev. Wright


CBS News
(story; results)

National 3/16 through 3/17

Among likely voters who have heard about Rev. Jeremiah Wright's statements, 65% say the statements have not affected their opinions about Sen. Barack Obama, 30% say the statements made them feel "less favorable" to Obama, and 2% say "more favorable."

Among Democrats, 76% say the statements have made no difference, 15% say less favorable, 2% say more favorable.

Among Independents, 61% say no difference, 36% say less favorable, 2% say more favorable.

"Overall, unfavorable views of Obama are up somewhat from February. His favorable ratings remain largely unchanged at 44 percent, but there has been some movement from undecided views to unfavorable views, from 23 percent in February to 30 percent now."

"Independent voters - a group Obama has successfully courted in many primaries and would try to draw in the general election - still view him favorably, about the same as last month. Unfavorable views have risen among Republicans."

 

Comments
Ciccina:

I think one would need to see crosstabs to determine how electorally relevant these findings are. For one thing, since Obama seems to have locked up the African American vote, I'd think it would be more relevant to isolate the responses of white voters to see the impact. Esp. white base Dem voters, blue collar voters and older female swing voters.

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I'm getting tired of polls without crosstabs, m'self. We are, apparently, just supposed to believe them. Sigh.

Breakdowns by race would be interesting, but I'm the guy who is always going to ask for breakdowns by age - not that any of these polls have a good sample of Millenial-Generation people in them. My hunch is that Xers and Millenials really don't care about Wright at all, Boomers slightly and Traditionals a lot.

What's interesting is that only now do we get the poll, after Obama has used the flap to air a major speech and get a lot of attention. I'm starting to think that the slow response is not a bad thing after all. If this poll is even close, we were indeed in the presence of a media and opposition driven frenzy over nothing. Getting control of that right as everyone realizes it's time to let it die down might be a good strategy after all.

(How's that for reading far too much into a poll!)

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John London:

I'm just gald to see the new login proceedure has cleaned the boards up a bit :)

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John_from_Spokane,_WA:

After this, I expect the numbers to change - and how!


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23691239#23691239

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John_from_Spokane,_WA:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23691239#23691239

This was undeniably one of the best speeches in modern history. So many issues were addressed that I believe it will be weeks before all the pundits have an opportunity to address all the subject matter. It is my complete belief that he addressed everything in electrifying detail and raised many questions that America needs to think about seriously. Many of the cynics will post here and believe that he didn?t say enough. They will ask questions about why he decided to stay under such a ?racist? pastor. They will totally overlook 90% of the substance that the speech contained, and therefore will miss this major opportunity to have a serious discourse about race in America. It is so much more convenient to write off Rev. Wrights comments as racial and condemn Obama than it is to search for the validity in the statements, and examine why they were felt in the first place. Obama made a very strong point when he said that this discussion happens in Barbershops and kitchen tables across America in the Black community. People need to realize that this sentiment is real, regardless of how they personally feel about it. It is my sincerest hopes that people actually begin the discussion and not just pick it apart in a means to disregard its points. Oftentimes truth is hard to swallow, so we just ignore the realities of life. That is why they oftentimes tell people that you cannot fix something unless you first admit that a problem exists. We will see the way people try and spin this. Will America be up to the challenge to grow?

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John_from_Spokane,_WA:

"Ferraro's statement was accurate"

- Really Ciccina? So do you also agree the ONLY reason Hillary is a candidate is due to her being a WOMAN??


Okay, uh-huh, that's it.

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Ciccina:

-----------------------
(How's that for reading far too much into a poll!)
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Erik,

You're good, man. You're giving me a run for my money!

I agree, age would be very, very interesting.

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John_from_Spokane,_WA:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23691239#23691239

After watching that speech, I wish Obama could be president for the next 50 years. Good God, why risk having another GW Bush? This guy has the stuff of legends.....simply amazing. Instead of not commenting on this divisive topic and hoping it goes away, he takes it head on and makes a politically risky but brilliant speech. Where were you at this epic moment in history?

I used to be a Hillary supporter....see my previous rants against Obama, but after this, wow, even I am convinced and admit the error in my previous judgement.

I have seen the light...and he is the One.

I put his ceiling at....wait a minute, this man has no ceiling! He indeed could not only unite this country, he could unite this world. Just amazing. All other mere politicians should bow in the presence of greatness.


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John London:

I'm confused, I thought John Spokane was anti Obama? or was that just trolls?...once again thanks for the new login procedure.

Will Mccain's Iran training Al-queda comment make people scared that He actually doesn't have a clue what he is talking about? or his Putin is President of Germany comment? Passed the commander in chief test? think he just flunked it.

