Pollster.com

Articles and Analysis

 

US: National Survey (NBC/WSJ 5/6-10)

Topics: National

NBC News / Wall Street Journal
5/6-10/10; 1,000 adults, 3.1% margin of error
Mode: Live telephone interviews
(NBC: story, results; WSJ: story, results)

National

Approval / Disapproval
Obama: 50% Approve, 44% Disapprove (chart)
Obama Economy: 48 / 46 (chart)
Obama Terrorism: 48 / 42
Congress: 21 / 72 (chart)

Positive / Negative
Barack Obama: 49 / 38 (chart)
Democratic Party: 37 / 42
Republican Party: 30 / 42
Tea Party Movement: 31 / 30
British Petroleum: 11 / 45
Charlie Crist: 8 / 16
General Motors: 37 / 27
Citibank: 10 / 43
Toyota: 31 / 34
Goldman Sachs: 4 / 50

Preference for Congress after 2010 elections
Democratic Control: 44%, Republican Control: 44%

Recently Passed Health Care Plan
38% Good idea, 44% Bad idea (chart)

"The Arizona law makes it a state crime to be in the U.S. illegally. It requires local and state law enforcement officers to question people about their immigration status if they have reason to suspect a person is in the country illegally, making it a crime for them to lack registration documents."
64% Support, 34% Oppose

"How likely do you think it is that the decision in Arizona to promote strong enforcement of immigrants who are NOT in the U.S. legally will lead to discrimination of Hispanic or Latino immigrants who ARE in the U.S. legally?"
66% Likely, 31% Unlikely

More Off-Shore Drilling
60% Support, 34% Oppose

"Do you think that the federal government is doing enough or is not doing enough to deal with the environmental problems caused by the recent Gulf Coast oil spill?"
43% Enough, 45% Not Enough

"In general, do you approve or disapprove of using racial or ethnic profiling in combating terrorism?"
51% Approve, 43% Disapprove

State of the Country
34% Right Direction, 56% Wrong Track (chart)

Party ID
32% Democrat, 24% Republican, 40% independent (chart)

 

Comments
LordMike:

In other words, 2/3ds of Americans think it's OK to have laws that discriminate against brown Americans. Sad.

"More Off-Shore Drilling
60% Support, 34% Oppose"

Insane! Absolute insanity... people are friggin' masochists...

____________________

Field Marshal:

No, in other words 2/3rds of Americans are smart enough to read, cogitate, and determine the law in non-populistic and exaggerated terms.

____________________

Farleftandproud:

Lordmike I don't know where this country is heading. For being a so called free democracy, it is very hard for me to see the country that way. The country has a way of retreating to these measures, yet they don't seem to care about moving our country forward. It is really sad.

____________________

iVote:

+5 point swing for Obama on economy/overall approval.

____________________

Farleftandproud:

The GOP clearly has a dilemma. They know Arizona's law and others like that are popular, yet they know that down the road, the hispanic vote in presidential elections and many districts throughout America would backfire on them, if 80 percent of Hispanics who vote could vote Democratic in 2010.

THey they have a misinformed public who supports racial profiling and rounding up people, and filling up our jails with illegals and send them back, while other serious crimes go under the radar.

Surprise surprise, this is exactly what I predicted.

____________________

Ned:

This poll uses 40 percent independent, probably makes it more accurate since voters are fleeing national parties.

____________________

Farleftandproud:

They said this is the 1st time in 6 years the GOP has tied the Democrats, but I am sure the Dems are going to fight back. The GOP had a 3 point lead in 2002 and 2004, yet they didn't gain more than about 12 seats in those years in congress.

in 1994 I know the polls showed the GOP with an average of a 1 or 2 point lead and they got 53 seats, but polls are better today and Dems have more money than they had in those days.

____________________

LordMike:

FM,

2/3rds of the country approve the AZ law

2/3rds of the country think the law will be discriminatory to U.S. citizens and legal residents of hispanic origin.

Now, they might not be the same 2/3ds, but I bet there's a lot of overlap. So, what this says is that, even though the respondents think the law will be severely abusive towards a group of American citizens, the respondents really don't care. Screw them. After all, the the respondents feel that they are inherently inferior and deserve second class status.

____________________

Farleftandproud:

This is particularly scary because Latino's are not a minority in many areas and many Whites are married to latinos including Jeb Bush. They have become part of our culture in CA, FL AZ and many other places with street names, architecture, food and so much more.

Nothing against people from Pakistan or the Middle east, but at least racial profiling, I can understand more. I mean they are mostly good hard working people, yet it was understandable why immigration had to be extra cautious about their past.