PPP poll for Penn looks a bit off the mark at 56/30?,I would trust quinnipaic more at 53/41

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John London:

I'm confused, I thought John Spokane was anti Obama? or was that just trolls?or a bit of sarcasm and melodrama?...once again thanks for the new login procedure.

Will Mccain's Iran training Al-queda comment make people scared that He actually doesn't have a clue what he is talking about? or his Putin is President of Germany comment? Passed the commander in chief test? think he just flunked it.

PPP poll for Penn looks a bit off the mark at 56/30?,I would trust quinnipaic more at 53/41

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Michele:

Great speech, but how inspiring was it when we can't even make it through this thread without sexism snipes?

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KS Rose:

Since it took so much work and help getting me signed in I thought I should try to post something worth reading at least once. :)

While I too would like to see an age breakdown I'm even more interested to see how the speech will effect the daily tracking polls. I'd like to see some tracking from a few days before the Wright thing surfaced and follow it out for a couple of weeks. Then I'd be interested in knowing if such tracking has been done over some other fluff up in a previous election and see how that tracks. Can anyone think of a comparable event? I was thinking of the 'Macaca' moment but since the candidate himself said that I am not sure it would be most applicable. There has been some speculation that Barack's organization seeded the Wright video to get the likely bruhaha out of the way now far enough before the next primary for the dust up to settle. I'd like to see if that's a reasonable hypothesis by looking at similar incidences and seeing their shelf life.

By the way, I love your post button.. although I found it somewhat intimidating. I guess it's up to others to decide how intelligent my comments are! LOL

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illinoisindie:

Here is my OPED:
After that speech... I supported OBama before, but wow... I want to hug every white person black person ,asian person, Hispanic and other that I can find. Thats whats so great about this man... if some of you dont see it, its okay. Previously I had said that if Obama was not on the ticket I would vote for McCain... I have decided that if he is not the democratic nominee he is still my choice and if I had to I would write his name in...This is history folks, I cant believe I just witnessed living history... regardless of how this nominating thing turns out

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Andrew_in_California:

Looks like John In Spokane, WA got his ID hijacked lol.

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Susan:

Wow, agreed illinoisindie & john!


It was a long speech, but well worth it. Has ANY politician ever taken on this issue with such force and strength? At the most politically risky, inopportune time, when everyone was saying "let it die down and go away", Obama uses the opportunity to deliver perhaps the most stunning oratory tour-de-forces I will ever witness in my lifetime. I feel privileged to have heard this man speak. What a leader. I, too, wish this man could be president forever. I know he would give it to us straight, not make up something we wanted to hear.

This must have been what it was like when John or Bobby Kennedy were running for office. Or perhaps when MLK was leading the civil rights movement. Just electric and amazing.

I started out a moderate Republican but switched to Independent after hearing Obama earlier this year. After hearing this speech, on this day, I can proudly say that this man is my Hero.


Hey Hillary - this is the essence of what we are looking for in a president. Unafraid to take on anything (even politically damaging topics) and says what he believes. Take notes.

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the_truth:

I enjoyed reading all the feel good stories, but it appears that reallity is somewhat nonexisting among many of my leftist brothers and sisters. Obama is no longer electable. Obama is in trouble of winning back his seat in Illinois after this fail bid. Now, we can rant against Hillary, vote third party, and keep the troops in Irag for a hundred years and spread war all over the globe with McCain or we can unite behind Hillary. I know many don't want to hear this, but I speak the truth and logic. Don't get carried away in emotions. obama is done, now go cry, face the truth, come back tomorrow and unite with hillary against the right. If you refuse, then may god help America. if you refuse, then the Nader factor in 2000 that caused the greenest of greenest presidential hopeful called Al Gore will repeat itself. The rich will prosper while the poor suffer. If you want inflation to continue to surpass wages, if you want America to keep going backwards, then don't listen to me, because we will all pay the price.

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It doesn't take courage to list the obvious historical wrongs of racism. Obama's speech was nothing new under the sun. It would show tremendous courage if Obama stopped quickly characterizing valid, pale criticisms or comments as "racist," as Obama's camp has done to much larger-than-life Democrats who made significant contributions to civil rights and economic justice -- Bill Clinton and Geraldine Ferraro. In the end, Obama didn't have the courage to confront Wright about his racist hyperbole, or quit that church. Oprah quit that church over Wright's conduct. Why didn't Obama follow her example?