____________________

Farleftandproud:

I am not justifying racial profiling for any race or nationality of people, but I think after 9/11 I could understand the frenzy moreso after the fall of the twin towers and an attack on our way of life.

When it comes to protecting our borders, AZ law was poorly constructed. Besides Obama is going to have to have his own immigration plan. Lets see how he does with that before other states try to take the law into their own hands.

____________________

Shannon,Dallas,Texas:

As a resident of Texas, I can tell you that the AZ law is flat wrong.

OUT OF FEAR, we are allowing the rights of American citizens to be trampled upon.

America is no longer America as far as Latin American's are concerned. You might think that's ok, but in 20 years they could easily be in the majority.

When they point out that most prescription and casual drug abusers are Caucasian, that most domestic terrorists are Caucasian, and that we should change our profiling tactics, DON'T COMPLAIN.

It's sad. I have no faith that the Supreme Court will stand up for the marginal segments of our society as it has in the past. Today, whoever wields more power or has more money, matters most.

____________________

Bigmike:

I don't think there are many people that want to trample on the rights of others. How about just enforce the law? Our govt has refused to enforce the existing laws and refused to build a fence or in any way get control of the border. The govt has created the situation we find our selves in.

It is a slap in the face to those of us who try to live by the rules and certainly try not to break the law. Being here illegally is just that. It's illegal. And nothing is done about it. What laws do I get to break and get a free pass on? How about insider trading. No one gets hurt and I get a better standard of living for me and my family. Sounds like the same deal you want to give the illegals.

Pointing out that these peoploe are criminals makes me a racist because most of the illegals have slightly darker skin than I do, or so you libs say. You think I would be OK with 20-30 million illegals if they were white? Breaking the law is breaking the law, whether you are Mexican or French. Your charges of racism and discrimination are as empty as your liberal heads.

____________________

Farleftandproud:

I can sort of understand your point Big Mike, but our lack of strict immigration laws are not Obama's fault. Bush tried to do immigration reform and it failed because the parties bickered too much and failed to come up with the resources to fix the problem.

What I am not sure you understand is that this law was an attack on about 1/3 of Arizona's Hispanic population, even those who are law abiding citizens. It was a clear attack on a racial group, and as far as enforcing the law, the law enforcement in AZ will likely not be able to curtail the problem. It is sort of a simple solution, just like Prohibition was supposed to solve the american problem of drunkeness. It didn't work.

It is a devisive law, and will be struck down in the courts.

____________________

obamalover:

@Bigmike

How is harassing Mexican Americans stopping illegal immigration?

Why do you guys never demand jail time for employers of illegal immigrants with the same passion as you demand second class status for Hispanic looking people? You wouldn't want to piss off your corporate masters now would you?

____________________

LordMike:

"You think I would be OK with 20-30 million illegals if they were white?"

Maybe not... After all, there was a great hatred for Irish Immigrants back in the late 19th and early 20th century. They were white, but they were also different... and Catholic, back when Catholics had crosses burned upon their front lawns by the KKK...

Back then, many businesses had signs on their shops:

"Irish need not apply."

Do you really want to go back to that? What do you say to a hispanic citizen who's a fifth generation American when they are presumed to be "illegal" until proven innocent? That their citizenship is worth less 'cos their skin is brown? That may not be the intent of this legislation, but it is the reality of it.

____________________

Bigmike:

Same old lib crap. It's not BO's fault, its Dubyas. The both have the same laws on the books and neither one had the cajones to enforce them. Reform is not the issue. Stop the flood first. We have laws designed to do just that. And the govt refuses to.

This is not an attack on anyone, unless they happen to be here illegally. If you are legal what are they going to do to you?

Obamacare is more likely to be thrown out by the courts than this law is.

____________________

Shannon,Dallas,Texas:

@Bigmike

"Your charges of racism and discrimination are as empty as your liberal heads."

This says it all:

"In general, do you approve or disapprove of using racial or ethnic profiling in combating terrorism?"
51% Approve, 43% Disapprove

The question is do you approve or disapprove?

My guess is that you approve. I disapprove of any form of profiling.

In the past few years, many people of color have been released from prison after having been on death row for 10 to 20 years because they fit a profile.

All I have to say is that, when you fit the profile, don't complain.

____________________

obamalover:

@BigMike

Um actually Mexican Americans will be stopped if they are suspected of being illegal. You must be living in a dream world if you think profiling works 100% of the time, or even 25% of the time. Hispanics who are here legally will be harassed. So yes, it is an attack on them.

____________________

Bigmike:

@obamalover

How is doing absolutely nothing solving the problem?

And I have no issues with jailing or levying fines against those who employ illegals. To the maximum extent of the law. Remember, my gripe was that no one is enforcing the law. Hell, lets make it a capital crime. And save your liberal bumper sticker slogans.

@Lordmike

Stop, your gonna make me cry.

Did I say we should have signs saying hispanics need not apply? Dis I say anyone was guilty until proven innocent? I said get control of the border and enforce the law. Period.

____________________

jamesia:

I don't think either law will get thrown out - HCR or AZ immigration. I do, however, think the AZ law will motivate Latinos to the polls in a way more devastating to the GOP than HCR will motivate Tea Party members against Dems. Areas with high Latino populations are more likely to have GOP reps ... whereas concentrations of Tea Party members are likely already represented by GOP. Thus, in terms of local elections, the AZ law will have a greater effect on turnout.

What's interesting (IMO) about this poll is that Obama is shoring up support for his role in the economy, and that is the single biggest issue of this year's election. Should the economy turn around, the Dems will stay in control.

____________________

StatyPolly:

Asinine debate.

If you are illegal, you don't have the right not to be questioned. If you are legal, but have grounds for concern, like you don't speak half-way decent English, CARRY A DAMN ID! Or you risk being detained at your local PD, until your identity is proven. WHAT MONSTROUS ATROCITIES!

I have to carry a drivers license, proof of insurance and vehicle registration every time I want to step out of the house.

My local libation vendor is a blatant profiler. What's more, he seems to rejoice in his prejudice. Right over the cash register, there is a large sign - WE CARD IF YOU LOOK UNDER 30.

Where is ACLU when you need them?

____________________

obamalover:

@BigMike

Where are all of the astroturf tea parties calling for jailing corporate CEO's? I don't see them. Maybe I missed that one. Or maybe they are too scared of pissing off their corporate sponsors.

____________________

Bigmike:

SelfRighteousShannon

I will answer your question, no matter how stupid it is. No, I do not approve of racial profiling. My point was that we have arrived at this sad state of affairs because we have a govt that will not enforce the law. You libs can call me all the names you want, it does not change the facts. If the govt would do its job none of this, such as the AZ law, would be happening. And if govt continues to not do its job, things will get even worse.

____________________

obamalover:

@BigMike

It is not the job of the government to profile people and harass Hispanics

____________________

Bigmike:

obamalover

Drag a few CEO's out and shoot them for all I care. At least the govt would be seen as taking some kind of action.

Did I mention that I could care less about Tea Parties? Those kooks are way too liberal for me. At least on fiscal and national security matters. Social issues, who cares. Leave me alone and I will leave you alone.

____________________

StatyPolly:

"In general, do you approve or disapprove of using racial or ethnic profiling in combating terrorism?"

I have a friend, a former co-worker, who is Turkish. He looks very middle-eastern, and actually carries an uncanny resemblance to one of the 19 9/11 hijackers. He is also a huge lib.

He says that HE WOULD FEEL SAFER going on a plane, if TSA profiled people who looked like him more. And of course he is right. What the hell is the point inconveniencing everyone, and checking Granny Smith's knickers? To make the people who do fit the profile feel better? They don't. Non-terrorist people who may look like a terrorist profile would prefer that they are scrutinized a little closer, rather than every damn passenger, so that everyone, including them, spend an hour less in line.

If AZ law will reduce the huge illegal alien caused clime wave, and it will, do your part, help out the society at large and CARRY YOUR DAMN ID!

____________________

Bigmike:

@obamalover

"It is not the job of the government to profile people and harass Hispanics"

It is the job of the govt is to secure our borders. Every other govt in the world manages to.

____________________

Bigmike:

Excuse the typing. My mind sometimes outruns my fingers. And I do little proof reading. I figure I am not getting graded, and if I am it won't go in my permanent record.

____________________

sjt22:

Non-terrorist people who may look like a terrorist profile would prefer that they are scrutinized a little closer, rather than every damn passenger, so that everyone, including them, spend an hour less in line.

Spoken like someone who has never been wrongly accused or profiled.

Its naive to think that profiling is any sort of answer. It's also naive to think that it doesn't already happen unofficially, but I guess it makes conservatives feel tough to rail about how we are so "PC" and we need to profile them darn terrorists, as if they have signs and special hats which point them out.

Go ahead, profile all the Arabs. They'll send a black man. So profile them. They'll find a white guy. Or an Asian. Or a woman. Or an old lady like "granny smith".

If AZ law will reduce the huge illegal alien caused clime wave, and it will, do your part, help out the society at large and CARRY YOUR DAMN ID!

The crime rate has been falling for years in AZ, as well as other border states. What's more, the specific crimes used to sell this stupid law were related to drug cartels. No amount of hassling day laborers and Mexican Americans is going to fix that, its an entirely different problem. But sure, if you think trampling on the rights of citizens and putting police in an awful situation is going to "fix" things, have at it.