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illinoisindie:

@the truth,
I am not leftist leaning... I am a moderate republican so I am more (mid-right) this isnt a feel good speech in the least. Obama could have taken the easy way out...(diavow, deny, repudiate, reject all political terms for its not convienient to my campaign so I dont want it around me right now). What he showed was the tenacity I want in my leader...
Anyway before the Obama haters get carried away.. lets still face facts... Obama has the most pledged delegates (that hasnt changed) he picked up more in Iowa (even after the wright thingy) and even after PA he will still have the lead going into states that favor him. So when the Obama supporters "come down from the mountain" we still have the math to celebrate

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akclsm:

the speech was inevitable. i go back and forth with black journalists and have wanted and waited for an outing on this, the media has treated him with kid gloves -- but the only way to move on is to talk race, baby.

having done that, can we talk gender bias? if hillary were to have beaten obama to punch and talked gender bias, a deeper seated and antediluvian ostracism, would the pundits have been able to commented without smirks, without ad homynyms, without adjectives like : shrill, whining, witchy?

you all know the answer. we are ready to set right one human error in order to defer the other one. men still have it their way.

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the_truth:

To Illinoisindie,
yes Obama have more delegates, yes you love him very much, but who cares. Love, nice speech, and delegate lead means nothing if he cannot win. Obama cannot and will not win in November. The democratic party is noticing and Hillary picked up two super delegates today. Obama political career may be over. I know you don't want to hear this, but facts are facts. Stop your emotional appeal, and begin to use logic. I believe that most White democrat leaning voters will turn against Obama in the coming primary, but if I am wrong, then we will be doomed in November.

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TrampsLikeUS:

Obama's speech exemplifies the reason he would make an amazing president, namely that he is able to look past racial lines and political divides and find common ground with everyone. Even his conduct with Wright shows that he was able to appreciate what the minister could offer and the perspective that he provided, while simultaneously disagreeing with some of his political views. Just as Obama said in his speech, we can't just remove from our lives/country people who say things with which we don't agree. We can denounce what they say, but we cannot ignore the person and the historicized view that each person brings to the table in our multicultural mosaic of a nation.

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illinoisindie:

@the_truth
I love my spouse not Obama.

Wow his political career is "finished" really?? So the democrats are doomed unless Hillary is the nominee...please use your magic ball to give me the lottery numbers for next week.

What evidence do you have to support your supposition laden facts and "beliefs".

If you want to support Hillary do that... I am entitled to support BO even when it gets rough for him...loyalty begts loyalty

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the_truth:

To Illinoisindie,
My evidence is the shift in the polls in the last few days. Compare all the polls to how they were a week or two ago. Do you rather to go down in flames with a losing candidate and give McCain the presidency, or do you want to win? Please stop being so much of an emotional human being. LOGIC AND REASON. You voted for Nader in 2000, didn't you?

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the_truth:

To Illinoisindie,
My evidence is the shift in the polls in the last few days. Compare all the polls to how they were a week or two ago. Do you rather to go down in flames with a losing candidate and give McCain the presidency, or do you want to win? Please stop being so much of an emotional human being. LOGIC AND REASON. You voted for Nader in 2000, didn't you?

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Obama was not Lincoln at Gettysburg today. He was a skillful politician facing possible extinction over a 20-year association with a racist. He turned a defense of a racist friend into a plea against racism. Does anyone else see the inherent contradiction of that speech? A man is known by the company he keeps. Action, not words.

Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice have managed to assume and use powerful positions without ever invoking race. Obama used false charges of racism to win South Carolina by a huge margin, and polarize the black vote. I don't want a president who is going to make the next 4 to 8 years a regression to the sixties, with every critic beging charged with racism. Obama is no unifier. If a race-free perspective were his goal, he never would have maintained ties to Wright and today's speech would not have been necessary.

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the_truth:

Obama have successfully polarized America, and the democratic party. Obama obviously resents the White part of him, if he didn't would Jeremiah Wright be is mentor for 20 years and farakhan is friend? c'mon folks, THINK.

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RS:

@akclsm:
It is possible a similar address on gender bias by Senator Clinton would have some of the reactions you described. But since she has not done so, we don't know that would be the case. Maybe she should... I think there was a very good positive reaction to Senator Clinton's Beijing speech, no?

@ "the_truth":
Hmmm... OK, let's look at the polls. Looking at Pollster.com's accumulated national polls for McCain vs Obama and McCain vs Clinton, Senator Clinton has a significant lead relative to Senator Obama in only ONE poll since (and including) March 4 - the USA Today/Gallup poll, March 14-16. Clinton-McCain 51-46, Obama-McCain 49-47. But that is canceled by the Rasmussen poll for March 14-17, in which Senator McCain beats both Democrats 48-42.

Let's wait and see what the polls say a week or a month from now, shall we, before passing judgment?

By the way, where did you get the idea that Louis Farrakhan and Senator Obama are friends, when Senator Obama rejected and denounced Farrakhan? You need to think... and maybe read.