____________________

sjt22:

It is the job of the govt is to secure our borders. Every other govt in the world manages to.

HAHAHAHA! Incredible that you believe that. Lots of borders are unsecured and exist only on maps. Those that are "secured" are usually done so violently by oppressive regimes in order to control and terrorize their own people.

We could certainly do it. All it would take is hundreds of thousands of troops, billions of dollars (hopefully paid for with new taxes), and for the businesses of America to stop relying heavily on illegal labor in order to raise their profit margins. Should be pretty easy.

____________________

StatyPolly:

"Spoken like someone who has never been wrongly accused or profiled"

Au contraire mon ami. I have in fact been detained by INS at an immigration check point near San Clemente, CA, on my drive from San Diego to LA. Took 15 minutes to establish my identity thru SS# and I was on my way. Didn't get tasered, waterboarded, get my nails pulled off or nothing.

B.F.D.

CARRY YOUR ID!

____________________

tjampel:

@Bigmike:

"SelfRighteousShannon

I will answer your question, no matter how stupid it is. No, I do not approve of racial profiling. My point was that we have arrived at this sad state of affairs because we have a govt that will not enforce the law. You libs can call me all the names you want, it does not change the facts. If the govt would do its job none of this, such as the AZ law, would be happening. And if govt continues to not do its job, things will get even worse."

OK...let's look at the facts. They actually do matter a lot more than what libs call you and how much offense you take to libs calling you names. I'm not saying I have a monopoly on the facts btw. Please feel free to post YOUR FACTS which show that illegal immigration is out of control (as opposed to illegal drug running and trafficking...see below!)

The border fence has been going up at a rapid clip and is almost finished. Obama has seriously beefed up border patrols, provided more training and equipment for the Mexican army to fight drug traffickers, as well since he's taken office.

For example, here's an interesting tidbit coming out of Mexico translated from "El Sol" (from 2/4/10):

The Senate of the Republic (of the Mexican government) approved sending a message to President Felipe Calderon so that he may ask the Government of the United States to reconsider the anti-immigrant measures intended to be taken in the neighboring country’s budget for 2011. All political parties of the Senate reproached the policy change of direction of the American President, Barack Obama, who has decided to go back on the promise he made to all the Hispanic groups that supported him, and now he insists on closing the border. The government of Barack Obama seeks to increase the funds to reinforce border security with 4.6 billion dollars to support 20 thousand agents of the Border Patrol, as well as to finish the first portion of the 'virtual fence.'"

Another fact..crime in border areas in AZ, at least, are flat and, overall, AZ's crime rate has consistently gone down over the last 10 years.

Also, the amount of illegal immigration has dropped over the last couple of years.

Here are the official DHS Gov stats for illegal immigration during two periods of time:

2000-2004 ......................3,040,000
2005-2008 ......................910,000

And there's this from the same report:

"Between 2000 and 2007, the unauthorized population grew by 3.3 million from 8.5 million to 11.8 million."

and this:

"Between January 2008 and January 2009, the number of unauthorized immigrants living in the United States decreased seven percent from 11.6 million to 10.8 million"

Now I agree that narco-trafficking is wreaking havoc in AZ. We need to do better to fight it; this is something that can and should be addressed in a new Immigration Bill. I would support calling out the National Guard and a whole host of other actions.

However, to claim that illegal immigration is somehow tied to drug running is foolish. To claim that the AZ law is going to make fighting narco-trafficking more effective is equally foolish. If anything it makes it harder to get the cooperation of Hispanics who might otherwise be willing to cooperate with authorities. It removes any reason they might still have to even cooperate with authorities.

____________________

Bigmike:

You libs have to puke out the party line. It's those dirty corporate CEOs.

Do you know any? I do. And most live in mortal fear of the IRS or violating some part of Sarbanes-Oxley. They are a bunch of wimps, at least when it comes to dealing with the govt.

The best laugh I have had lately is after Obamacare passed and all of the corporations had to take a loss on their balance sheets because of it. And no one in the administration had a clue that was coming, much less that it was required by law and GAAP. These goobers arent any smarter than Dubya was.

____________________

tjampel:

@StatyPolly:

Terror networks have already been making efforts to recruit granny and any blond-haired blue eyed death-wish-addled crazy they can find. Going forward I would expect them to ONLY use non-muslim-looking types; they're very aware of our views on profiling; they adjust to existing conditions and will make every effort to find people who will NOT get their ass profiled.

So, if you are actually suggesting to go easier on those who don't "look like terrorists" so you can sleep a little later for those 6:00 am flights...then I think your strategy will make this country less safe

____________________

obamalover:

@BigMike

Who is providing the jobs for illegals?