@George:
And Senator Clinton's spouse is a proven philanderer and perjurer, and had affairs with women much less powerful then himself, which I would say is sexual harassment. What does that say for Senator Clinton as a champion of women's rights?
Now Ciccina, hold your horses - I agree that Senator Clinton is indeed a champion for women's and children's rights. But I am merely pointing out the inconsistency in George's reasoning.
As for being race-free - George, you missed the point of today's speech, unfortunately. The point being - race is an undeniable part of history, and one can never be race-free. But one can be intelligent and recognize that different folks - white or black or brown - have their own viewpoints, overt or covert. And for true progress, one needs to recognize and understand these biases.

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illinoisindie:

@the_ truth
see my earlier posts... moderate republican voting for Obama. I have changed positions from voting for Obama and if not him...Mc Cain to voting for Obama no matter what. I am not being emotional, but voting my conviction. First time ever voting for a Democrat. When Clinton was down after Obamas 11 straight victories, were you on Clinton to get out of the race and threaten that she was going down in flames. Probably not. But you want to use the recent media happenening to distract from the issues for you democrats of healthcare, iraq and the economy with your glib talk of hell and brimstone... you missed the point of the speech.

Hopefully at some point you realize that you are a democrat 9if you really are) above all else, I guess you need to answer the question for yourself, if Obama is the nominee (and he very well might be), will you jump ship and hand the election to McCain.

As for the polls we all know that Clinton would win by a margin in PA the question is how much, anything under 10pts is a "victory" for Obamas campaign. National ratings dont matter at this point only state by state polling and within 3 days of the election. we are obviously seeing the "wright effect" in these numbers at a dead heat for both democratic candidates within the margin of error. (hows that for logic!!!)
What is left to be seen is the "speech effect" and on these polling numbers and with 5 weeks to go... who knows what the next media firestorm will bring (Hillary could very well be in the midst of it). Americans have a short memory...

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Sex between consenting adults is not sexual harassment. Bill's wanderings don't say anything about women's rights.

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Andrew_in_California:

The Truth, you don't have a dog in the fight. You fool yourself in your own argument saying Obama is down in the polls vs. McCain when he has maintained a very normal relationship with McCain in the gallup polling.

You can be a doomsayer for Obama with your radical rhetoric but you have no polling proof to back up your argument. The Rev. Wright "scandal" if you even wanna call it and the "polarization" of the white to black vote is not represented any differently from region to region than it was on Super Tuesday.

People are making a 3% change in gallup polling and a 6% change in favorability as "the tides of change." Your logic, I believe, remains flawed in interpreting polling data in a small facet of time, but I know you are just pro-Hillary since if you followed your logic when Hillary dipped in the polls you would have switched camps. The truth hurts. :(

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the_truth:

Illinoisindie,
I wish that many democrats was as smart as the republicans. If we were, then Al Gore would have been president. Go support your Black power candidate. I can't convince you, you are gone and living in la la land. I pray folks like yourself don't cause McCain to be in office. If you support obama, you will loose every right to speak against racism and injustice, and stand in a position to get exactly what you bargained for. Do you feel guilty of being racist in the past and believe that supporting a Black power candidate can some how redeem you of your past guilt? Please take no offense to that question, but just ask yourself that question. If I choose to keep racist friends and mentors, then what does that say about me? do you have a racist friend or mentor that is not a family member? If Obama agrees with Wright philosophy, do you understand how dangerous that would be? don't tell me he does not, because you really don't know. THINK.

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Andrew_in_California:

I'd hope by that logic that you'd disown your family for every homophobic, racist, sexist comment since your capacity for forgiveness.

I'd hope to support a canidate that reveals his demons than a canidate that hides them like Hillary. The Truth, your euphoria for Hillary is either naive or blind. Although your posts resemble the Rovian-Clintonian fear oriented politics that many of us are trying to pass. Good luck friend in your agenda; fear can only work for so long.

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txdud:

I agree anything less than a 10 point win in PA is not a win for Clinton. I would also take it further and say it needs to be at least 20 points after they were lucky enough for Obama to find himself in this potentially explosive situation. If it passes quietly, he will be the nominee.

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illinoisindie:

@the truth,
fear-mongering at its finest...no you won't convert me to being a Hillary supporter because you are not making any point to support why I should. Other than inflammatory remarks about a man I respect(even with his imperfections). As I said you missed the point of that speech.

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RS:

@george:

The point is this: in a sexual relationship between a 22-year-old intern and a 51-year-old boss - no ordinary man, mind you, but the most powerful in the world - can genuine consent exist?

Professor Billie Wright Dziech asks that question about the affair and writes about how the Clinton-Lewinsky affair constitutes sexual harassment:

http://chronicle.com/colloquy/98/intimate/background.htm

In their love for President Clinton, many liberals overlook these abuses of power and sometimes even resort to blaming the victim. Unfortunate.

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the_truth:


You should support Hillary because she and Obama are 95% equal on the issues, and she is the only current democrat that can win in November. I know its hard to swallow, but Obama is done, and will never be elected. THINK.

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Mike_in_CA:

To the_truth,

You are perfectly allowed to make statements like the one you made at 12:03AM, but you can't just make blanket statements without backing info. You won't win over ANYONE with stuff like that.

As for the speech today, I, like many others, were moved. Impassioned. Hope renewed in a country spiraling out of control. What I don't think it will do is win over many blue collar supporters. Key word here: "many". Even if it wins over a few, which I think it will, then it will have succeeded. It will solidify support among his core supporters who have been wavering of late b/c of the Wright thing...

One example: My indie-repub leaning mother called me to tell me she was moved to tears when she heard his speech. that's impressive. he'll solidify that "base"

One last thought, on these head-to-head "polls", I'll just remind everyone that John Kerry was beating GW in March of 2004 by 5-10 points.

Enough said.

By the way, this is the REAL Mike in CA, not the poser from the last few days.

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Thatcher:

(Sorry for the long post ... for those who have interest in some background - please read all. For those who want to get to the point, read the first paragraph and the last 2 paragraphs - sorry again)

To everyone - before the 2009 Civics textbooks get edits about what to say about Senator Barack Obama - let's at least wait for 3-6 days of tracking polls and see what the initial response is to Tuesday's speech.

I, personally, was moved. I originally was a Governor Bill Richardson supporter and shifted my support to Senator Obama after Governor Richardson dropped out of the race. I'm also the "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington" kind of guy.

However, I am also a realist - one who saw the 2000 General Election fiasco from a front row seat in West Palm Beach, FL - I worked there the entire year for the Democratic Party of Florida.

I was a Governor Dean supporter in 2004 when, for the most part, because his campaign had negative relations with the press the "Dean Scream" was played ad infinitum on every news station. I never became a believer in Senators Kerry and Edwards - however, I voted for them and saw the Ohio fiasco from my home in Des Moines, IA.

Now, comes 2008, where I sit in Des Moines, IA again. And every time someone tries to stick something to Senator Obama - it seems he is able to deflect and deflate the issue. The "reject and denounce" issue from Senator Clinton in the debate about Minister Farrakhan came back to bite both her (with Ferraro and others) and Senator McCain (with Hagee and others). Now it has come back to Senator Obama again, and he has made his statement of his beliefs and insights on the racial viewpoint of America and the hope that this starts a new chapter in America.

Let's wait and see. Wednesday, he has his speech on National Security. Thursday, his speech on the Economy. Both of these will also feature Iraq. On Sunday, Gallup and Rasmussen will release their tracking polls where all three days in their tracking will be after these speeches. If we see if the American people are sway one way or another, we'll see the immediate result then.

However, no matter what is shown on Sunday ... we are a little over 7 months away from the General Election. And I would agree that 7 months out isn't a complete picture - but it will give all three sides (McCain supporters, Clinton supporters and Obama supporters) much to think about and where they need to go from there.

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Monica's own testimony indicates that it was consensual. Her testimony also shows that Bill tried immediately to break it off, but she continued to pursue him and "fell in love." That is not harassment. Bill was not Monica's direct supervisor. Monica had already had a relationship with an older, married man in the past. She knew exactly what she was doing. Feminism is not intended to supress a women's conscious sexual choices. Bill was punished harshly for a brief, pathetic sexual exchange with a women actively pursuing him. It is the only such extramarital activity in the 8 years of his presidency and there is no evidence of any since. So what? Infidelity is more common than not in marriage. There are consequences, and Bill was made to suffer on a grand scale for a private matter. Bill and Hillary loved each other enough to stay together after that horrible spectacle. It is a testament to her strength, and no business of the public.

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illinoisindie:

@thatcher
If you are an Obama supporter, talk about logic... the polls say he reaches the educated (and i dont just mean college educated) people more than she does...point proven. Regardless of your affiliation though well written, thoughtful post. Every seasoned political mind knows that when you get in "trouble" in any election the first thing to do is keep your base from fracturing. To put it simply when you are put on the defense- defend your base... For those Obama supporters concerned about the "wright issue" he probably put them back on solidly in his camp. For me personally it was the (I will not throw you under the bus after 20 years thingy... the reason varied by Obama person I spoke to) These dead heat polling numbers wont change (but the speech will stop his slide) until he goes on the "attack" again (with his speeches on NS, economy and IRAQ) to start getting people from the other camps into his.
I have not seen this kind of "rubber-glue" politics in my lifetime.