You are so angry at people who are poor, needy and desperate, yet you are so protective of the rich and powerful. Sickening.

____________________

Bigmike:

I am not really interested in any "official" govt statistics, American or Mexican. They usually have nothing in common with fact. Anyone who really believes there are only 12 million illegals in this country is naive. If someone is here illegally, do you think when the govt says "All illegals raise your hand" that they are going to do it? I said they were illegal, not stupid.

My point was, in reference to the above poll numbers, that public opinion is moving the way it is because the govt, BOTH parties, has not enforced the law. And people are sick and tired of it.

I never said I was in favor of violating anyones rights. Look at the first line of my first post.

"I don't think there are many people that want to trample on the rights of others."

Let me see if I understand the liberal mind correctly. Violating the law is OK if you are a minority? Laws only have to be obeyed if you are a rich, old, white guy, or anyone else who is foolish enough to be conservative. Am I reading you guys right?

____________________

Bigmike:

@obamalover

"You are so angry at people who are poor, needy and desperate, yet you are so protective of the rich and powerful. Sickening."

Don't they still teach reading at Lib school? I am not advocating protecting anyone who is breaking the law, no matter how much money they have. And the people I am angry at are in the WH and Congress.

____________________

StatyPolly:

TJ,

No, I don't propose profiling based on racial features only. Yes, airplane bombers could come in all colors. But I do propose that some deserve more scrutiny than others.

What I object to is the equal treatment philosophy we now employ, in the name of PC, lest someone's feelings get hurt and they'll sue. That is stupid.

____________________

StatyPolly:

BTW, an interesting line from this poll.

Now, thinking about immigration…
Q32 Would you say that immigration helps the United States more than it hurts it, OR immigration hurts the
United States more than it helps it?

Asked of Hispanic/Latino

Helps more than it hurts .... 58
Hurts more than it helps .... 32

Does that mean 32% of Hispanics will vote GOP?

The last time it was asked of Hispanics in Jun 07, the answer was 69/21, so the trend is not your friend, if you were hoping this issue will be a huge boost in Nov or later..

____________________

Uchenna Oguekwe:

SO, the American people like the AZ immigration law, but also think it will lead to racial profiling. Are they saying they are ok with that? Also, did you see the break down of the demographics to this poll? It was like over 75% white and the rest polled were minority. I don't know about you, but I don't think that is a decent representation of our population. Not sure about the reasoning on this. Also, there is a noticeable up swing in Obama's numbers and in the tea party negatives.

____________________

tjampel:

"Let me see if I understand the liberal mind correctly. Violating the law is OK if you are a minority? Laws only have to be obeyed if you are a rich, old, white guy, or anyone else who is foolish enough to be conservative. Am I reading you guys right?"

When you are shown facts, you say you don't care about facts; instead you make personal attacks in the form of "you people", referencing my "liberal mind" at work, etc. You make these generalizations based on absolutely nothing that I said in my post.

Point to any word or phrase in my post that says or implies that I think that illegals should be allowed to violate the law. I've stated that LEGALS shouldn't be harassed because of their ethnicity. If saying that is beyond the pail for a poster on pollster.com; if that's "fighting words" for you, I have little else to discuss with such a person.

As for rich old white people find any mention of them in any of my posts. If I haven't why do you mention it? To show that you are really a "fact-free" poster? Please address my posts civilly and stick to facts and issues that have actually been raised in them; we might actually have an intelligent dialog.

____________________

Stillow:

Racial profiling is an ABSOLUTE MUST in law encofrcment and shoudl be used to combat terrorism and domestic crimes. If a black dude breaks into your house, kills your wife and kidnaps your kids...do you call the cops and not tell them it was a black male? The cops then use that information to start keeping an eye out for a black male fitting that description. Or are you libs going to claim you would just say "A human being entered my home, killed my wife and kidnapped my kids. I cannot provide you gender or race in an effort to not hurt anyones feelings."

Give me a flippin break. if white males were blowing up planes, I would have absolutely zero problem if I had to go thru an extra layer of security. Becuase it would make sense to do that.

If a woman stole my car I would call the police and tell them a crazy woman just stole my car....the police then use that info to profile.

The #1 group causing illegal immigration which I personally view as a HUGE and probably deadly security risk....because if millions of migrant workers can cross the border at will....do you crzy liberals think that hihgly trained al queda terrorists carrying God knows what cannot cross too? Anyway, the #1 group is coming from Mexico.

Phoenix is now the kidnapping capital of the universe....drug smuggling is way up, innocent arizona ranchers are being murdered by illegals running thru their lands.