@the truth
while I agree that Hillary and BO have essentially the same platform, I am not voting for the party ( I am not a democrat), I don't necessarily believe in universal healthcare (BO has me convinced that we should give it a shot) I do want out of IRAQ, but even those two things are not enough to swing my party affiliation, to bring me to the point of well if not him then Hillary. I am voting for the leadership qualities that he has displayed regardless of his party. I think about the great leaders around the world and in the US, past and present, and he is just like them...The man has caused me to be willing to discard the partisanship I have had since being able to vote, anyone that can make me think outside of the box like that deserves my vote.
Regardless of how this election turns out and of course I want him to win, what he has done for you democrats is amazing. He is delivering the Millenial generation into the democratic party. He is helping to set up the party for the next 40 years (like the republicans have for the last 40 years) to have the capacity to dominate the voting blocks. Regardless of whether you like him or not, you should respect what he is doing for the democrats.

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the_truth:

obama have most of you convince on rhetoric and empty speeches. illinoisindie, i guess having two masters, speaking 3 language, and finishing my doctorate makes me less educated than you. hitler fooled a nation, obama is fooling lost wanderers in search of a saviour.

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Thatcher:

the_truth -

I can appreciate, since you think Obama is fooling people, a comparison between Obama and someone LESS offensive in the world.

But to compare any of the major party candidates; Clinton, Obama, or McCain to Hitler, give the appearance you are either quite dense or full of vitriolic hate. None of these three are anywhere close to the mass murderer that Hitler was.

I am an Obama supporter - but I would NEVER in my life compare either Clinton or McCain (or Bush) to Hitler.

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lsmakc:

i've never been so irritated by a speech in my life. even before delivering it, the media was primed for the 'greatness' of it. but i suggest to one and all, that bad polls in pa. do a lot to jog a liar's memory over two days.

if you have any honesty at all in your systems, you'll hit this link, the anderson cooper interview 48 hours before his 'gettysburg, i mean philly address". http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/03/15/cooper.obama.pastor.intv.cnn

at that point he said, and i paraphrase in the name of accuracy...'i never heard the harangues, if i did i would have left the church.'

then re-listen to his pulp fiction of yesterday. if that's what you want in office, a forked tongue snake charmer, then why did we throw over saddam? the two are cut from the same cloth.

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Susan:

At this point we know that:

1) Obama will end the contest with the most pledged delegates,

2) Obama will likely end the contest with the popular vote tally,

3) Obama will end the contest with the most money and greatest fundraising potential,

4) Obama will end the contest with the most states,

5) Obama will end the contest with the best poll numbers against McCain, and

6) Obama will end the contest with the most primary state victories and caucus state victories.


So what's left for Team Clinton? She has to convince a majority of the super delegates to cast their vote for her, so how does she get those supers to ignore all of the above Obama advantages in order to cast their ballot for the candidate who is losing?

Apparently, it's a two-pronged strategy.

The first is what we've been seeing this week -- tear down a candidate who has inspired and given hope to millions by appealing to white resentment and turning him into the "black candidate". It's ugly and revolting, but the Clinton campaign is banking on it scaring people away from Obama. And by "people", I mean "super delegates".

Remember, Clinton can't win based on the math. The rules -- the "process" -- are her enemy. The only way she can win is by having the super delegates ignore all of Obama's clear advantages -- a coup by super delegate. And the way that coup is by tearing Obama down and discrediting the process that gave Obama those advantages.

But here's the rub -- the "process that gave Obama those advantages" includes latte drinkers, and black people, and young people, and red state Democrats, and small state Democrats, and blue states that voted for Obama.

So it's a sort of Catch-22 -- she needs the super delegates to abandon the winner for her loser campaign, but the way she's trying to win them over is by insulting their very states and constituencies.

Clinton is in a bad place. She is behind in every metric that matters, and has been relegated to trashing our likely nominee and entire Democratic Party constituencies and states in order to make the case that she's somehow "more electable" despite all evidence to the contrary. Unfortunately for her, the super delegates aren't all cloistered in New York or in DC.

They represent the United States of America. And outside of Clinton's Blue bastions, her insults aren't winning any new converts.

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lsmakc:

'susan' sends this same message to all the blogs,over and over. i saw it on huffington too. i hope this person doesn't work for obama. i hope this stays a discussion of regular folks not just another political tool for rabid electioneering.

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Susan:

lsmakc-

You make no sense whatsoever. Back to the name-calling, huh? You are a JOKE!

Why don't you go post on foxnews.com ? I believe that is better suited for your nonsense.