This is a security issue...we do not have the convenience to be all touchy feely. If we were at war with blonde haired blue eyed German dudes then I would expect our federal and state g'ments to keep a little closer eye on them.

This hyper sensitive crap you lefties engage is will get us all killed.

There is a legal process for immigrating to this country....if you do not like that process, fine, then change it. But we cannot allow illegal immigration to continue and those who have broken our laws cannot be rewarded. Without laws we have no soeciety.

It makes no damn sense for little old ladies to be yanked out of line at airports for extra random screening when 99.9 percent of terrorists attacking us right now on airplanes are middle eastern males. If it was white males doing this crap, then you bet your ass I would expect the authroities to look at white males more closely.

Racial profiling is not racist, its using useful infromation about a person or persons you are looking for.

Now, maybe one of you liberal scan tell me if a white male broke in to your home and killed your wife you would not expect the police to start searching for ONLY white males....go ahead and tell me that....tell me you would not give the skin color of the person who did it. You bet your arse you would and for damn good reason. Because its useful info.

In AZ, you cannot be stopped just because your brown, but if you are stopped you have to show identification...well guess what? SO DO I. You have to show a valid form of ID. If you can't....I don't care what color you are, the police should make sure you are here legally. I would expect nothing less.....you libs need to decide if you want to be a nation of laws or a nation of anarchy.

____________________

StatyPolly:

A couple responses here seem really devastating to the Dems chances in Nov.

Q8a/b How much of the time do you trust the government in Washington..

Almost never7 ................................... 31

They have the trend going back all the way to 1958, and the "almost never" never got over 7% until late last year.

The other one:

Q16 In general, do you think that it is better for the same political party to control both the Congress and the
presidency..

Same party 31
Diff paries 62

____________________

tjampel:

StatyPoly

We both clearly fly a lot and neither wants to go down. I want the best possible security measures in place. But I don't think the next terrorist on a major flight (300-400 people) will be semitic looking at all. It would be a foolish thing to do. I am talking about the next carefully planned and coordinated attacks which we know will come in the next year or two or three.

I am not even sure it will come on a plane; it may come in the next glass of water you drink, for all I know; but if it does come on a plane or multiple planes, expect the person(s) committing it to be someone whom you do NOT fear at all, not the guy with the beard and demonic look who looks nervous.

The key to stopping these attacks, the ONLY measure that will prove effective, is improved collection of data and coordination and cooperation between competing agencies to implement various lists, either no-fly, or enhanced screening; they have to work together; it's been like herding cats; they all need a major kick in the ass. I think Brennan is doing a good job.

____________________

Bigmike:

tj

That was not meant to be aimed at you personally. The only part that was aimed at you was the first paragraph. That your facts really don't mean anything to me. This is not some HS debate nor am I preparing a bibliography for my term paper. I can google with the best of them and throw a million facts at you that support my side. Why bother. My guess is no one on the other side is going to change their mind.

Point to anything I wrote that says anyone should be harassed because of their ethnicity. I merely stated that public opinion is moving against illegal immigration because of govt inaction.

I am not fighting with anyone. I posted what I posted and there are those on here who accuse me of racism and doing the bidding of my corporate masters. You are probably right that I should ignore the fools.

____________________

StatyPolly:

TJ,

I don't disagree with you on your major points. Although, surprisingly to me too, terrorists are still bend on blowing up planes using explosives carried by young middle-eastern and south and central asian males. Only the details of execution get tweaked. According to all the intelligence reports I hear on the news. It's just not that easy to recruit suicide bombers elsewhere.

My main beef is with the "lets treat everyone equally, so we don't hurt anyone's feeling" approach. It is one that is detrimental to the safety of all. Including those whose feeling may be spared, at the cost of their lives. Not smart.

____________________

StatyPolly:

Excellent points, Stillow!

Irrefutable.

____________________

Stillow:

Liberals racially profile all the damn time with their programs like affirmative action or racial quotes in colleges, etc. Police do it, we all do it in every aspect in life. If a woman is robbed by a white male, usually the police will go round up 6 or 7 white males who generall fit the description she gave and who looked suspicious and then she will have to go identify them from a line up. Are the libs going to tell me that is wrong? That perhaps the white guys in the lineup who didn't commit that crime should have the right to sue now for racism? Or some form of discrimination...afterall there only crime was being a white male in this instance.

So it really ticks me off that these liberals play games with the security of the country why they sit around and try to get in touch with there feelings. I don't want them playing around with the seucrity of my country why they try to bring some kind of meaning to their lives.

Profiling of all types is used every day by everyone....its not racist, sexist or anything else....its making use of obvious ifnromation. If you get pulled over in ZA, then show a damn valid ID, if you dont have one, no matter your color the police should do whatever it is they do to make sure your not wanted somewhere, checks for warrants, check to make sure your a citizen, etc....this is common sense stuff.

____________________

Shannon,Dallas,Texas:

75% of those polled where Caucasian. That about says it all.

We just can't go down this path. When the majority is in the minority, the loss of liberty is going to be realized.

Even if every illegal immigrant is located and returned to their country of origin, there are enough legal immigrants to change the demographics of this country in the next 20 years.

The whole 2050 analysis is a joke. In most of the largest states, the current minority will be the majority within 10 to 20 years, i.e. Texas, FL, CA, NY . . . and so on.

The days when the US Senate is 90% male and 90% Caucasian are numbered.

You had better hope that those in power don't use the same rationale that we use today: national security.

Every liberty we have will be viewed through a tainted prism of racial, and gender profiling.

____________________

tjampel:

Stillow:

Wasn't there a big outcry in 1993 when Bill Clinton proposed national ID card, which would make it possible to track potential criminals based on past records?

Weren't Republicans those who protested most strongly?

Seems like you'd be down with this today?

____________________

Field Marshal:

Stillow and Statypolly, you are a fresh breathe of sanity in this sea of crazy. This whole thread and the lies the left throw out there about Mexican-Americans being asked to show their papers is why i stated that Goebbels line on the other thread. Some people are just too gullible to be allowed to vote. They will believe whatever the media tells them to believe.

The current law prohibits racial profiling which will make it ineffective. They NEED to profile because now, no Mexican - Americans will be stopped. The PC garbage is out of hand in this country. We now kick kids out of school for wearing American flag t-shirts? The Fort Hood shooter got through because of PC crap. Now, AZ law enforcement will be afraid to ask a hispanic person for proof of citizenship for fear of being reprimanded for racial profiling which is against the law.

The whole whining and crying by the left is just a diversionary tactic meant to enthuse their base and deflect the anger of Americans upset with just about everything the Dems and Obama have done since Jan '09. The made up anger about this law being racist is just the catalyst to do it. Deep down, most Americans aren't dumb enough to believe the lefts lies about this law. THANK GOD.

____________________

tjampel:

Field Marshal: So you DO favor a National ID card for all that must be carried at all times by everyone as proposed by President Clinton and opposed by the GOP (and some Dems too, I think). It will verify residency status and will connect to police and terrorist databases? This will do the trick, no? Tell us if you favor it. If not please tell us why you oppose making everyone carry ID to help keep the country safe?

____________________

Thaddeus:

Taking info on a suspect is not racial profiling and you know it. Saying the majority of drug users are white, so stopping every white person to see if they have any drugs on them is racial profiling. And while we're at it , "they" are not "illegal." Nothing about their identity is illegal, they may have done someone thing illegal, thus would they would be a criminal.

And which ID would you like them to carry? A drivers license? Sorry, doesn't prove citizenship...So now every American must carry proof of citizenship, which is Birth certificate, passport, or naturalization papers? Or is it only the Latinos that need to? Otherwise they can be detained until such proof is provided? What a great way to treat one's own citizens.

So if it is the federal gov't issue, how come you don't have any anger that Repubs are blocking anything from happening on the front to try and fix it? It's next on the agenda...how about engaging in comprise so these things are needed?

____________________

Field Marshal:

The reason the GOP did not favor it was because the Clinton National ID card had plans for computer chips for tracking and including information about health, tax records, and employment. This is what the GOP, and i, am against. Are you against that as well?

The drivers license should be your ID card. However, many states now give licenses to drive to illegals for a reason i have yet to understand.

I am for a state ID card without information on it. I am also in favor of allowing only citizens to be able to drive on our roads. In Colorado, non-citizens are 19 times more likely, to cause an accident and 20% of all fatal accidents are caused by a non-legal person according to AAA Colorado.

Are you in favor of a national ID card? How about open borders?

____________________

Thaddeus:

I'm personally fine with a some kind of national id method, we already have it as a passport, but it's individually expensive to apply and not required currently.

Other than the computer chip part, I don't see how that is any different then your SS# which is used for all of those things and more. And much less secure. But that was in Clinton times, the last effort by Bush and McCain failed, and the current one's going no where fast, and I don't believe they have contained this computer chip.

It would be quite a blow to the economy to ban all non-citizens from driving on our roads. We'd have loads of drivers at the boarders waiting to switch out the Mexican and Canadian truck drivers, not to mention the hit to tourism. Where in the world would you want to travel (out-side) US if you could rent a car? It would drive fisherman and hunters crazy in MN, WI, ND to not be able to drive 30 miles across the boarder to their favorite fishing hole...