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lsmakc:

i've never been so irritated by a speech in my life. even before delivering it, the media was primed for the 'greatness' of it. but i suggest to one and all, that bad polls in pa. do a lot to jog a liar's memory over two days.

if you have any honesty at all in your systems, you'll hit this link, the anderson cooper interview 48 hours before his 'gettysburg, i mean philly address". http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/03/15/cooper.obama.pastor.intv.cnn

at that point he said, and i paraphrase in the name of accuracy...'i never heard the harangues, if i did i would have left the church.'

then re-listen to his pulp fiction of yesterday. if that's what you want in office, a forked tongue snake charmer, then why did we throw over saddam? the two are cut from the same cloth.

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lsmakc:

actually, 'susan'... i am not finding fault with your candidate per se. i am finding fault with having had to see this same post too many times thus, causing anyone to suspect that it is a plant. as such, i am signing off.. because again, this blog has been hijacked.

it might be interesting that i share some reactions to your candidate with many other who bailed out on him, reactions that have developed over the fall and winter such that i started out discussing with my black journalist friends on a private blog, the
terrific fact of his candidacy. they were the angry ones, i was the one who begged them to go easy on the guy.

but as an american, one who does not much cotton to brainwashing or corporate manipulation in any respect, i felt that all the candidates were getting sidelined to accommodate this man's upward trajectory, a log cabin story the press wanted to write very badly.

i like fairness. this was not fair. i had moved from biden, to obama and then, finally to hillary because she was abused. yes, even white women can be that. it's a more subtle and nastier kind. one that can't be dated with the voyage of a ship called La Amistad. it is a miasmic, insidious and deeply psychological module that so many cannot literally live without.

what i do not like is lying. obama has demonstrated a tendency to do that and smoothing it over with sanctimony. i would ask you, whether you think that a single speech in october 2002 constitutes judgement when he never took to the hustings on behalf of themuch ridiculed cindy sheehan? where was he? where was in print if he was too cowardly to walk with her? where was he in radio, where was he in flesh and blood?

the most recent example of his prevaricating tendency has been his total back tracking on wright. if you were to take a hot cup of milk and settle down a bit, 'susan' you might see the same if you listened to the anderson cooper link.

i didn't make obama say these things. he spoke freely and totally refuted what he later said in the most politically savvy and choreographed speech of all campaigning history. in fact, it reaked of pure hollywood.

but aside from that, 'susan', i drifted from obama's camp because he was false and because he was prematurely crowned before the rest of the US had a chance think for themselves.

if you deem the recent behavior of the fourth estate to be equitable, then fine. but i strongly believe, that the press is fomenting inevitable race riots by this predilection. they have built a hornets nest that will explode in their and our faces.

it may be time for a black president, it may be time for a woman. but it is never time for lies, for arm twisting and for a lock down on fair reporting. i will vote for the human being. your endless plants will not sway me nor anyone else.

____________________

NYREDS:

WOW is right! Not the speech but the responses. Wish I had the koolaide concession for this group.
Please tell me one SPECIFIC thing this man has accomplished or proposed. He's slick alright, no doubt about it. All his speeches have been full of "Hope & Change". Nothing about what he hopes to change or how he hopes to change anything.
Please also tell me how this brilliant man attended Rev. Wright's church for 20 years w/o being aware that the good Rev was spouting some of the most vile, hateful rhetoric I've ever heard. I'll give you a clue-he knew & he agrees with the Rev!!! Otherwise why did he stay? There are a lot of other churches that don't preach hate.
Also remember his wife's "I'm finally proud of my country for the first time"? This Ivy League educated lawyer eho's last job paid $319K has finally shaken off the yoke of oppression I guess.
Bottom line-Barak Hussain Obama scares the pure HELL out of me. Mostly because you sheep may elect him while having no clue as to what he's really all about.

____________________

Susan:

'lsmakc'


I'M STILL WAITING FOR ANY EVIDENCE OF EVEN ONE LIE. THROWING OUT BOGUS FALSE ACCUSATIONS WILL GET YOU NOWHERE.


[We deleted the rest of this comment as per our comments policy]

____________________

Susan:

"the truth" - Could you have a more ironic user name?


I'm sure those University of Phoenix degrees come in handy at the McDonalds drive thru.


I've actually heard more coherent, viable arguments from kids in half literate third world countries than the nonsense you spew.


The very notion that Hillary is more electable than Obama is sheer and utter garbage, and you know it.

Ask an honest Rebulican you know who they want to face in November. It is not even a contest. Ten out of ten will say Clinton.

Obama has started a movement. LIVE WITH IT!

Don't be jealous because because you support a lackluster, unappealing, shameless, wife of an adulterer. What has she done again??? Oh yeah, failed to get universal health care passed when that was her ONLY responsibilty in the 90's, failed to step up and challenge Bush on anything - including allowing him to start the war in Iraq, failed to run any kind of decent or honorable campaign, and instead said that the Republican front runner was better qualified than her Democratic opponent to be Commander-in-Chief.

Some candidate. Some Democrat. Some Patriot.

No wonder people are going to vote for Nader if Clinton somehow steals the nomination.

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Ciccina:

[comment deleted]


Did that just violate the comments policy?

[yes it did]

____________________

illinoisindie:

amazing... if you support BO you are sheep but if you support Hillary clinton you are what??? Anyway, I am not looking for a saviour I already have one...I am looking for a leader. The more you clinton people rant on about her (knowing some of her less than auspicious character traits, the more turned off people get) I continue to wait to hear exactly what she has personally accomplished herself without clinging to the cost tails of her husband. If we really wanted to have an experience argument you should all be voting for Mccain...

NOTE:
New PPP and Zogby poll Obama is back ahead of Clinton.. I wonder why...as I said America is a lot smarter and progressive than some of you people give her credit for..

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lsmakc:

eric - some bloggers who i will not NAME are not benefiting your blog at all.
until she or he or them is blocked i am off this site. this is absolute name calling and totally inappropriate for adult discussion.

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Susan:

[comment deleted]

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Susan:

lsmakc,

Then maybe YOU should leave. Your nonsense belongs on foxnews's blog, not here. Thanks!


____________________

RS:

@george:

Not sure if you read the article I linked.
Ms Lewinsky may have said the sex was consensual, but the article clearly points out that in cases of vast power difference, genuine consent is very unlikely. President Clinton may not have been Ms Lewinsky's direct supervisor, but he was the top boss, and Ms Lewinsky's hero.

Your comments about Ms Lewinsky's past prove my point - folks would rather blame the victim than acknowledge that their beloved hero, President Clinton, was a habitual philanderer and guilty of sexual harassment.

____________________

Ciccina:

@RS ["It is possible a similar address on gender bias by Senator Clinton would have some of the reactions you described. But since she has not done so, we don't know that would be the case. Maybe she should... I think there was a very good positive reaction to Senator Clinton's Beijing speech, no?"]

Hillary *mentioned* gender in a speech at Wellesley and was roundly criticized for "playing the gender card" and "playing the victim." Media men (Matthews et al) led the attack without the slightest bit of self-consciousness.

Indeed, her speech in Beijing was enormously important, as everyone involved in international development policy knows. In addition, Hillary spoke about women's rights in many of the countries she visited, and made a point of meeting with civil society women's rights leaders (thereby elevating their status).

This was a major part of the work Obama himself dismissed as "having tea in exotic locales" and more recently with "I don't know what she was doing." Its part of the work his supporters dismiss when they say "she never did anything for women."

My point [here it comes!] is that civil rights and women's rights are not viewed equivalently. Everyone agrees the civil rights movement was important and acknowledges the bravery and sacrifice of civil rights activists. Pretty much no one outside of the feminist community acknowledges that the women's rights movement did *anything* beneficial beyond getting us the pill, and feminist activists are routinely mocked and insulted ("feminazis" etc).

Its safe to say that had Clinton given a major speech about the legacy and current impact of sexism, misogyny and violence against women, she would have been roundly mocked, condemned and/or dismissed. Since women's rights aren't seen as important by our media (that is, unless its "a woman's right to look totally hot / drive an SUV / get her kids' clothes really really clean"), the speech would be represented as pandering or "trying to get people to feel sorry for her." There's no political context of discussion about systemic patterns of discrimination and abuse against women the way there is for civil rights. It wouldn't fit our political narrative.

And I predict that if Clinton so much as mentions sexism - or anything about "women" - from this point forward, the Matthews gang will say she's being divisive or just trying to copy Obama.

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the_truth:

[comment deleted]

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the_truth:

Obama is so done, finally he is done.

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RS:

Hey Ciccina:

The polls do suggest that sexism is perceived as less of a problem than racism, which is unfortunate.

Still, one mention does not a complete address make. And definitely not something as off-hand as "all boys' club of Presidential politics." That's the closest I quickly got to a quote, here:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2007/11/did_hillary_play_the_gender_card.php

After all, a defining characteristic of Senator Obama's speech was that it risked being called "an exercise in excuse." And I am sure many folk look at it that way ("he didn't denounce and reject the pastor!") But he took the risk - of trusting the American people (may sound somewhat grandiose, but true). And she hasn't.

Should she really care about Mathews et al.? Women do form 55-60% of the Democratic electorate, after all... If Mathews et al. pile on and wag their fingers, it's gotta help her, a la New Hampshire.

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