____________________

seg:

Apparently, no exchange of opinion here can be free of liberal accusations or insinuations of racism attributed to the conservative commenters. The Conservatives hotly deny it and are disgusted with liberals for using the accusation to avoid dealing with the issue at hand.

The same happens in almost evey blog forum, and I find it both tedious and tendentious.

I will state my beliefs and support one of them: the accusations are all true. Every conservative here is a racist. More importantly, every liberal/progressive is also a racist. The truth is that only the severely mentally retarded are NOT extremely conscious of race and have opinions that are colored by race, consciously or unconsciously.

A recent study found that children 3 years old and older universally identified apparent race as a central, defining characteristic of identity. This was true of children who were white, black, and Asian.

The researchers also found that in the presence of their parents, all of the children were inhibited in expressing what to them appeared to be obvious facts. They were inhibited because all parents (especially whites) drill into the children not to make embarassing observations, which includes not only anatomical facts but anything that shows consciousness of race.

To the horror and cringing embarassment of their parents, children of elitest liberals showed absolutely no difference from all other children.

Frankly, I will not believe any liberal contributor, black or white, who claims that they are not more afraid of black men than Asian or white men. After all, the great Jesse Jackson said in a speech to blacks that he was, because he was a rational being.

White liberal intellectuals often patronize blacks unmercifully, as I think you will find most blacks are acutely aware. It is much easier for conservatives to see this behavior for what it is because they generally do not suffer from excesses of white guilt (and no, absence of such guilt does not qualify one as a racist).

Many conservatives point out the liberal white guilt phenomenon. In my experience, it is very real. I could applaud it if liberals only applied it to questioning their own motivations. Applying it to accuse others of their own secret guilty impulses is both cowardly and hypocritical. It also short-circuits discussions about race that might actually be useful.

____________________

tjampel:

Stillow:

"99.9 percent of terrorists attacking us right now on airplanes are middle eastern males."

This statement is false.

Look at attacks and attempted attacks for the past few years on airplanes

There have been at least 3 attempts against US flights in the past 3 years; please feel free to document further if I missed anything:

Richard Reed (Mr. Shoe Bomber) was racially mixed... part black (Jamaican) and part white English

The underwear bomber was 100 black African.

In 2008 a Jamaican named Kevin Brown was caught with bomb-making materials while trying to board a plan.

Those are the most recent cases. Feel free to supplement these with others.

Let's see "99.9%" Middle Eastern? Try 0.00% Middle Eastern

Also Jihad Jane....middle eastern or blond American?

If you want to just make up facts there are plenty of echo chambers for you to go to. If you are going to post here why not at least check your facts. We're supposed to be people who care about facts and percentages. Do you? If you care, why post erroneous facts?

____________________

Uchenna Oguekwe:

I love how some on here feel racial profiling is a must to fight terrorism. Many serial killers are white male, does this mean all white males are serial killers? And we know that there are no terrorist within Al Qaida that are American born and white. Oh wait that's right, one of Osama Bin Laden's top advisers is a white American born jihadist.

____________________

Shannon,Dallas,Texas:

@Thaddeus

"Saying the majority of drug users are white, so stopping every white person to see if they have any drugs on them is racial profiling. And while we're at it , "they" are not "illegal." Nothing about their identity is illegal, they may have done someone thing illegal, thus would they would be a criminal."

I don't know who you were referring to when you wrote "they". Either way, you can't assume anyone is illegal based upon appearances and that's what the law is mandating that police do. No one should be presumed to be a criminal based on their race or ethnicity. There has to be something a little more definitive that might give an officer cause to suspect that a crime has occurred.

____________________

Thaddeus:

Shannon- I was addressing the tendency of people to say things like, "many states now give licenses to drive to illegals for a reason I have yet to understand." People who are in the country with out documents have done something illegal, but it does not make them as people "illegal." As far as I know "illegal" is not a check box on any identification form. Those people that have entered the country with out documents and are thus in the country illegally are a small portion of the Latinos that live in the country. I know of no way to differentiate the the two status's visually looking at people walking down the street, and believe that if legally the presumption is switched to needing to prove you're a citizen to any law enforcement person at anytime or you can be arrested, would be unconstitutional.

____________________



Post a comment




Please be patient while your comment posts - sometimes it takes a minute or two. To check your comment, please wait 60 seconds and click your browser's refresh button. Note that comments with three or more hyperlinks will be held for approval.

MAP - US, AL, AK, AZ, AR, CA, CO, CT, DE, FL, GA, HI, ID, IL, IN, IA, KS, KY, LA, ME, MD, MA, MI, MN, MS, MO, MT, NE, NV, NH, NJ, NM, NY, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, RI, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VT, VA, WA, WV, WI, WY, PR